How long can EA get away w/ the same basic engine - 10 yrs, 20 yrs, 50 yrs?

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by cman321

EA football games appear to be using the same basic movement schemes (no gang tackling, push tackles, suction blocking, etc) at least since madden 2001 and really I think the engine goes way back into the ps1 era...... We have seen madden next gen and we have the same basic engine. EA has told us that the engine won't change for next gen (another 5-6 years). That would already put the same basic engine at over 10 years old. I wouldn't put it past EA to NEVER change the engine. Not even in 20 years. The Masses will still buy up their crap (couple of new marketing features each year) and EA will get away with their low development cost, maximum port mentality. Sometimes I wish EA would just go bankrupt. BTW i haven't bought an EA game since the NFL cout de tat. If EA makes an actual good game, I just buy it used.

You can always tell when EA's upcoming football titles have been announced and the gameplay and graphics have been somewhat revealed, because then you get a thread similar to this.

Look, the 2k series is gone for a few years. get over it

[Juggernaut XX]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I have to disagree with that somewhat. I agree with you that EA is going to do what it's going to do, but having a legit competitor in 2K did sort of guide what those improvements would be. For example, they tried to improve the OL in Madden - the engine is limited, but I think in large part that was because it was being done so much better in 2K. Same with presentation. The sidelines in 2K4 were great - next thing you know in Madden 2005, there's more attention to the sidelines. I don't think it was sales that really made EA Canada commit to changing Triple Play to what would become MVP - Triple Play was likely the best selling title at the time. Having so many other baseball games out that were doing things so much better almost forced them to do something. EASports has established itself to the degree that it's games will sell almost regardless of their quality. That's why I say this focus on stadiums and frills in next gen is ridiculous - build a good foundation and it'll make for a great game down the line. Less flash now for more substance later. People give EA more leeway than they would any other developer - it's not like their sales would suffer greatly. They squandered a great opportunity to reboot the series and get people excited about it again, instead of just crossing fingers and hoping for the best.

Great post. I still advocate a Madden 07/08 boycott if there are no real gameplay improvements this year.

[rudyjuly2]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

Look, the 2k series is gone for a few years. get over it

As sad as that is, its true. My beef with the 2K fanbase is that 2K5 is now considered to be the best football game of all time while Madden never improves and sits on their ***. I'm only loyal to the best game and both 2K5 and Madden 2005 were mediocre imo. I would have loved to see 2K6 but it ain't happening.

I'm sorry but while I loved 2K4, 2K5 had major issues including terrible, terrible CPU QB AI. As for Madden never improving anything, after 6 years of making games VC/2K never even implemented a global depth chart in their games. Player editing was still lousy compared to Madden but they get a free pass despite six full years of games for some reason. There were a lot of things to like, namely the presentation and player interaction, but 2K5 was far from perfect.

[Herbsinator]

Quote: Originally Posted by Juggernaut XX

Great post. I still advocate a Madden 07/08 boycott if there are no real gameplay improvements this year.

The only ones who would be punished by a hardcore gamer boycott would be the hardcore gamers.

[Juggernaut XX]

Quote: Originally Posted by rudyjuly2

As sad as that is, its true. My beef with the 2K fanbase is that 2K5 is now considered to be the best football game of all time while Madden never improves and sits on their ***. I'm only loyal to the best game and both 2K5 and Madden 2005 were mediocre imo. I would have loved to see 2K6 but it ain't happening. I'm sorry but while I loved 2K4, 2K5 had major issues including terrible, terrible CPU QB AI. As for Madden never improving anything, after 6 years of making games VC/2K never even implemented a global depth chart in their games. Player editing was still lousy compared to Madden but they get a free pass despite six full years of games for some reason. There were a lot of things to like, namely the presentation and player interaction, but 2K5 was far from perfect.

For the most part, that is the hard to swallow truth. I am also a football fan who does not pledge an allegiance with EA or Sega. But the truth is that 2K5 offered a better overall footbal game experience than Madden 05 and 06.

Hell, If Martha Stewart created a realistic Sim football game, I would buy it and watch her cooking show

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I have to disagree with that somewhat. I agree with you that EA is going to do what it's going to do, but having a legit competitor in 2K did sort of guide what those improvements would be. For example, they tried to improve the OL in Madden - the engine is limited, but I think in large part that was because it was being done so much better in 2K. Same with presentation. The sidelines in 2K4 were great - next thing you know in Madden 2005, there's more attention to the sidelines.

Did ESPN have some influence on Madden? Yeah but they didn't make MORE improvements, they just kinda ripped off some of the things ESPN did that many would say is fluff anyways, stuff like the sidelines you cite for example. Not saying fluff is bad because I want Bobby Carpenters long hair in Madden and I'm not gonna get it and that is fluff that doesn't affect gameplay but still...

And if Madden would have really been "pushed harder" as you imply then why were so many people still making so many complaints during the ESPN years? If you look at Madden during the ESPN years yes it did improve but it was rather subtle and many improvements were just minor ones or "gimmicks" as many imply (not that gimmicks are all bad IMO) just like it is now and for many people they simply switched to ESPN.

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I don't think it was sales that really made EA Canada commit to changing Triple Play to what would become MVP - Triple Play was likely the best selling title at the time.

Well now there you are flat out wrong because it was sales. The Triple Play series was getting hammered by High Heat and the other baseball games at the time and was barely breaking even money wise when they ditched it and went to MVP. Heck as much as I usually buy alot of EA games in addition to other competitors just to check them out, even I learned to quit buying Triple Play because it was garbage. I don't think I bought it the last 2 years it was made.

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Having so many other baseball games out that were doing things so much better almost forced them to do something.

Again not true because even EA admitted sales was the motivating factor. If Triple Play had kept selling they would have never shelved it in favor of MVP.

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

EASports has established itself to the degree that it's games will sell almost regardless of their quality. That's why I say this focus on stadiums and frills in next gen is ridiculous - build a good foundation and it'll make for a great game down the line. Less flash now for more substance later. People give EA more leeway than they would any other developer - it's not like their sales would suffer greatly. They squandered a great opportunity to reboot the series and get people excited about it again, instead of just crossing fingers and hoping for the best.

I agree with you here.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

Did ESPN have some influence on Madden? Yeah but they didn't make MORE improvements, they just kinda ripped off some of the things ESPN did that many would say is fluff anyways, stuff like the sidelines you cite for example.

It wasn't all "fluff". Bump and Run in Madden has always been depicted horribly in Madden; it was just way too effective. In 2005 or 2006 they went more with an animation that was similiar to what was in NFL2K4. But by then in 2K5, VC had moved on to giving you the option of inside/outside coverage. I think last year's OL play in Madden where the lineman try to "turn" a defender was an attempt to address OL play because they were being hammered on the suction blocking. Post play celebrations. Revamping the audible system. The list could go on and on. It's not like 2K didn't change things itself because of Madden (directional control; play calling screen, etc.). I just don't think you can say both games didn't affect each other in a substantial way. The only reason we sit here talking about improved player interaction is a direct result of 2K5 - if there was no 2K5, we wouldn't know any better. There wouldn't be an expectation of halftime shows, better replay systems, etc.

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

And if Madden would have really been "pushed harder" as you imply then why were so many people still making so many complaints during the ESPN years? If you look at Madden during the ESPN years yes it did improve but it was rather subtle and many improvements were just minor ones or "gimmicks" as many imply (not that gimmicks are all bad IMO) just like it is now and for many people they simply switched to ESPN.

I don't think the majority of people chose one game or the other. Many (including myself) brought both games. Or brought Fever and/or Gameday. I think the big thing with 2K5 was exposure, as many people were exposed to things they hadn't been before when just playing Madden.

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

Well now there you are flat out wrong because it was sales. The Triple Play series was getting hammered by High Heat and the other baseball games at the time and was barely breaking even money wise when they ditched it and went to MVP.

I wasn't trying to state anything as fact; I wasn't even buying baseball games then. I know High Heat was critically acclaimed, but I didn't know it was all that popular - I still have a hard time picturing an EASports game being outsold. What happened to High Heat then? There have only been two MVP games; if it were really popular I doubt a series could be done in in such a short period of time. Did the company fold?