360 "quick sand" defense, anyone? (long)

[plasticbeast]

I played as auburn last night online, and I thought their defense was the best part about the team I won the 28 to 7. The other guy didn't score till the 4th.
I am by far not the greatest, but the those safties and corners for auburn really shut down the passing game.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by mcculac

The scrambling QB is more of an issue this year than it has ever been. When I am playing Penn State, Washington State, and UCLA and their QBs are rolling to the sidelines without so much as a worry about my two defensive ends (one a 92 and the other an 88), there is a problem.

I think this will be the case until EA puts moving blocks into the game. This problem is an extension of suction blocking.

In real life, when a run goes to the outside, or a QB rolls out, the d-linemen all move in that direction, and the o-lineman sort of ride them where they want to go. In NCAA/Madden, once you're engaged, the block is stuck in that spot(it can move vertically, but not laterally) until the block is defeated or the defender is put on his ***.

So, unless you get your DE outside BEFORE he engages with the tackle, forget about containing unless you do it with a LB.


As for getting outrun by TEs, like Daudr said, it was probably a fatigue issue. If your opponent was rolling out and passing every play, your Dbs were probably dead tired.

And I haven't had a problem defending the corner route except when getting caught in a bad defense. I find that man coverage with both safeties helping over the top works well. Quaters works also works well. But every defense has its weaknesses. Defenses that are good against corner routes don't work well against the run.

[Deltron]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

I think this will be the case until EA puts moving blocks into the game. This problem is an extension of suction blocking. In real life, when a run goes to the outside, or a QB rolls out, the d-linemen all move in that direction, and the o-lineman sort of ride them where they want to go. In NCAA/Madden, once you're engaged, the block is stuck in that spot(it can move vertically, but not laterally) until the block is defeated or the defender is put on his ***. So, unless you get your DE outside BEFORE he engages with the tackle, forget about containing unless you do it with a LB. As for getting outrun by TEs, like Daudr said, it was probably a fatigue issue. If your opponent was rolling out and passing every play, your Dbs were probably dead tired. And I haven't had a problem defending the corner route except when getting caught in a bad defense. I find that man coverage with both safeties helping over the top works well. Quaters works also works well. But every defense has its weaknesses. Defenses that are good against corner routes don't work well against the run.

The key is getting Dline containment in order to make it more realistic.

But the game is messed up when in comes to the AI defending scrambling. The defenders who are playing a zone literally don't react at all to the QB until a second after he crosses the LOS. In fact they almost get out of his way. This happens even when there is no WR in the area. They are basically programmed only to cover a zone, and they stand there until the play becomes a running play. Meanwhile you are waving to them as you run up the sideline.

They need to fix this for next year, hopefully it's not in Madden.

[mcculac]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

I think this will be the case until EA puts moving blocks into the game. This problem is an extension of suction blocking. In real life, when a run goes to the outside, or a QB rolls out, the d-linemen all move in that direction, and the o-lineman sort of ride them where they want to go. In NCAA/Madden, once you're engaged, the block is stuck in that spot(it can move vertically, but not laterally) until the block is defeated or the defender is put on his ***. So, unless you get your DE outside BEFORE he engages with the tackle, forget about containing unless you do it with a LB. As for getting outrun by TEs, like Daudr said, it was probably a fatigue issue. If your opponent was rolling out and passing every play, your Dbs were probably dead tired. And I haven't had a problem defending the corner route except when getting caught in a bad defense. I find that man coverage with both safeties helping over the top works well. Quaters works also works well. But every defense has its weaknesses. Defenses that are good against corner routes don't work well against the run.

I am beginning to definitely think fatigue is an issue. I had never really considered that until someone brought it up. Question: Is there any fatigue in the Tug of War mini-games? My brother (LSU) and I (Auburn) played the Tug of War mini game for literally 4 hours straight the other day and none of the problems I mentioned from onilne (slow ends, slow safeties, not tackling) ever reared their ugly heads in the Tug of War. I was also going up against a team faster than any team that I have played online. I guess I will just have to start watching that online and spelling some players. Thanks fellas.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by i3man

QBs that roll out ARE NOT a problem to defend. You call the right play you'll stop it. If he's doing every down even better.

I agree the corner route can be stopped. But the suction effect of the blocks make it very difficult to contain a QB.

Also, most strategies used in real life to defend scrambling QBs are not available in the game. What a lot of teams will do nowadays is passively rush with the DEs, not trying to put pressure on him, only trying to keep everyone in position to make a play if the QB tries to run. And they play a zone behind that with everyone paying special attention to the QB. Or they'll play man behind it and spy with a LB. This essential strategy can't be duplicated in the game.

Sure, you can blitz from the outside, and that might work, but it's the opposite of what works best in real life, and it triggers the QB to run instead of keeping him in the pocket like the above stategy tries to do.

Guys like Vincent Young & Micheal Vick beat people with their athletic ability, not because defenses are always out of position. When you see Young/Vick highlights, they usually break a few tackles or evade a few defenders... defenders that were where they were supposed to be. Because of the lack of defensive options in the game, those types of QBs make plays because defenders are nowhere to be found, and don't react realistically.

All that to say, yes, scrambling QBs can be stopped, but with very unconventional strategy... strategy just as arcadey as an offense running the same play all game.

[Daudr]

Quote: Originally Posted by mcculac

I am beginning to definitely think fatigue is an issue. I had never really considered that until someone brought it up. Question: Is there any fatigue in the Tug of War mini-games? My brother (LSU) and I (Auburn) played the Tug of War mini game for literally 4 hours straight the other day and none of the problems I mentioned from onilne (slow ends, slow safeties, not tackling) ever reared their ugly heads in the Tug of War. I was also going up against a team faster than any team that I have played online. I guess I will just have to start watching that online and spelling some players. Thanks fellas.

You only run one play at a time in the Tug of War games, so it doesn't affect you.

[UNC_Pete]

I played a game against my nephew. I was UNC he was FIU? The QB had an 85 speed and he was unstoppable! He would rollout every play! I don't play hum vs hum as much as I do Dynasty vs the cpu so its fine with me, just kind of stinks, but this has been a problem forever in all football games.

[ausar72]

You know, I played my brother last night and I was becoming frustrated with his rolling out the QB, but I realized that i need to UP my defense, get some containment going and punish the QB.

You can't always blame the game developer and the AI. Sometimes YOU call the wrong play. As for the players that run the same play all game. Shame on you for not stopping it. I agree I feel bad when another player exploits weaknessses in my gmaeplan and playcalling etc... but that's part of the game. You win some and you are definitely gonna lose some.