Changes that need to happen - Gameplay

[NJL22]

Made a thread a few days back that addressed general problems with the game that should be changed(that likely won't) in order to make 2010 a decent game.

And here is another thread full of problems. This one focuses on actual gameplay.

Sorry if I turn into a prick. I actualy try to be civilized while typing this, but the fact that EA makes many millions of dollars off of this half-assed product really aggravates me.

1. Why is there only one blocking animation? You ask any NFL/NCAA coach what the most important aspect of football is and they will all tell you that it is blocking. Offensive line vs defensive line. A strong group makes a bad team look great.

There needs to be 20+ animations involving blocking. Hand fights, drive blocks, turn blocks, scoop blocks, better double teams etc.

2. Why does every single defensive linemen IMMEDIATELY disengage and start running full speed down field the second the ball carrier gets behind them. This problem stems from the 1 animation factor. When there is only thing determining their state, blocked or unblocked, then so much to the game is left out.

Watch real football. Guys are off balance every play. There is NEVER a stalemate to the extent that there is in NCAA/Madden. All it takes is one little hit to make it so a defender can't turn and run like they do in this game. Fix this please.

3. Kind of stemming from 2, but I feel it needs addressed: Why can a defender come off a block and instantly be running full speed and have full control over himself. If my tailback runs up the middle in a decent gap, then the dt that magically shed his block should not be able to "hit stick" me off my feet on the DTs first step off the block.

4. Why is pursuit so horrible. Just go into game and watch defenders pursuit on a run play.

I pitch right. Linebacker makes a telepathic read(another problem on its own) and gets into the backfield. I cut outside hard and he takes about a 45 degree angle from the line perpendicular from the sideline and runs downfield. I cut it back up because another defender was outside and the same linebacker immediately turns around and runs parallel to the sideline to meet me. And every 180 degree turn he did was done with superhuman start/stop/agility. No time spent changing directions. Looked like a bouncing ball. Horrible pursuit logic. Truly disgusting.

I could go on and on and on and on regarding pursuit in this game. It is truly horrible.

5. Why are there no goalline/short yardage animations? I understand EA only likes spending 25 dollars total on development every year for this game, but still, no attention at all?

6. CAN EA SPORTS PLEASE WATCH A SINGLE FOOTBALL GAME AND DERIVE THEIR TACKLE ANIMATIONS FROM THERE?

I don't understand.... Who does these tackle animations? 12 year olds?

I'm going to assume that, as game designers, EA employees have a SLIGHT understanding of physics.

So we set up a situation.
Linebacker is 240 pounds. He is running 15 MPH West.
Ballcarrier is 200 pounds. He is running 18 MPH North.
Linebacker decides to hit the ball carrier as hard as possible and not wrap up(hit stick.) He dives at ballcarrier with all his force.

Ballcarrier takes the impact and just shrugs off the linebacker as if it were a pillow.

WTF EA? Why is a hit stick animation met with the hit sticker getting knocked on his ***? I learned that this can't possibly happen in 7th grade. Where the hell were you?

A hit stick needs to either be met with force and provide a draw, provide a legit big hit (PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop creating your own animations, copy animations that you see on TV) or completely miss.

Also, the hit stick animation where the defender puts a shoulder into the ball carrier and the bc does a flip on his back while the defender stays firmly on his feet and doesn't suffer any effect from the collision needs to go. Again, horrible understanding of the physics of football.

7. More on tackle animations. There needs to be more getting low and form tackling. Every single play in this game involves two players colliding while standing almost straight up and then some fancy dance to the floor.

Watch any handoff up the middle. The result is always the rb getting low and trying to drive his shoulder and a defender getting low trying to form tackle or just throw the defender off balance. A few times a season you find a "knock the ball carrier on his back" type situation.

Again, watch football. I could go on and on and on and on but I don't feel like doing the work for EA.

8. The run blocking system is just...wrong. In real football things cluster up. People get knocked down(not pancaked, they fall together and it is a situation where two big men lose balance. Not one getting knocked up in the air then down on their ***.)

Disengagement where the defender just turns away from the lineman while the lineman sits there and doesn't react doesn't happen. Linemen are capable of logical thought and movement too.

Why is there no punishment for running full speed and then turning around to continue running full speed? Why doesn't anybody strafe? Why doesn't anybody break down into form?

Watch football.

9. Passing game. There needs to be perfection in this. There can't be teleporting defenders. There can't be physics defying linebackers who stop moving one way, turn around, travel 4 yards in two steps while going backwards and then jump to catch a pick that they were nowhere near. It just really destroys the passing game and it is a disgrace to anybody who understands how to read a real defense.

I played a game where I would throw the ball to real life open receivers as often as possible. I threw 7 picks. Most of them were to super human linebackers in zone.

10. WHY DO DEFENDERS KNOW WHERE THE BALL IS AT ALL TIMES. Deep routes in this game are just utterly pathetic. DB that doesn't know where the ball is at all jumps 3 feet in the air and, without looking, defelcts the ball with one hand. Does anybody at EA know how hard it is to get a blind deflection. An arm is about 3 inches across. A receiver can catch a ball in a 10 foot horizontal range. Yet a simple push of "y" without looking at the ball yields 100% deflection rate.

11. General critique of passing game;
- WRs need to be more active towards getting the ball. Defenders go up and after, receivers sit back and wait. This is so backwards that it is comical.
- DBs and WRs need to be aware of each other while the ball is in the air. If the WR sees the DB in a better position to get the ball, then he absolutely 100% needs to go after the ball or try to stop the DB from catching it.
There should never be a situation where one on one coverage yields a WR moving downfield and attempting to catch the ball at his waste with his body while the DB tries to jump and catch the ball above his head.
- DBs need to stick to the receivers much better.

Passing in this game is basically "find somebody wide open and hope for no superman dbs." One on one coverage is often a win for the offense in real life. Recievers play receiver because of their ball skills. They are very good at beating the person they are covering once the ball is in the air. Make it that way instead of this backwards version in the current game.

Short version
- WR need MUCH better ball skills.
- DB need worse ball skills.
- DBs need better coverage skills.
- Defenders need significantly less ball awareness.
- Both DB and WR need better awareness of each others positions.

- CPU QBs need to go through progressions. They should not be able to be aware of every reciever on the field at all times. They need to read every route and make progressions.

- Make an option to get rid of the challange feature. Nobody likes it when the game is intentionally wrong only to waste 50 seconds of our life showing us that and then fixing it. Just......dumb.

- More group tackles.

- Why are assist statistics not in the game? NFL 2k2 had assists. Pathetic.

- The exponential weighting on acceleration is way too exponential. A 89 acceleration 99 overall RB sucks. A 99 accel 75 overall RB is amazing.

- The spin move is still more of a juke move then a spin move. The spin is supposed to make you harder to grab because you are moving too quick.

More to come.

[Phobia]

All are great points and I would LOVE to see just a 1/3rd of these addressed by EA. BUT by what adam says there is just not enough time to do these things.

So lets look at what we have.

1) A developer that has the rights to the NFL

2) No interest in making vast improvements such as these. This won't sell to the millions of players who could careless about realism.

3) To costly to go back and fix all the short cuts they took in the early development of the engine they built

4) A developer with a poor group of beta tester. Most of these issues get seen and noticed by the realism crowd the very instance they turn the game on YET none of these beta testers EVER see these issues LMAO

5)Flat out don't care, If they say other wise they are flat out lying. Here is why, If you do care and you hear these complaints coming year after year after year. Don't think at some point they would go "OHHH listen guys we got to fix the lineplay, our fans really want to see this". I mean we have begged for Refs and chain gangs for years now. That is much smaller on scale than say fixing the entire AI, PLUS lineplay, PLUS AI play calling.

Wait until people finially have enough with EA's lackluster titles, example is NBA 2k9. Look at how fast LIVE became the step child. Another developer is going to step up and take EA's claim if they are not carefull. Could it be backbreaker????? We never know.

[Young J 334]

Quote: Originally Posted by NJL22

Made a thread a few days back that addressed general problems with the game that should be changed(that likely won't) in order to make 2010 a decent game. And here is another thread full of problems. This one focuses on actual gameplay. Sorry if I turn into a prick. I actualy try to be civilized while typing this, but the fact that EA makes many millions of dollars off of this half-assed product really aggravates me. 1. Why is there only one blocking animation? You ask any NFL/NCAA coach what the most important aspect of football is and they will all tell you that it is blocking. Offensive line vs defensive line. A strong group makes a bad team look great. There needs to be 20+ animations involving blocking. Hand fights, drive blocks, turn blocks, scoop blocks, better double teams etc. 2. Why does every single defensive linemen IMMEDIATELY disengage and start running full speed down field the second the ball carrier gets behind them. This problem stems from the 1 animation factor. When there is only thing determining their state, blocked or unblocked, then so much to the game is left out. Watch real football. Guys are off balance every play. There is NEVER a stalemate to the extent that there is in NCAA/Madden. All it takes is one little hit to make it so a defender can't turn and run like they do in this game. Fix this please. 3. Kind of stemming from 2, but I feel it needs addressed: Why can a defender come off a block and instantly be running full speed and have full control over himself. If my tailback runs up the middle in a decent gap, then the dt that magically shed his block should not be able to "hit stick" me off my feet on the DTs first step off the block. 4. Why is pursuit so horrible. Just go into game and watch defenders pursuit on a run play. I pitch right. Linebacker makes a telepathic read(another problem on its own) and gets into the backfield. I cut outside hard and he takes about a 45 degree angle from the line perpendicular from the sideline and runs downfield. I cut it back up because another defender was outside and the same linebacker immediately turns around and runs parallel to the sideline to meet me. And every 180 degree turn he did was done with superhuman start/stop/agility. No time spent changing directions. Looked like a bouncing ball. Horrible pursuit logic. Truly disgusting. I could go on and on and on and on regarding pursuit in this game. It is truly horrible. 5. Why are there no goalline/short yardage animations? I understand EA only likes spending 25 dollars total on development every year for this game, but still, no attention at all? 6. CAN EA SPORTS PLEASE WATCH A SINGLE FOOTBALL GAME AND DERIVE THEIR TACKLE ANIMATIONS FROM THERE? I don't understand.... Who does these tackle animations? 12 year olds? I'm going to assume that, as game designers, EA employees have a SLIGHT understanding of physics. So we set up a situation. Linebacker is 240 pounds. He is running 15 MPH West. Ballcarrier is 200 pounds. He is running 18 MPH North. Linebacker decides to hit the ball carrier as hard as possible and not wrap up(hit stick.) He dives at ballcarrier with all his force. Ballcarrier takes the impact and just shrugs off the linebacker as if it were a pillow. WTF EA? Why is a hit stick animation met with the hit sticker getting knocked on his ***? I learned that this can't possibly happen in 7th grade. Where the hell were you? A hit stick needs to either be met with force and provide a draw, provide a legit big hit (PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop creating your own animations, copy animations that you see on TV) or completely miss. Also, the hit stick animation where the defender puts a shoulder into the ball carrier and the bc does a flip on his back while the defender stays firmly on his feet and doesn't suffer any effect from the collision needs to go. Again, horrible understanding of the physics of football. 7. More on tackle animations. There needs to be more getting low and form tackling. Every single play in this game involves two players colliding while standing almost straight up and then some fancy dance to the floor. Watch any handoff up the middle. The result is always the rb getting low and trying to drive his shoulder and a defender getting low trying to form tackle or just throw the defender off balance. A few times a season you find a "knock the ball carrier on his back" type situation. Again, watch football. I could go on and on and on and on but I don't feel like doing the work for EA. 8. The run blocking system is just...wrong. In real football things cluster up. People get knocked down(not pancaked, they fall together and it is a situation where two big men lose balance. Not one getting knocked up in the air then down on their ***.) Disengagement where the defender just turns away from the lineman while the lineman sits there and doesn't react doesn't happen. Linemen are capable of logical thought and movement too. Why is there no punishment for running full speed and then turning around to continue running full speed? Why doesn't anybody strafe? Why doesn't anybody break down into form? Watch football. 9. Passing game. There needs to be perfection in this. There can't be teleporting defenders. There can't be physics defying linebackers who stop moving one way, turn around, travel 4 yards in two steps while going backwards and then jump to catch a pick that they were nowhere near. It just really destroys the passing game and it is a disgrace to anybody who understands how to read a real defense. I played a game where I would throw the ball to real life open receivers as often as possible. I threw 7 picks. Most of them were to super human linebackers in zone. 10. WHY DO DEFENDERS KNOW WHERE THE BALL IS AT ALL TIMES. Deep routes in this game are just utterly pathetic. DB that doesn't know where the ball is at all jumps 3 feet in the air and, without looking, defelcts the ball with one hand. Does anybody at EA know how hard it is to get a blind deflection. An arm is about 3 inches across. A receiver can catch a ball in a 10 foot horizontal range. Yet a simple push of "y" without looking at the ball yields 100% deflection rate. 11. General critique of passing game; - WRs need to be more active towards getting the ball. Defenders go up and after, receivers sit back and wait. This is so backwards that it is comical. - DBs and WRs need to be aware of each other while the ball is in the air. If the WR sees the DB in a better position to get the ball, then he absolutely 100% needs to go after the ball or try to stop the DB from catching it. There should never be a situation where one on one coverage yields a WR moving downfield and attempting to catch the ball at his waste with his body while the DB tries to jump and catch the ball above his head. - DBs need to stick to the receivers much better. Passing in this game is basically "find somebody wide open and hope for no superman dbs." One on one coverage is often a win for the offense in real life. Recievers play receiver because of their ball skills. They are very good at beating the person they are covering once the ball is in the air. Make it that way instead of this backwards version in the current game. Short version - WR need MUCH better ball skills. - DB need worse ball skills. - DBs need better coverage skills. - Defenders need significantly less ball awareness. - Both DB and WR need better awareness of each others positions. - CPU QBs need to go through progressions. They should not be able to be aware of every reciever on the field at all times. They need to read every route and make progressions. - Make an option to get rid of the challange feature. Nobody likes it when the game is intentionally wrong only to waste 50 seconds of our life showing us that and then fixing it. Just......dumb. - More group tackles. - Why are assist statistics not in the game? NFL 2k2 had assists. Pathetic. - The exponential weighting on acceleration is way too exponential. A 89 acceleration 99 overall RB sucks. A 99 accel 75 overall RB is amazing. - The spin move is still more of a juke move then a spin move. The spin is supposed to make you harder to grab because you are moving too quick. More to come.

great read. i couldnt agree with u more

[mgoblue678]

Actually their is two block animations, the other being blocks in the backs that aren't called(honestly how and the hell did this happen) but I agree with your post 100%.

Another thing I would like to add is how the defensive ends instead of getting up field turn inside and run directly into the blocker. If they got up field you would actually see a pocket formed.

[Young J 334]

in essence to the block in the back penaly that needs to be brought into the game, so does illegal touching. the wrs often take a step or two out of bound and come back to make a grab like nothing happened. very frustrating. i got burned alot when i seen this happening because i was sure the refs would call it yet they never did. took me 4 games to figure out that it wasnt in the game

[NJL22]

Praying for an EA response. Really want to know what EAs view is on these problems.

1. "thanks for pointing this out, we will try to implement fixes."
2. "We don't care we have the monopoly, bitches."
3. "We don't care enough, we only spend 200 dollars a year because of the monopoly. And we spend those 200 dollars on implementing mascot vs mascot games that 99% of players won't even try once."

[Young J 334]

Quote: Originally Posted by NJL22

Praying for an EA response. Really want to know what EAs view is on these problems. 1. "thanks for pointing this out, we will try to implement fixes." 2. "We don't care we have the monopoly, bitches." 3. "We don't care enough, we only spend 200 dollars a year because of the monopoly. And we spend those 200 dollars on implementing mascot vs mascot games that 99% of players won't even try once."

there should also be times were RBs slip when running behind the line. cuz u can keep ahold of turbo while running directly into your blockers. that shouldnt be allowed

[NJL22]

Quote: Originally Posted by Young J 334

there should also be times were RBs slip when running behind the line. cuz u can keep ahold of turbo while running directly into your blockers. that shouldnt be allowed

True, but I'd rather see them implement proper mechanics that are rewarding rather then frustrating.

When nothing else is real about this game, I don't want player mistakes to be real.