Getting stops on 3rd and 20+

[nmpfeiff]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bullet Sponge

I have to agree with countrydawg to an extent though. Although asking for help on stopping 4th and long is fine, the description of this guy being a cheeser I didn't find iron clad. It sounded like he ran legit plays that exploited your weaknesses. The guy may be a huge cheeser, but I'm just saying form your description it just sounded like he saw your weaknesses and went for it (which is why you're here asking for help). Rolling out is not cheese, motioning guys and throwing to the slot isn't cheese. If there is never any outside pressure on the QB then any coach would be any idiot not to have his QB roll out to buy time or even scramble for yardage. I agree going for it on 4th down all the time is cheesy. Although it's awfully risky if the opponent knows how to stop it, which you didn't. As for useful advice I'd reiterate you need some outside pressure to keep the QB in the pocket, throw in some random blitzes and press the receivers at the line.

I couldn't agree more. I said this in another thread somewhere. Is Cam Newton cheesing when he rolls out of the pocket to buy time? No he is exploiting weaknesses in the other teams. Players are doing whatever it takes to win just like in real life. Not trying to make their opponents happy. You have the same opportunity to do what your opponent does.

There are a few things that can be considered cheesing but rolling out and hitting the slot routes are not. They are all parts of football. Using the same play all game or going for it on 4th all the time is not football though.

That's just my opinion. I know everyone has a different opinion but remember it's just a game.

As for stopping on 4th and long I like to play man coverage with 2 safety's deep and rush 3 men with a linebacker spying on the QB. Then take control of the spy to hurry the QB when he rolls out.

[Bullet Sponge]

Quote: Originally Posted by nmpfeiff

There are a few things that can be considered cheesing but rolling out and hitting the slot routes are not. They are all parts of football. Using the same play all game or going for it on 4th all the time is not football though.

The only caveat I would add to that statement is, against the CPU running the same money play stuff all the time is not football because the CPU is unable to adjust and stop it. Against a human, if that person doesn't adjust to the playcalling then I don't see using the same stuff cheesy if it's working. In real life teams will run the same stuff if it's working until their opponent shows they can stop it. And a human should be able to stop someone running the same plays all the time (assuming your team isn't so overmatched it doesn't matter what they do).

[DrAnguish]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bullet Sponge

The only caveat I would add to that statement is, against the CPU running the same money play stuff all the time is not football because the CPU is unable to adjust and stop it. Against a human, if that person doesn't adjust to the playcalling then I don't see using the same stuff cheesy if it's working. In real life teams will run the same stuff if it's working until their opponent shows they can stop it. And a human should be able to stop someone running the same plays all the time (assuming your team isn't so overmatched it doesn't matter what they do).

I agree with this and have an example. I just played one of the best games I have ever had in an online dynasty (bowl game, I was the underdog by far) with a buddy of mine. We both run wide open offenses, neither of us could stop the other... I ran similar looking plays a lot... forcing him to make the decision of 'do I manually cover this guy (if so I checked down) or do I bull rush or cover the flats (if so I hit a guy in the seem). He did the same thing to me... yeah the same plays got called a lot, but you could see as the game went on that we both tried EVERYTHING to stop each other... you could literally see the chess match unfolding and it was great. Game was legit, no unrealistic play calling otherwise / or exploitation of the system or any of that crap...

(BTW I lost in 5OTs 85-83... yes five... it was 49 all at the end of regulation).

The point is it was a human versus human game, where the opponent had the opportunity to make adjustments. If either of us used this exact strategy against a CPU I'd call cheese (even on myself), because then you are just trying to exploit a programming hole and bump stats for whatever reason.

[nmpfeiff]

Human vs. human is what I was talking about. I totally agree if you are playing the cpu offline and you call the same play over and over knowing they can't adjust then it is cheesing. I just think some people are to quick to accuse people of cheesing online if they can't adjust properly and stop them.

Personally I have never accused anyone of cheesing. I have had players call the same option play the whole game and rush for 200 yards but hey it was working and I couldn't stop them. In real life a coach would keep calling it till their opponent could stop it. It was might job to find a way to stop it and not whine about cheesing and quit.

[UniversityofArizona]

Regardless of our definitions of cheese the only one that matters to the OP when he decides whether or not to quit is the definition and perception of the OP so lets focus on the part helping him to stop plays on 4th and 20ish.

As for me I have some problems stopping some specific 4th and long plays as well when a buddy of mine comes over so I would love to hear some advice as well.

[Bullet Sponge]

Quote: Originally Posted by UniversityofArizona

As for me I have some problems stopping some specific 4th and long plays as well when a buddy of mine comes over so I would love to hear some advice as well.

This might sound like a dumb question, but why are you guys specifically singling out fourth down? Don't you just want help stopping long passes? If you're somehow able to do it on downs 1-3 how is fourth any different?

[UniversityofArizona]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bullet Sponge

This might sound like a dumb question, but why are you guys specifically singling out fourth down? Don't you just want help stopping long passes? If you're somehow able to do it on downs 1-3 how is fourth any different?

Because it sounds like his friend is similar to mine and really goes for that go to play on 4th down though I must admit I got some practice stopping the play with 4 WR streaks when my buddy ran the play the almost the entire 4th quarter.

[greekgod09]

Every play has a counter play, a user audible, a way to stop it. Just because you think the play you called should stop it and fails does not make him a cheeser. You just need to find a better play/solution.

I handle long situations vs scramblers by usually blitzing my outside backers after I spread them, I also spread the lines. I play bump coverage hoping pressure can come in before his route develops. If I know a guy can beat this technique I go 3-2-6 cover 2. Sometimes I press, sometimes I don't. I user audible heavily. Maybe DE contain, maybe Saftey outside, maybe I just noticed that he never throws to his back or won't on 4th and 20 and I take that defender off the RB and user control with him. I might throw an occassional zone look in at a weird time. I evolve and change all game and keep my oponent off guard. Most the time I won't send any pressure or zone looks until critical times and downs. I certainly won't use my best plays blitzes and plays until these times.

Whenever your playing a scrambling QB always say to yourself CONTAIN. These guys usually get lost when you keep them in the pocket.