Difference Between a USER controlled DE & a CPU controlled DE

[Gotmadskillzson]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I am right there with you man, that's why I keep advocating for the "training wheels" to be taken off and don't be afraid to let gamers fail or excel based on their and the AI's utilization of player skills, ie ratings. I understand that's not for everyone and some people want those metaphoric "training wheels" so I would love to have more options and hopefully a factory optimally EA/Tiburon realistic setting. Part of my issue with User control is that the User seemingly ALWAYS has the potential to make the player better, not peak. Meaning, if I have a star DE, it should be almost a given when healthy that he will play at a high level through the AI because of his superior ratings but under User control there should be way more room for error because I can manually theoretically try anything, whether it's the best choice inherently for that player or not. The best a User should be able to achieve with a player and the best the AI can achieve with that same player, should be equal, imo.

That's the thing, they need to tune the AI to behave more like a USER controlled player would.

For example:

When a USER over throws a person, it might be by a couple of yards.
When a CPU over throws a person, it is by 20 or more yards.

I lost count how many times the CPU be in the red zone and they attempt a pass and the pass go sailing into the upper levels of the stands in the back of the end zone. And this is with CPU QBs that have a 90 throw accuracy missing that bad.

Even worse when it is a side line pass and it goes way out of bounds hitting the bench on the sidelines. In real life if a QB was that far off target he would be kicked off the team.

Same thing with Punting. CPU Punters don't ever try to pin the team at the 5 yard line. Instead they just kick it out of the end zone. Situation awareness is LACKING for the CPU. In real life if a Punter constantly did that, he would be kicked off the team.

Football is a battle for field position. No coach wants to constantly let the opposing team start off at the 20 yard line, when you had the opportunity to pin them at the 5 or 10 yard line.

[prototype561]

^Well the games I play the cpu is deadly accurate, even the lower tier Qb's. Maybe its Heisman mode but I still see a lot of robo Qb. I see cpu Qb's overthrow the ball maybe twice a game, cpu is usually above 65% passing against me.

I will agree that the cpu has no situational awareness.

[khaliib]

The other thing that dumbfounds me why the game (Madden) plays different on playable Broadcast Cam.

There seems to be a slightly better push etc... but you can still tell how scripted gameplay is.

I really hate that OL throw DL to ground animation.

What's it been Skillz, about 3+ yrs you've provided info on their ratings to help the game and they act like everything you provide is just Placebo.

That's why I don't get why some are so giddy over some extra throwing/catching animations they've injected.
The Ratings structure they use is still the same, thus everything will still be mostly scripted.

[Playmakers]

I played very little NCAA 12 after all the bugs and stuff.

But in NCAA 11 the DE's use more Finesse style pass rush moves CPU Controlled.

I also felt like the combination of Sliders + Ratings + Difficulty Level Impacted the game play much better overall in NCAA 11 as opposed to NCAA 12

There seems to be a problem with EA finding balance in certain aspects of gameplay from year to year.

For example in NCAA 09 the defensive player pursuit angles were so bad do to ratings but that allowed the actual CPU QB's to take off and run with success at times.

EA focused on fixing pursuit the preceeding years and it all but killed the CPU's ability to have success with a Mobile QB.

Certain ratings like a DE's strength rating effected the type of moves he would consistently tried to use doing a pass rush. For example a guy with 99 Finesse Move rating would hardly do a spin a move if he had great strength. There was use for the Spin Move when he could simply over power the OT instead.

But give a guy reduced strength and high ratings for Finesse pass rushing and presto you have DE's that are constantly attacking off the edge in a smarter way.

Now the level's also come into the play......one of the reason's i have stayed away from both heisman and all american level for the past few years is because those levels IMO don't capture the matchups based on players ratings the best.

Some might disagree but in NCAA 11 on a lower level i was able to unleash some many different types of animations that usually don't see in the game enough on the higher level's.

I'm talking about animations from FB's dragging defenders on their backs before stumbling forward after about 2-3 yards to defenders actually utilizing the the shoestring tackles and low hits to take down stronger players.

CPU Dive catches are seen and LB's/DB's don't always jump out of the gym when the ball is in the air. Some of these things EA will hype up as being new or improved in NCAA 13 but really some of these things were already at our disposal in years past it just required further tweaking by the USER himself.

I really hope that EA finds a great balance in NCAA 13 or makes enough improvements in gameplay with CPU AI behavior this year so that it doesn't feel as if they took a step backwards which is how i felt about NCAA 12 compaired to NCAA 11.

Last spring i was very excited and impatient waiting for NCAA 12 because of all new things EA was allegedly doing with gameplay. This year i'm approaching things with a more casual approach to expectations hoping that i'm shocked by the improvements in gameplay.

[SA1NT401]

Agreed..... But I don't think we will EVER see that this generation. Maybe by 2015 or later.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?4qkvk0

[Gotmadskillzson]

I am convinced that this current game engine can't handle multiple slider edits. Seems like the more sliders you edit, the more the CPU messes up and get confused.

[PGaither84]

I don't have NCAA 12, but I was directed here by Big FN Deal and wanted to reply.

Great thread/topic, but here are some videos to think about:

User Pass Rush - 100
Computer Pass Blocking - 0

I am the 49ers vs the Saints and I am user controlling the ILB Bowman dropping into coverage, not pass rushing. The AI does all the pass rushing:







So, yes, it can happen. But even with my settings it isn't consistent, and finesse moves are pretty non-existent.

[Big FN Deal]

@PG, that shows a pass rush but the DE still went outside, not spinning or attacking the inside shoulder like the OP mentioned.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gotmadskillzson

Since video is more helpful then words here you go. #55 DE is user controlled by me. This is something you will NEVER see a CPU controlled DE do. 1. CPU controlled Defensive End don't ever rush to the inside shoulder of an offensive tackle, they always rush to the outside shoulder in a pre-determined arc. 2. CPU controlled Defensive End don't ever execute a successful spin move passed an offensive tackle. As you see in the beginning of this video, #55 DE controlled by me, spins to the inside, throwing the OT OFF of me and make a straight line towards the QB. Second half of the video, #99 DE controlled by the CPU does what a CPU controlled Defensive End ALWAYS do. Rush to the outside doing that patty cake animation, never getting passed the OT. This needs to change in NCAA 13. Come on guys, you still tuning game play, get it tuned before the game comes out.