Why do past players thinking Suing E.A. sports for their likenesses will do any good?

[simgamer0005]

Quote: Originally Posted by over9000yards

You guys aren't looking at the big picture! EA uses doesn't need to use the names of players to be using their likeness. I jUST explained this in my last post. EA uses their numbers, similar ethnicity to the real players, and ratings that closely resemble the actual players. If that's not using someone's likeness, I don't know what else is. Furthermore, if this lawsuit against EA and the NCAA goes through, it would force either EA or NCAA to pay CURRENT players. This would destroy the concept of amatuerism in college sports and lead to the downfall of the NCAA. If you're a college sports fan and you don't despise the NCAA, I don't know what's wrong with you.

where do you draw the line, then? doesn't ESPN and television networks use player likenesses as well? (for profit) when you watch a college football game on TV, you see the names of the players on the TV screen. ESPN has commercials that say "watch Johnny Manziel play this weekend, on ESPN". Then ESPN runs commercials during the games, makes money off of that, because people are tuning in to watch Johnny Manziel.

Maybe ESPN should stop broadcasting college football games, since it is using player likenesses for their own profit. if you follow this rabbit hole all the way down to the bottom, it encompasses every aspect of college athletics, not just video games. that's why I believe that by the letter of the law, EA should be clear because it didn't use the actual player names. it gave you the ability to name the players, it had the same weight, height, player number, and ability of the actual player, but didn't actually provide the names of the player in the product. it's was basically nothing more then a generic create-a-player option with default values that loosely resembled the real players. jersey number, height, weight, attributes are generic things.

[JLoco11]

Quote: Originally Posted by over9000yards

You guys aren't looking at the big picture! EA uses doesn't need to use the names of players to be using their likeness. I jUST explained this in my last post. EA uses their numbers, similar ethnicity to the real players, and ratings that closely resemble the actual players. If that's not using someone's likeness, I don't know what else is. Furthermore, if this lawsuit against EA and the NCAA goes through, it would force either EA or NCAA to pay CURRENT players. This would destroy the concept of amatuerism in college sports and lead to the downfall of the NCAA. If you're a college sports fan and you don't despise the NCAA, I don't know what's wrong with you.

The lawsuit isn't just about likeness to the players though... the lawsuit has further implications than just likeness, which is what will be the bulk of the trial, or more specifically, the bulk of the fallout.

EA could (in theory) cede to likeness argument. Tell the court "yes we took players likeness... but their rights as amateur athletes WHILE they were amateurs were not broken due to NCAA rules".

O'Bannon beats EA, but he might not get paid because of how he signed his rights away to participate in NCAA amateur sports. The NCAA plays commercials on TV with players, shoots interviews for ESPN as part of media rights and TV contracts.

They sell jerseys with players numbers, in which case a player like Manziel can say his #2 TAMU jersey is the best seller only because of him. No other #2 TAMU player had his success! There are all kinds of likeness arguments, but that still doesn't break NCAA amateur/eligibility rules.

O'Bannon could easily beat EA on likeness, but he's not going after EA, he's going after the NCAA. That's where the lawsuit's money will be decided. He's trying to fight the paid athlete rule, and he's trying to do so after becoming a professional (a little clause in eligibility rulings).

This is why he's adding a current player to the lawsuit quietly, this is why EA is not sweating, because the burden falls on O'Bannon to say that amateur rules break anti-trust laws, which is an uphill battle.

Nobody thinks the NCAA is innocent. Nobody here thinks the NCAA isn't screwing over athletes every single day... but the laws are weighted on their side in this case. O'Bannon is going to win a battle, but he's ultimately going to lose the war.

[JLoco11]

Quote: Originally Posted by simgamer0005

where do you draw the line, then? doesn't ESPN and television networks use player likenesses as well? (for profit) when you watch a college football game on TV, you see the names of the players on the TV screen. ESPN has commercials that say "watch Johnny Manziel play this weekend, on ESPN". Then ESPN runs commercials during the games, makes money off of that, because people are tuning in to watch Johnny Manziel. Maybe ESPN should stop broadcasting college football games, since it is using player likenesses for their own profit. if you follow this rabbit hole all the way down to the bottom, it encompasses every aspect of college athletics, not just video games. that's why I believe that by the letter of the law, EA should be clear because it didn't use the actual player names. it gave you the ability to name the players, it had the same weight, height, player number, and ability of the actual player, but didn't actually provide the names of the player in the product. it's was basically nothing more then a generic create-a-player option with default values that loosely resembled the real players. jersey number, height, weight, attributes are generic things.

With the exception of TEBOW showing up a playing formation playbook. That is where EA is going to get caught in the lawsuit.

[simgamer0005]

Quote: Originally Posted by JLoco11

With the exception of TEBOW showing up a playing formation playbook. That is where EA is going to get caught in the lawsuit.

well not really. first of all the games named in the lawsuit were NCAA 2004, NCAA 2005, and NCAA 2006. not anything on next-gen. And the *name* of a formation playbook isn't a player likeness. besides, once a player graduates from college, he is then a pro athlete. The issue is with current college football players, at the time the game was released. That's why the cover athlete on the NCAA games were always players who had already graduated, and played college football the previous season. Tebow is now a pro athlete, so he could be on the cover of an NCAA game, or a playbook could be named after him.

[JLoco11]

Quote: Originally Posted by simgamer0005

well not really. first of all the games named in the lawsuit were NCAA 2004, NCAA 2005, and NCAA 2006. not anything on next-gen. And the *name* of a formation playbook isn't a player likeness. besides, once a player graduates from college, he is then a pro athlete. The issue is with current college football players, at the time the game was released. That's why the cover athlete on the NCAA games were always players who had already graduated, and played college football the previous season. Tebow is now a pro athlete, so he could be on the cover of an NCAA game, or a playbook could be named after him.

That's part of the amendment O'Bannon & co are adding, with current player status. It's going to be a trickle down effect to all games within the statue of limitations where 2005 being the earliest they can sue from based on the law.

Tebow was named in NCAA '10, his senior year in the game on the Gator Full formation. While his name isn't on the jersey, he is clearly the only Tebow playing football, in a formation made for him, in a game that he would be eligible.

If the judge rules current players are added to the amendment, all EA NCAA games from 2005 will be eligible in the lawsuit, and the TEBOW formation issue comes into play. And since he didn't graduate until after that game (cover of NCAA '11), it puts EA in a tricky spot to get out of....

but again, they could cede the likeness issue and let the lawsuit fight amateur payment eligibility rules and still walk away unscathed.

[GisherJohn24]

Quote: Originally Posted by over9000yards

You guys aren't looking at the big picture! EA uses doesn't need to use the names of players to be using their likeness. I jUST explained this in my last post. EA uses their numbers, similar ethnicity to the real players, and ratings that closely resemble the actual players. If that's not using someone's likeness, I don't know what else is. Furthermore, if this lawsuit against EA and the NCAA goes through, it would force either EA or NCAA to pay CURRENT players. This would destroy the concept of amatuerism in college sports and lead to the downfall of the NCAA. If you're a college sports fan and you don't despise the NCAA, I don't know what's wrong with you.

Ratings are circumstantial. You can't put ratings on a table and put them in front of a judge and prove they were copying the player by using the "ratings" argument.

[simgamer0005]

Quote: Originally Posted by JLoco11

That's part of the amendment O'Bannon & co are adding, with current player status. It's going to be a trickle down effect to all games within the statue of limitations where 2005 being the earliest they can sue from based on the law.

Do you mean NCAA Football 2005 or games released in the year 2005 (NCAA06)? NCAA 2005 was released on 07/15/04. NCAA 06 was released 07/11/05, 8 years ago yesterday. If they are still adding amendments to the suit, then it isn't official filed yet. If the statue of limitations is 8 years, then they may be limited to NCAA 07 and onward, ironically when the next-gen engine started.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLoco11

Tebow was named in NCAA '10, his senior year in the game on the Gator Full formation. While his name isn't on the jersey, he is clearly the only Tebow playing football, in a formation made for him, in a game that he would be eligible.

So if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck? I believe that EA has smoke and mirrors on their side. Tebow is just a name. What if Tebow's name was Smith, a more common last name? Could you have a formation with the name Smith in it? The issue is with player likenesses, not with a name of a formation. It could be argued that Tebow became a style of playing the QB position.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLoco11

If the judge rules current players are added to the amendment, all EA NCAA games from 2005 will be eligible in the lawsuit, and the TEBOW formation issue comes into play. And since he didn't graduate until after that game (cover of NCAA '11), it puts EA in a tricky spot to get out of.... but again, they could cede the likeness issue and let the lawsuit fight amateur payment eligibility rules and still walk away unscathed.

when you say all EA NCAA games from 2005 will be eligible, do you mean from NCAA 06 on? it was released 8 years ago yesterday. Is the statue of limitations 8 years?

[kjcheezhead]

I`m not a huge college fan, so I'm rooting for EA on this one. If they are able to use the level of likeness they do now, they will set a standard for other companies to use real players, cities, team colors for a generic pro game without risk of being sued.

Of course if EA loses they will have to pay for using the likenesses which in turn would make it more difficult to pay the huge cost for exclusive licenses. It could set a path for new generic/pro games, but probably at the cost of future college games.