►Welcome:
Welcome to the yearly tradition of the OS Community sliders for FIFA, this year we play FIFA 21.
►Brief History and Origin:
People ask me how this idea was started. It basically came down to myself and good friend Orion, who were working on our own FIFA sliders separately. Someone in one of my Twitch streams made the suggestion to maybe collaborate. I had not thought if that would be possible considering I didn't really know his approach, and if he knew mine. This difference of approach though allowed there to be a good balance in the sets we created. I would always test the absolute thresholds, while Orion would stay within/near default values. This ended up working great, and we have been working together since FIFA 15.
►How we test:
Always in Career Mode. You are investing in sliders for a reason, and most of the time that is to play in Career Mode. So, it only makes sense to test in that same environment. With so many values to be looked at, and those values being in 1 point increments, it is very easy to come up with multiple versions of sliders. We will always test on Default first, then identify the main areas to look at. From there, it's about collaborating and finding workarounds for those problem areas. With sliders, it is always a balancing act, fix one thing - potentially break the next.
►Version Format:
As I said this thread moves fast, and versions get updated. My goal is to always make less versions, but we're at the mercy of 1) EA's updates, and 2) Our own curiosity in determining the best values.
Similar to last year, I will be using the format in which the Version number is determined first, then a Beta number follows. For example, the first version will be Version 1, Beta 1; so it will read as : "V1B1", and down the road Version 6, Beta 2 will read "V6B2". As soon as it is determined that the version is "final", it will simply, for example, be called Version 6 Final, or "V6Final". I will make sure the OP is updated in a log format, so everyone is on the same page.
►Helpful Reminders:
As always, remember that the thread moves very fast. I will do my best to update this Original Post as much as possible. I have learned a lot about how to be the "project manager" of this whole thing, so if I do not respond to every post, it is either because it got lost in the shuffle, or that replying to it would deter the thread from achieving the goal of establishing a slider set.
►The Main Rules of the Thread:
1. Do not post your own full set. This deters the entire thread. All slider values are relative to one another, so if we see a value like 30 pass speed with a line length of 70, then that's not relevant to someone using a 50 pass speed with a line length of 35. It's better to leave it out of the thread, and create your own.
2. Feedback in Animation. The Match Stats only give so much information. Telling us the CPU has 99% passing is not helpful. Were they passing the ball through the backline the entire time? Details are important, and throughout the years I have asked for details in animations. What this means is simply "What do you see"? Is the CPU having that high passing because your defending players are too slow? Too far away? Too wide? In the end, VIDEO NEVER LIES, so if you have video to provide - please do so. That will save so much time and less of a Q&A.
3. We are not your customer service. This is a collaboration space. Noone is being paid here by EA. Provide feedback because you want to help, not because you feel entitled to let us do all the hard work and you sit back and criticize.
4. Respect each other. Thankfully, we have not run into this issue as much, but there have been times where it's close. First, regarding myself, I am the project manager here. What that means is I am going for a goal, and discussion about conspiracies, theories or ET is not going to be helpful. Secondly, we all have opinions and some know how to filter them, some do not. There is a message there, so do not get offended if someone disagrees with you. We love the game, and just want what is best for it - so keep it civil!
5. Please keep general impressions in the FIFA impressions thread, not here. This is a solution based thread, and general complaints will be ignored. We understand each iteration of FIFA has issues, what game doesn't, but we are given the tools to find workarounds. Remember, this is a slider thread, which means the sample size of play is significantly increased. Chances are if you are having an issue, we have most likely looked at it.
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Please retweet/like my post to EA. We've got to push for this fix:
Timestamp: 2/7/2021 | 10:30 AM CST --- I know it has been a LONG TIME since the last update. Honestly, that's never a bad thing in FIFA. However, I will admit, this lack of an update was probably the more defeated we have collectively felt in a while. We know the battle of realism against the FUT demands is always goin to go in their favor, but every year we try to make the best out of what we got.
The biggest issue with this FIFA 21 (current-gen and next-gen), is the midfielders for both User and CPU. Basically, they are passive and do not track back all the way. Reference FIFA 19 midfielders for a stark comparison. I've also included this twitter post that shows the difference of central midfielders in FIFA 21 vs FIFA 19:
This doesn't look like it will be changed unfortunately - at least not for FIFA 21 (fingers crossed). The mentality of "AI defending" is so user-specific, but EA crumbles to FUT demands - no matter how illogical they are.
So, this slider set finishes with a disappointing FIFA year. The game is still playable when there's a midfield, but is such a shame when there's not. This slider set simply enhances the previous V2B2, and brings in the customizations for different play style and settings - just how we did last year.
I would like to apologize for my lack of involvement in the thread recently. I have been working on my own development in learning to be a full-stack programmer. It has taken at least 40 hours each week. FIFA has always been on my mind though, and making time for it was a priority the last couple of weeks as these enhancements were made to V2B2. I hope you all enjoy it as much as I have, but are still passionate to demand more from EA.
I want to thank the direct crew of testers that have been incredibly diligent in helping me finalize this set.
Enjoy!
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Here is the Final version of the FIFA 21 Operation Sports Community Sliders. As always, please give feedback regarding this set exactly.
FIFA 21 Operation Sports Sliders |||FINAL||
Explanation of each value listed in Spoilers: Please note that this year the values of the sets are divided by a | line. Most value difference between the sets are obvious, but please ask in the thread if you have questions of why certain values were chosen.
Spoiler
♦♦♦ Goal: On Legendary, no matter what slider values you change, the CPU has a bit of left over competitor mode in them - which prevents them from doing the obvious like crossing the ball or shooting in obvious positions. The acceleration discrepancy on this set, and all sets, will allow for a much more competitive game against the CPU overall.♦♦♦
If the value is the same for all difficulties, it will be listed once. Please refer to posted image of slider set as well.
Sprint - 20/20
► Lower Sprint in FIFA always brings momentum and some form of foot planting. Since we're playing on Normal speed, it means even more of an emphasis needs to be made in getting that feel right.
Acceleration - 48/50 | 48/50 | 48/50 | 48/51 | 48/50
► The discrepancy here is vital to ensuring the CPU is competitive against you. Because of the midfield issue, it's easy to reach the CPU's defensive line with a couple 1-2's and through balls. With this slight discrepancy, it keeps the CPU midfielders in the challenge just a bit more, but even important there is the defenders can be in position to challenge the ball carrier sooner - so it requires just that much more precision from the attacking side. *If there is anything negative here, is the sacrifice in stamina consumption for the user's players as the lower acceleration means less stamina drain*.
Shot Error - 68/68 | 72/72 | 68/70 | 60/60 | 60/60
► A good balance of poor shots and quality strikes. The threshold here is for when bad shots result in a variety, including high over the bar shots that don't happen very often on default or under 65. Have to ensure that the lowest league player can also still strike a ball with decent quality.
Pass Error - 55/55 | 60/65 | 55/60 | 55/52 | 52/52
► The key with pass error is that we have to find the value that makes it where the CPU isn't going to constantly try the same types of passes to break the defensive line. The most common method on default is to try to thread a through ball in, and let the forward be 1v1 with the keeper. With this value just slightly raised, we get that variety we are looking for, and paired with the lower pass speed, it gives defenders more of a chance to intercept/deflect. We lowered the pass error for World Class/Pro to keep the CPU a bit more of a threat compared to above 60 values.
Shot Speed - 49/49
► A favorite choice here to lower shot speed, but with the acceleration value at 48, the keeper will also be just slightly delayed, giving that late reaction for some brilliant saves or clutching at thin air look. Makes for some fantastic interactions with the ball.
Pass Speed - 35/35 | 35/35 | 35/35 | 35/45 | 45/45
► Lowered pass speed a bit to compensate for an ever passive midfield. Allows driven passes from the CPU to be a bit less effective as well.
Injury Frequency - 75/75
► Thanks to Red for figuring these out and keeping good documentation, we've found that these are probably the most balanced of walk-offs, temporary and significant injuries.
Injury Severity - 25/25
► Thanks to Red for figuring these out and keeping good documentation, we've found that these are probably the most balanced of walk-offs, temporary and significant injuries.
GK Ability - 42/42
► This is a significant change, but anything above 45 and the keeper seems to cover so much ground. In addition, the higher the GK value, the more "soft" deflections that set up more chances. With the lower value, there's a bit more delay in reactions, which results in the coveted slight deflections that go out for corners.
Marking - 65/65 | 65/65 | 65/65 | 65/65 | 55/55
► With the massive amount of testing, we started to build the HLW as a priority, and from there it was a matter of finding the best marking to make up for space. We had it at 70 for quite a while, but recent testing allowed the value to be lowered, especially as run frequency and FB positioning have been increased slightly.
Run Frequency - 5/5 | 5/5 | 5/5 | 5/5 | 10/10
► Relative to the other values, we wanted to really focus on ensuring that we're not seeing a tennis match of sorts - at least not in every game. Custom team tactics matter the most, but with sliders it's about addressing the position of the midfield and how runs off the ball affect that.
● The Height, Length, Width (often referred as "HLW") are quite important to consider for each slider set. [/color]
Height - 52/52
► We had this at 50 for a long time, but found out that it was preventing some of the variety from the CPU's build-up and attack. Of course, team tactics dominate the most, but the most notable gameplay finding here is how the CPU crosses (as mentioned, World Class is not as flawed as Legendary or Ultimate) relative to the position of the oncoming runners into the box.
Length - 5/5
► By far this is the most important value of the entire set. As I mentioned above, a big thanks to OS testers, and in particular QB for his relentless efforts in ensuring we don't settle. We found slightly higher values than 5 (max of 20) started to look really good shape-wise. The importance of playing at 5 length though really compresses the field of play, naturally, but it is not to the point there is no decompression. It's surprising really because we have notoriously used higher values over the years. However, the midfielders not tracking back is such a big time issue - that we're basically forcing them to get in a somewhat correct position - even if it's not perfect or fundamentally sound. *Note, as the user you still need to manually control your midfielders and practice good technique. This is not a 100% automated process. The FUT/PRO crowd made sure their misguided "AI defending" theories were the norm.*
Width - 48/48
► The width was moved all over the place to be honest. We've tried to get into positions in which the players can be isolated to FIFA's 1v1 logic, but that ended up hurting the midfield to become non-existent and easily bypassed. As a result, the width had to be lowered so there was more play in the wider parts of the pitch, versus just central passes (or chips) as a means of attack. In a two-man central midfield, they will look "stacked" initially, but will eventually spread out as the ball moves into deeper positions on the pitch. This will be the same with the fullbacks - and let me say do not get carried away with the FB positioning as that will always be narrow (whether 0 or 100 values of width) because they are set up to be very narrow from the start and in transition.
FB Pos - 5/5
► We want to reduce any other types of runs off the ball. Of course, in typical FIFA fashion, lower FB doesn't remove overlapping fullbacks or even negate them from getting upfield.
FT Control - 70/70 | 70/70 | 70/75 | 70/60 | 60/60
► Gives just a bit more time and randomness to the matches. Exceptional players will be just that at both controlling the ball in the air and ground, but also how they dribble 1v1 - making it much less frustrating having to deal with high agile dribblers.
Common Q&A:
Quote:
What causes the central midfielders not to track back?
Welcome to FIFA 21. This is the crux we have been facing from day one - and in my case Early Access. Make sure to retweet and like the Tweet I posted above (in the OP), because that's as good as we can ask for right now.
from: jrnlgrn
The big 3 attributes to get midfielders to play defense appear to be Reaction, Aggressiveness and Vision. If one of those is too low it throws off everything and they will almost always stand around. The higher those are the more likely they will track runners and defend. Having high interceptions and position attributes also contribute but don't need to be as high. Those attributes are not 100% going to guarantee they do their job but they are more likely to be engaged. It's not a fix but something to be on the look out for.
Quote:
Why do you recommend Legacy defending?
Because the central midfielders do not track back most of the time, the user is able to control the pressure on the ball with legacy defending.
Quote:
The CPU never crosses
We found that this is not necessarily because of sliders, it's mainly because of the type of player instructions. If they are set to cut inside, they won't cross as much. If they are set to stay out wide, they will.
Quote:
I played one game with the sliders, and it was terrible. I changed [values] and it's great.
This isn't helpful. I know we want a good experience immediately, but honestly, you have to set your expectations that there are going to be good games - and bad games - regardless of the sliders. One of my favorite matches was SD Huesca vs Levante. My worst is Rotherham v PNE. Why? SD Huesca like to cross a lot and have aggressive central midfielders. PNE have aggressive press after possession loss - so they get out of position a lot. All this means is that tactics make a huge difference to experiences. When we test sliders, we are keeping each tactic in mind. What plays well for a balanced team, may not play good at all for a constant pressure team. As a result, we have to find a medium. This is also why one of the main rules is to not act like we are customer service. Provide feedback to help - not to criticize.
Quote:
Why can't I play on Slow?
On slow, the CPU defenders allow runners into the box with ease. They are seen shuffling/jockeying aimlessly, and runners breeze past untouched - making crossing goals incredibly easy.
Example:
Quote:
Ultimate is so good. Why haven't you played it?
We honestly haven't gotten around to it. If you do play it, we need very specific details on why and why it is different compared to the posted Legendary or World Class (with modifier) posted?
Quote:
Competitor mode on or off?
If you have seen how competitor mode plays, then it's pretty obvious we would be against it. So, no, 100% competitor mode is OFF. I will update this in the slider set as well.
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-------------------- Streamers (Twitch, YouTube, etc):Please message me or post in the thread to be added! http://twitch.tv/matt10l
- On this one you can type in !sliders in the chatbox, and the most recently streamed set will show.
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-------------------- Version Logs:
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Previous All Versions and Streamed Sets:
Version 2, Beta 2
Spoiler
Here is Version 2, Beta 2. As always, please give feedback regarding this set exactly.
FIFA 21 Operation Sports Sliders |||Version 2, Beta 2||
Explanation of each value listed in Spoilers:
Spoiler
♦♦♦ Goal: The focus of this set is to compress the field more, and keep the distance between the midfield and defensive line in a more realistic fashion. Since the midfielders do not track back, we wanted to get the lines super compressed and pushed further to action via the HLW + marking values. As a result, this is by far one of the most enjoyable sets we've been able to produce for FIFA 21. Enjoy!.♦♦♦
If the value is the same for all difficulties, it will be listed once. Please refer to posted image of slider set as well.
Sprint - 20/20
► Lower Sprint in FIFA always brings momentum and some form of foot planting. Since we're playing on Normal speed, it means even more of an emphasis needs to be made in getting that feel right. We dropped this back down from 25 to get a more solid feel. There is less room to operate due to the set changes overall, so it will make speed in open play count.
Acceleration - 50/50
► Lowered acceleration back down from 51 because we are playing normal, and the speed of play is already rapid compared to Slow, but also that the close-down rate is achieved elsewhere.
Shot Error - 68/68 | 72/72 | 68/70
► A good balance of poor shots and quality strikes. The threshold here is for when bad shots result in a variety, including high over the bar shots that don't happen very often on default or under 65. Have to ensure that the lowest league player can also still strike a ball with decent quality.
Pass Error - 55/55 | 60/65 | 55/60
► The key with pass error is that we have to find the value that makes it where the CPU isn't going to constantly try the same types of passes to break the defensive line. The most common method on default is to try to thread a through ball in, and let the forward be 1v1 with the keeper. With this value just slightly raised, we get that variety we are looking for, and paired with the lower pass speed, it gives defenders more of a chance to intercept/deflect. We lowered the pass error for World Class/Pro to keep the CPU a bit more of a threat compared to above 60 values.
Shot Speed - 49/49
► A favorite choice here to lower shot speed, but with the acceleration value at 48, the keeper will also be just slightly delayed, giving that late reaction for some brilliant saves or clutching at thin air look. Makes for some fantastic interactions with the ball.
Pass Speed - 42/42
► Raised pass speed just slightly to not only accommodate the increased pass error, but also to help pace of play. In addition, the feel for manual players is a bit better compared to 40.
Injury Frequency - 90/90
► The overall adjustments to the set should spark some more variety, but we will keep an eye on this with more sample size.
Injury Severity - 40/40
► The overall adjustments to the set should spark some more variety, but we will keep an eye on this with more sample size.
GK Ability - 42/42
► This is a significant change, but anything above 45 and the keeper seems to cover so much ground. In addition, the higher the GK value, the more "soft" deflections that set up more chances. With the lower value, there's a bit more delay in reactions, which results in the coveted slight deflections that go out for corners.
Marking - 70/70
► With the massive amount of testing, we started to build the HLW as a priority, and from there it was a matter of finding the best marking to make up for space.
Run Frequency - 0/0
► We are not even going to mess with a chance of it disrupting the midfield. The secondary runs are lessened here because we do not want many of them. On other values, it is too easy to breach the defensive line with passing to a striker, holding it up, and waiting for a central midfielder to run past.
● The Height, Length, Width (often referred as "HLW") are quite important to consider for each slider set. [/color]
Height - 50/50
► We've been a bit everywhere with height, but in the end, it's about finding the "true height" to compliment the expected custom team-tactics (CTT). As a result, 50 is the play here. In addition, relative to the set at hand, we wanted the CPU's passing variety to remain, whereas when we veered away from 50, the CPU went one-note (such as chipped passes to attackers, etc).
Length - 5/5
► By far this is the most important value of the entire set. As I mentioned above, a big thanks to OS testers, and in particular QB for his relentless efforts in ensuring we don't settle. We found slightly higher values than 5 (max of 20) started to look really good shape-wise. The importance of playing at 5 length though really compresses the field of play, naturally, but it is not to the point there is no decompression. It's surprising really because we have notoriously used higher values over the years. However, the midfielders not tracking back is such a big time issue - that we're basically forcing them to get in a somewhat correct position - even if it's not perfect or fundamentally sound. *Note, as the user you still need to manually control your midfielders and practice good technique. This is not a 100% automated process. The FUT/PRO crowd made sure their misguided "AI defending" theories were the norm.*
Width - 48/48
► The width was moved all over the place to be honest. We've tried to get into positions in which the players can be isolated to FIFA's 1v1 logic, but that ended up hurting the midfield to become non-existent and easily bypassed. As a result, the width had to be lowered so there was more play in the wider parts of the pitch, versus just central passes (or chips) as a means of attack. In a two-man central midfield, they will look "stacked" initially, but will eventually spread out as the ball moves into deeper positions on the pitch. This will be the same with the fullbacks - and let me say do not get carried away with the FB positioning as that will always be narrow (whether 0 or 100 values of width) because they are set up to be very narrow from the start and in transition.
FB Pos - 1/1
► We want to reduce any other types of runs off the ball. Of course, in typical FIFA fashion, lower FB doesn't remove overlapping fullbacks or even negate them from getting upfield.
FT Control - 90/90 | 70/90
► Gives just a bit more time and randomness to the matches. Exceptional players will be just that at both controlling the ball in the air and ground, but also how they dribble 1v1 - making it much less frustrating having to deal with high agile dribblers.
Version 2, Beta 1
Spoiler
Changelog & Updates:
Timestamp: 10/22/2020 | 7:11 PM CST --- It's been quite a whirlwind of testing FIFA 21. In the end, the central midfield issue still isn't fixed. However, this set is in a better place due to some significant changes. The goal was to never steer that far away from default, but this game has forced our hand a bit (a lot).
I'll save the explanations for below, but I do want to remind you all to make sure to tweet and retweet the twitter post above. It's amazing how a lot of so called "gamechangers" ignore this big issue, yet most CM players I've seen are fed up with it. In the end, we're left with the scraps of the FUT/PRO crowds demands. It's not really their fault either. They are doing what we would have done, backed up changes for the mode we play. It's EA's production's fault to choose, for yet another year, not to separate the gameplay of Online vs Offline. If Online did not want "AI Defending", that makes sense, because they want to micromanage all players in a User v User format. However, we're Career Mode players. We play against the CPU. Removing "AI Defending" from the CPU is illogical - yet, that's what we've been left with.
I hope you all enjoy these sliders. I want to thank you for your patience while we worked tirelessly on these. Please remember to leave feedback, but most importantly, remember the rules posted so we keep working constructively.
Thanks!
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Here is Version 2, Beta 1. As always, please give feedback regarding this set exactly.
FIFA 21 Operation Sports Sliders |||Version 2, Beta 1||
Explanation of each value listed in Spoilers:
Spoiler
♦♦♦ Goal: The focus here is to get the midfield compact again. By raising acceleration, we've been able to establish some closedown rate, and some return in physicality. However, it is the low marking and width that creates a "stacked" look for the midfield - which places bodies in front of the receivers. That's not to say the CPU doesn't still love their chipped passes, but it at least will allow the next set of defending players to be in position better. As mentioned, there are some significant changes from default, and that's simply because with the midfield glitch, it is too easy to take advantage in overpowering off the ball runners.♦♦♦
Values after the | symbol indicate World Class | Ultimate ; if the value is the same for all difficulties, it will be listed once.
Sprint - 25/25
► Lower Sprint in FIFA always brings momentum and some form of foot planting. Since we're playing on Normal speed, it means even more of an emphasis needs to be made in getting that feel right. We've just raised this a tad from 20 because it was a bit too slow, and the recovery defensively was lacking at times.
Acceleration - 51/51
► Raising this value is made to get the closedown rate (time for the defensive player to get in front of the ball carrier) right on point, relative to the line and marking settings. This also keeps the CPU in the sequence longer defensively. It makes for some messy play in the midfield - which is ironically a breath of fresh air as FIFA 21 doesn't really have a midfield by default.
Shot Error - 72/72 | 68/68 | 68/72
► A good balance of poor shots and quality strikes. The threshold here is for when bad shots result in a variety, including high over the bar shots that don't happen very often on default or under 65. Have to ensure that the lowest league player can also still strike a ball with decent quality.
Pass Error - 60/65 | 55/60 | 55/60
► The key with pass error is that we have to find the value that makes it where the CPU isn't going to constantly try the same types of passes to break the defensive line. The most common method on default is to try to thread a through ball in, and let the forward be 1v1 with the keeper. With this value just slightly raised, we get that variety we are looking for, and paired with the lower pass speed, it gives defenders more of a chance to intercept/deflect.
Shot Speed - 49/49
► A favorite choice here to lower shot speed, but with the acceleration value at 48, the keeper will also be just slightly delayed, giving that late reaction for some brilliant saves or clutching at thin air look. Makes for some fantastic interactions with the ball.
Pass Speed - 42/42
► Raised pass speed just slightly to not only accommodate the increased pass error, but also to help pace of play. In addition, the feel for manual players is a bit better compared to 40.
Injury Freq - 90/90
► The overall adjustments to the set should spark some more variety, but we will keep an eye on this with more sample size.
Injury Sev - 40/40
► The overall adjustments to the set should spark some more variety, but we will keep an eye on this with more sample size.
GK Ability - 42/42
► This is a significant change, but anything above 45 and the keeper seems to cover so much ground. In addition, the higher the GK value, the more "soft" deflections that set up more chances. With the lower value, there's a bit more delay in reactions, which results in the coveted slight deflections that go out for corners.
Marking - 50/50
► Lowered the marking back to default because the line length is even. In addition, there was no benefit to raising the value as the amount of variables it creates would require much more time and sample size to get right. Each defensive style has been tested with this set, and the best look was a lower marking value 50.
Run Frequency - 0/0
► Where RF at 30 was key for the previous set, this go around we are not even going to mess with a chance of it disrupting the midfield. The secondary runs are lessened here because we do not want many of them. On other values, it is too easy to breach the defensive line with passing to a striker, holding it up, and waiting for a central midfielder to run past.
● The Height, Length, Width (often referred as "HLW") are quite important to consider for each slider set. This year for FIFA 21 they are essential to be close to default, with the exception of line length, which is explained below. [/color]
Height - 55/55
► It has been a hesitation to raise height too much because the raising of height means the defensive line is introduced sooner - which means the chance of being breached increases. However, we want this value to work as the north-south (end-line to end-line) marking.
Length - 45/45
► As much as the length discrepancy helped, it also eventually starting hurting - and was only useful with a high marking value. There's just too much going on in the midfield with those variables, so it's just a matter of lowering length just enough that the spacing works with the other values in play. *Note, as the user you still need to manually control your midfielders and practice good technique. This is not a 100% automated process. The FUT/PRO crowd made sure their misguided "AI defending" theories were the norm.*
Width - 48/48
► The width was moved all over the place to be honest. We've tried to get into positions in which the players can be isolated to FIFA's 1v1 logic, but that ended up hurting the midfield to become non-existent and easily bypassed. As a result, the width had to be lowered so there was more play in the wider parts of the pitch, versus just central passes (or chips) as a means of attack. In a two-man central midfield, they will look "stacked" initially, but will eventually spread out as the ball moves into deeper positions on the pitch. This will be the same with the fullbacks - and let me say do not get carried away with the FB positioning as that will always be narrow (whether 0 or 100 values of width) because they are set up to be very narrow from the start and in transition.
FB Pos - 1/1
► We want to reduce any other types of runs off the ball. Of course, in typical FIFA fashion, lower FB doesn't remove overlapping fullbacks or even negate them from getting upfield.
FT Control - 90/90
► Gives just a bit more time and randomness to the matches. Exceptional players will be just that at both controlling the ball in the air and ground, but also how they dribble 1v1 - making it much less frustrating having to deal with high agile dribblers.
Version 1
Spoiler
Changelog & Updates: Timestamp: 10/11/2020 | 7:29 AM CST --- We've been working on getting the Version 1 slider set in a good place, and after a couple changes, we feel it's in the best spot possible. Let me stress again that by no means are the central midfield issues fixed. There are a lot of other values that come into play from an attribute standpoint. Jrn went into great detail of testing over the last couple of days:
Quote:
jrnlgrn
The big 3 attributes to get midfielders to play defense appear to be Reaction, Aggressiveness and Vision. If one of those is too low it throws off everything and they will almost always stand around. The higher those are the more likely they will track runners and defend. Having high interceptions and position attributes also contribute but don't need to be as high. Those attributes are not 100% going to guarantee they do their job but they are more likely to be engaged. It's not a fix but something to be on the look out for.
While sliders cannot fix these issues, what we can do is try our best to distract the players from being the source of frustration for users. To do this, the sliders have been modified just slightly from V1B1, but modified in the right spots. We took our time to go in 5pt increments of testing, but also explored extreme values as well. The good thing is the best base was already there, and just a couple significant tweaks made the difference.
First off, there are 3 difficulties, starting with Legendary, World Class and Ultimate. These are ordered in the amount of time they've been tested. A lot of the values are the same because the base set is good where it's at, there just needs to be some modifiers for the difficulties.
While I will go into the goal of the Version 1, Beta 2 (V1B2) set a bit further in the spoilers, I wanted to place a huge importance to one of the true "gamechangers" of how our matches have gone - which is Run Frequency at 30/30. This value alone has changed the way the CPU plays, the way the players interact throughout the pitch. We have seen so much variety in the runs off the ball, that it truly brings in a different feel than before.
Example here on how the CPU builds from the back now, versus just driving the ball upfield or lobbing it over player's heads. Followed by great movement off the ball.
These subtle movements off the ball create a different approach to the matches. It calms things down in the right moments, but still keeps you on your defensive toes in others. It works the same way for the CPU as well. Yes, there will be times the midfield stands around - we may have to get over that - but what has played out has been the best FIFA 21 has played. We've tested through the difficulties (ultimate is hard) and various formations + tactics + instructions. Passes the test.
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Here is Version 1, Beta 2. As always, please give feedback regarding this set exactly.
FIFA 21 Operation Sports Sliders |||Version 1, Beta 2||
Explanation of each value listed in Spoilers:
Spoiler
♦♦♦ Goal: The focus here is still to get midfielders to latch onto their man, but its' not going to be perfect. The introduction of lowering run frequency to 30, for this set, has been remarkable, and the other values compliment the change.♦♦♦
Values after the | symbol indicate World Class | Ultimate ; if the value is the same for all difficulties, it will be listed once.
Sprint - 20/20
► Lower Sprint in FIFA always brings momentum and some form of foot planting. Since we're playing on Normal speed, it means even more of an emphasis needs to be made in getting that feel right.
Acceleration - 48/48 | 48/49
► This is a welcome surprise because so many of us love a lower acceleration. However, in year's past it hasn't been an option because of how it reduces fatigue rather than drain it. This year though, it seems like fatigue still happens at this 48 value. This probably has a lot to do with the run frequency as well as the marking positions. Lastly, the importance with the acceleration is also to ensure that it is not so low that both user and CPU can out-race each other with ease. The modifier for World Class is to ensure the CPU can keep an advantage over the user in certain areas.
Shot Error - 70/70 | 68/68 | 70/72
► A good balance of poor shots and quality strikes. The threshold here is for when bad shots result in a variety, including high over the bar shots that don't happen very often on default or under 65. Have to ensure that the lowest league player can also still strike a ball with decent quality.
Pass Error - 55/55
► The key with pass error is that we have to find the value that makes it where the CPU isn't going to constantly try the same types of passes to break the defensive line. The most common method on default is to try to thread a through ball in, and let the forward be 1v1 with the keeper. With this value just slightly raised, we get that variety we are looking for, and paired with the lower pass speed, it gives defenders more of a chance to intercept/deflect.
Shot Speed - 49/49
► A favorite choice here to lower shot speed, but with the acceleration value at 48, the keeper will also be just slightly delayed, giving that late reaction for some brilliant saves or clutching at thin air look. Makes for some fantastic interactions with the ball.
Pass Speed - 40/40
► Lowered pass speed from 45 to allow just a bit more time for players to regroup defensively. Driven passes look like 50 pass speeds, which is ideal - giving a chance to be intercepted. Long balls float just a bit more so the velocity is toned down a bit.
Injury Freq - 90/90
► Still brings enough variety as before.
Injury Sev - 40/40
► Again, enough variety and nothing so consistent between multiple users at this point.
GK Ability - 48/48
► With the lowering of shot speed, and acceleration, the GK will be just slightly delayed. It's important that we do not go so low that they become completely delayed with reactions.
Marking - 65/68
► This is one of the key values in the set. It compliments the discrepancy of the line length to determine when the defending midfielder needs to latch onto the oncoming runner.
Run Frequency - 30/30
► The anchor of V1B2. This controls the fluidity, the build up, the random occurrences in the center of the pitch. The runs off the ball are so key each year in FIFA, but from what we have had to live with the CM track back issues - this run frequency change has been a light. Do not go lower or higher as it will completely skew the set and you will be left with over adjusting other values as a result.
● The Height, Length, Width (often referred as "HLW") are quite important to consider for each slider set. This year for FIFA 21 they are essential to be close to default, with the exception of line length, which is explained below. [/color]
Height - 50/50
► We're going to leave it alone for now. By default it feels somewhat low, but every team tactic/instruction makes a difference in some spots. We tested this value a lot, and found that as it is increased, it doesn't just move the midfielders up higher, it brings in the forwards closer - making it a constant defensive line through ball training session.
Length - 40/45
► The core value of the entire set really. It ensures that the user's midfielders are low enough that they can prepare for the oncoming runners, then latch onto them via the marking. For the CPU, it's the same, but because they cannot come off the rails like the user can, we need to give them just a bit more space and marking to prepare. *Note, as the user you still need to manually control your midfielders and practice good technique. This is not a 100% automated process. The FUT/PRO crowd made sure their misguided "AI defending" theories were the norm.*
Width - 50/50
► We're going to leave it alone for now. By default it feels somewhat low, but every team tactic/instruction makes a difference in some spots.
FB Pos - 50/50
► Again, no need to modify this as it can definitely hurt, or help.
FT Control - 90/90
► A significant change here because it gives just a bit more time and randomness to the matches. Exceptional players will be just that at both controlling the ball in the air and ground, but also how they dribble 1v1 - making it much less frustrating having to deal with high agile dribblers.
Base Set - Findings 2
Spoiler
Changelog & Updates:
Timestamp: 10/10/2020 | 2:15 PM CST --- Hi everyone, I just wanted to address a couple things from reading the thread. I can tell you that we are working quite hard on trying to find some sense of decent gameplay in FIFA 21. On the ball is terrific, but anyone who knows the sport understands that 90% of the game is off the ball positioning, movement, etc - and that's where FIFA 21 is failing the sim community.
Quote:
The CPU never crosses
We found that this is not necessarily because of sliders, it's mainly because of the type of player instructions. If they are set to cut inside, they won't cross as much. If they are set to stay out wide, they will.
Quote:
The central midfielders do not track back.
Welcome to FIFA 21. This is the crux we have been facing from day one - and in my case Early Access. Make sure to retweet and like the Tweet I posted above (in the OP), because that's as good as we can ask for right now.
Quote:
I played one game with the sliders, and it was terrible. I changed [values] and it's great.
This isn't helpful. I know we want a good experience immediately, but honestly, you have to set your expectations that there are going to be good games - and bad games - regardless of the sliders. One of my favorite matches was SD Huesca vs Levante. My worst is Rotherham v PNE. Why? SD Huesca like to cross a lot and have aggressive central midfielders. PNE have aggressive press after possession loss - so they get out of position a lot. All this means is that tactics make a huge difference to experiences. When we test sliders, we are keeping each tactic in mind. What plays well for a balanced team, may not play good at all for a constant pressure team. As a result, we have to find a medium. This is also why one of the main rules is to not act like we are customer service. Provide feedback to help - not to criticize.
Quote:
Why can't I play on Slow?
On slow, the CPU defenders allow runners into the box with ease. They are seen shuffling/jockeying aimlessly, and runners breeze past untouched - making crossing goals incredibly easy.
Example:
Quote:
Ultimate is so good. Why haven't you played it?
We honestly haven't gotten around to it. If you do play it, we need very specific details on why and why it is different compared to the posted Legendary or World Class (with modifier) posted?
Quote:
Competitor mode on or off?
If you have seen how competitor mode plays, then it's pretty obvious we would be against it. So, no, 100% competitor mode is OFF. I will update this in the slider set as well.
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Here is Version 1, Beta 1. Please give feedback regarding this set exactly. I've used a lot values that I know have worked for us in the past, and trusted my eyes on how the animations play out. Give a decent amount of sample size, and any videos always help the cause.
FIFA 21 Operation Sports Sliders |||Version 1, Beta 1||
Explanation of each value listed in Spoilers:
Spoiler
♦♦♦ Goal: What a difference a couple days make. We understood that the biggest issue was the midfielders not tracking, but what was more frustrating is that the usual adjustments weren't making that difference. The focus here was to use what FIFA 21 gives us, which is multiple runs off the ball. From there, it's about making sure the defending midfielders "latch on" to the runners, which will then force them into their proper positions - even after the runners have left them.♦♦♦
Sprint - 20/20 | 20/30
► Lower Sprint in FIFA always brings momentum and some form of foot planting. Since we're playing on Normal speed, it means even more of an emphasis needs to be made in getting that feel right.
Acceleration - 48/48 | 48/49
► This is a welcome surprise because so many of us love a lower acceleration. However, in year's past it hasn't been an option because of how it reduces fatigue rather than drain it. This year though, it seems like fatigue still happens at this 48 value. This probably has a lot to do with the run frequency as well as the marking positions. Lastly, the importance with the acceleration is also to ensure that it is not so low that both user and CPU can out-race eachother with ease.
Shot Error - 65/65
► A good balance of poor shots and quality strikes. The threshold here is for when bad shots result in a variety, including high over the bar shots that don't happen very often on default or under 65. Have to ensure that the lowest league player can also still strike a ball with decent quality.
Pass Error - 55/55
► The key with pass error is that we have to find the value that makes it where the CPU isn't going to constantly try the same types of passes to break the defensive line. The most common method on default is to try to thread a through ball in, and let the forward be 1v1 with the keeper. With this value just slightly raised, we get that variety we are looking for, and paired with the lower pass speed, it gives defenders more of a chance to intercept/deflect.
Shot Speed - 49/49
► A favorite choice here to lower shot speed, but with the acceleration value at 48, the keeper will also be just slightly delayed, giving that late reaction for some brilliant saves or clutching at thin air look. Makes for some fantastic interactions with the ball.
Pass Speed - 45/45
► Since pass speed affects both ground and long balls, it is important that we do lower this so much that every pass feels labored and takes 5 seconds to reach its target. At this value, the marking is good enough in which passes can still be intercepted, and users will still need to give thought to where they are passing. It also allows manual players to enjoy the proper feel of the ball of the players' foot.
Injury Freq - 90/90
► Still brings enough variety as before.
Injury Sev - 40/40
► Again, enough variety and nothing so consistent between multiple users at this point.
GK Ability - 48/48
► With the lowering of shot speed, and acceleration, the GK will be just slightly delayed. It's important that we do not go so low that they become completely delayed with reactions.
Marking - 65/68
► This is one of the key values in the set. It compliments the discrepancy of the line length to determine when the defending midfielder needs to latch onto the oncoming runner.
Run Frequency - 50/50
► For the first time in a long time, this year we actually need a lot of runs. This value is key because it essentially we be the trigger for the "bait" of ensuring the defending midfielder sees a run to latch onto.
● The Height, Length, Width (often referred as "HLW") are quite important to consider for each slider set. This year for FIFA 21 they are essential to be close to default, with the exception of line length, which is explained below. [/color]
Height - 50/50
► We're going to leave it alone for now. By default it feels somewhat low, but every team tactic/instruction makes a difference in some spots.
Length - 40/45
► The core value of the entire set really. It ensures that the user's midfielders are low enough that they can prepare for the oncoming runners, then latch onto them via the marking. For the CPU, it's the same, but because they cannot come off the rails like the user can, we need to give them just a bit more space and marking to prepare. *Note, as the user you still need to manually control your midfielders and practice good tecnhique. This is not a 100% automated process. The FUT/PRO crowd made sure their misguided "AI defending" theories were the norm.*
Width - 50/50
► We're going to leave it alone for now. By default it feels somewhat low, but every team tactic/instruction makes a difference in some spots.
FB Pos - 50/50
► Again, no need to modify this as it can definitely hurt, or help.
FT Control - 50/50
► Keeping this as is because the higher pass error will create the first touch control errors by themselves.
Base Set - Findings 1
Spoiler
Timestamp: 10/06/2020 | 6:32 AM CST --- Okay, I meant to stream yesterday, but got pretty sick out of no where. Worked offline a tad last night, but also this morning, still not 100% health wise. However, I do feel a small breakthrough has been made here in addressing the midfielders tracking back. In these examples, I'm only controlling the forward to see what teammate AI does.
*ignore radar scale as it happens when switching from windowed mode to full screen on pc*
Rotherham - CDM||Macdonald. Notice how deep he gets and how he latches onto runners around him, but not to the point he follows them everywhere.
Checked his instructions - and everything is default/balanced. Team is set to balanced as well.
Crystal Palace - Milo & McArthur. Here I need them to latch onto runs by James and Doucoure, which they do. As a result, they are properly deep enough and not standing idle at the top, or near the D. Both players are set to default instructions, except McArthur gets in the box for crosses.
Team is set to balanced as well.
Crystal Palace - Milo & McArthur. As I mentioned, this is not 100% automated. You will still need some form of input and responsibility to control your defensive duties. In this clip, I could have put a better effort manually, but was testing so I let it go full-auto essentially. As you can see, Milo and McArthur are in the right spots, but they are latching onto runs by James, Allan and Doucure at first. Even though I would have preferred McArthur follow Allan into the box, it is still a good sign that there was a pass-off animation to represent a zonal look.
So, the focus here is understanding that we're not going to get proper shape without some decent manipulation of the sliders. Even then, it's not going to be 100% ideal, but it will be better than default - as is the standard for our experience towards FIFA 21 currently.
Keep in mind, the default values play their role, but there will definitely be room to modify the errors, etc, but for now, I just want to test the important values listed to find a base. There is no point in adjusting anything else if the base does not work. Each default value (especially run frequency) plays a massive role, because the composition of the below values are highly dependent on it.
The important values here are as follows:
- Every slider DEFAULT except...
- World Class (for now)
- Normal game speed
- Sprint: 20, Acceleration: 48
- Marking: 65/65
- Line Length: 40/45
World Class. As it stands, this difficulty seems to be the most balanced. I think Legendary can work, but it will need fine-tuning. I want to stay focused on World Class for now to build the base.
Normal Game speed. The reason for this is because the attitude and urgency seems to be more prevalent than it is on slow. There has been good feedback about the game being coded under normal game speed versus the preferred slow. For now, we'll have to accept it - which is why there are values such as Sprint/Acc adjusted to balance the faster look and feel.
Sprint: 20, Acceleration: 48. This is to balance the game speed of Normal. When going up to Normal speed, the feel and weight of the players becomes pretty slippery. While it's great they position themselves just slightly better, it's hard to gauge stand out players' agility and speed when the controller is in your hands. The animations move much quicker on normal, so the Sprint lowered to 20 (one a lot of us like) is good, and the acceleration at 48 is welcomed when we've had to go up instead in the past.
Marking: 65. I tested multiple teams with this value. The key here is determining the threshold in when the midfielder latches onto the runner. If they pass off too early, they stay idle at the top and do nothing. If it's too high, they follow the runners everywhere. I scaled this and tested various tactics to boot. Passes the test, relative to the slider values in place.
Line Length: 40/45. The only way to force the midfielders to latch on sooner is to compress the area of play, but ensure there is also overlap. If it's 40/40 stock, the midfielder can wait forever until a run is made and will ignore everything else around them until the runner reaches their "force-field". With a discrepancy though, now they are forced to experience the runner sooner, and thus get into position much earlier.
Streamed Version - Work in Progress Set #1 (Early Access)
Spoiler
Timestamp: 10/03/2020 | 10:45 AM CST --- Established a bit more look for a solid set the last couple days. Taking a lot of the FIFA 20, Version 3, set because a lot of similarities are present with FIFA 21.
The main focus here is to get more midfield again. I'm genuinely surprised with how different the game is from the beta - it's a bit disappointing. There were a number issues in the beta, but the way the CPU played was vastly different than how it is now. For example, the chipped balls to the midfield are quite route one - so that needed to be addressed.
Next, and probably the worst, is the fact the CPU will not cross the ball a lot of the time. I spent the better part of 2 days in trying to isolate the trigger point, but there is nothing in the sliders, controls, difficulty, settings or squad file that fixes this issue. I have fed it back to EA, among with the other big issue, which is something that was apparent in FIFA 20 as well due to 1v1 defending - and that is the midfielders do not track back. As a result, you never get the proper bank in front of the defense, so there's never a sense of building numbers defensively. As a result, no matter what, it's 6 v 4 situations (unless you have a back 5), and it just completely ruins the immersion when you see your two central midfielders and wingers not tracking back - just standing there. This is why some values chosen are significantly different than default - and quite high in respect to any intent of using default values.
In the end, it's FIFA. We signed up for this. You knew what you were getting yourself into, didn't you? I know I did. Hope you're ready for the wonderful ride. Here is the current streamed set from my twitch (listed below). If you ever want to see changes in realtime during the stream, jus type in !sliders in the chat.
Please provide feedback as detailed as possible. We need all hands on deck as always. Thank you!
Timestamp: 9/30/2020 | 3:44 PM CST --- Started FIFA 21 OS Community Sliders thread.
FIFA 21 Operation Sports Sliders |||Streamed Version Set||
Explanation of each value listed in Spoilers:
Streamed Version - Work in Progress Set
Spoiler
♦♦♦ Goal: If you played with our FIFA 20 sliders, a lot of what was in Version 3 is applied here in FIFA 21. It's a lot of the same game, with a couple of subtle differences that make for a good experience. Bugs aside (no CPU crossing, central midfielders not tracking back), the game has a solid base that we can work with. The importance is resistance throughout the entire pitch, which should be experienced right away. Some notes are similar, if not the exact same, from FIFA 2.♦♦♦
Sprint - 48/52
► The adjustment of Sprint to be in favor of the CPU is primarily based on their tendency to jockey at random when faced in 1v1 situations down the sidelines or when facing an opposing center-back. This has been a [reported] bug for a while to EA, but still has not been fixed. As a result, we have to keep the CPU in the game, and as a result, Sprint and Acceleration go in favor of the CPU.
Acceleration - 50/51 | 50/52 for Pro and World Class difficulty
► As mentioned in the Sprint section, we have to keep the CPU in the game due to the jockey bug that seems to occur in 1v1 situations. In addition, the slight acceleration discrepancy in the CPU's favor makes it a bit more challenging overall. As the user we will always have the advantage due to the ability to get off the rails of programming (super-cancel for a lot of us), which the CPU does not have.
Shot Error - 70/70
► Really good teams will have variety with their shots on target, but the odd scuffed shot will not be left for just poor quality players - as we want to humanize the CPU here. The combination of shot speed adjusted and GK ability makes for some incredible shooting interactions.
Pass Error - 55/55
► No reason to change this value as it has brought the best balance on the ball between scuffed passes and gorgeous balls over the top. Truly a good way to separate the exceptional players for the rest of the pack.
Shot Speed - 49/49
► This value got a one point increase because it was starting to become noticeable of how often the GK could catch the ball and how shots started to feel softer and softer - especially with such a high shot error at 70. With this return to normal value of 50, the shot variety can stand out.
Pass Speed - 40/40
► Pass speed affects both ground and long ball passes, so just need a small drop here to calm things down - especially when trying to build a good midfield shape.
Injury Freq - 90/90
► Still brings enough variety as before.
Injury Sev - 40/40
► Again, enough variety and nothing so consistent between multiple users at this point.
GK Ability - 40/40
► Need a reactive look to the keeper versus a psychic look that higher values had caused. FIFA's programming is cause and effect, the GK animations are programmed based on the shot animation. We do not want the keeper to start moving as soon as the foot makes contact without even seeing the direction, so this adjustment brings in that sense of just a slight hesitation (and often times reflex) to make some amazing saves - but also more rewarding scoring.
Marking - 78/78
► This along with height will ensure there is less of a gap between the defensive line and midfield. In addition, once marking is raised the overall attitude on the pitch is more aggressive and in anticipation of the ball's movement. It truly "wakes up" the previous stagnant defending players.
Run Frequency - 5/5
► As much as we'd love to play on 50/default run frequency, it just did not make sense when the central midfielders do not track back. Still there is plenty of variety and ball movement.
● The Height, Length, Width (often referred as "HLW") are quite important to consider for each slider set. In the past, we could adjust these values to achieve a lot of the shape we are looking for. However, this year of FIFA 20 in particular is in favor of referring to the team tactics to dominate the HLW more than anything. With that said, this version of the sliders has an aim to get more midfield play and adhere properly to different formations/tactics available.
Height - 100/100
► Such a high number this year. Hoping it's temporary, but for now it is a necessity to get the defensive line and midfield to pay more attention to what is in front of them. The line will still track back when needed of course. If anything, 100 this year, plays like a 70 of previous years.
Length - 46/45
► A very slight discrepancy in favor of the user. This allows the the user's defensive positioning of the midfield to sit just a bit higher to block the forward passing lanes that often resulted in the CPU moving the ball from side-to-side and easily passing to their forward. With this change, they will now to use proper outlets such as pushing all the way to the opposite midfielder or sending a ball over the top - or even playing backwards.
Width - 48/48
► Strength in narrowing the pitch defensively. It keeps every player goal-side as best as possible, with the exception being FBs in a 5-back formation, who stay too wide in that instance. Unfortunately, adjusting for that value can ruin the composition of the set, so it's better to leave as is until FIFA's tactical programming can improve their defending logic.
FB Pos - 5/5
► Allows the fullbacks up the pitch just a bit more, but not so high that they are in constant exposure for counter-attacks and switches over the top. Remember, their positioning is also based highly on team tactics and individual instructions. For example, set your FBs to overlap if you want them to get further up the pitch in the attack.
FT Control - 70/70
► Raised first touch control so they can take just a bit more time to settle the ball before moving on. Of course, exceptional players will stand out more with this value raised - but again, humanizing the players is the goal, so no player is exempt.
I know it's quite the hope, but if the game is anything like the beta, the only value I felt 100% about was lowering pass speed. I definitely explored all the values though and feel like what we learned from FIFA 20 should carry over. What I anticipate though is the run frequency is going to be really important.
Ohh yes , I've been waiting a whole year for this since I skipped FIFA 20 . Going a full year without FIFA has been brutal to say the least . Can't wait to jump in and start testing .
09-30-2020, 04:44 PM
