NHL 15 "build from scratch".. truth or fiction? (vid series)

[DJ NEO]

Hey guys,

this is the 1st video from short "NHL 15 current gen V.S. NHL 14 last gen" series.
In this video we will look at the gameplay itself.

Please keep focused on animations.
Is this game really build from the ground up, or just NHL 13/14 with sharper graphics?

NHL 15 current gen V.S. NHL 14 last gen

What I appereciate gameplay wise in NHL 15 (ps4) is the puck physics.
Thats the main reason I bought this game.

Otherwise tho, Im not very satisfied with gameplay progress from 13/14-15.
Here are the main reasons why:

1) defensive skill stick is missing. Btw., NHL 2k5 (2004) has it.

2) collision detection is WORSE than in NHL 13. Unacceptable period.

3) warping goalies. They are exactly the same (not good) as in NHL 13.

4) "glued/ magnetic puck". Yes, even with better puck physics this year, the are many times when the puck is literally glued to the stick.

5) skating.. there are too many times when a player do a things that just doesnt make any sense.
They turn around in wrong way, doing all kinds of pirouettes etc. Also I feel like they are even closer this year to NHL 12 "floating" which is taking big step back. I like physics based skating in NHL 13 more.

6) auto-switching to a wrong (or last) player. It is broken and frustrating as hell, get rid of it please.

7) auto-passing.. we all know what Im talking about here. Get rid of it. NHL 15 passing feels like playing NHL 94, where all passes has the same rocket speed and was tape to tape = not realistic = NO FUN.

8) AI: Now I feel like offensive ai is kinda smarter, but defensive ai is simple dissaster. Neutral zone doesnt exist in NHL 15 (again)

9) bubbles are still here. I want to see much more small contact animations, small battles for the puck, justling for the positions and all kinds of things that happend on the ice in real life.

10) faceoffs: exactly the same and not very good. Take a note from 2k8 at least.

11) boardplay: exactly the same and not physics based

12) I wanna touch the realtime presentation here too.
Yeah again, not much change from last genereation here. I see too many fadeouts, black frames etc., it is still not finished. I see the same camera angles what I saw 3 years ago every match, I see robotic skating off play, I see terrible movent by referees. It just doesnt feel organic at all. Even today they use few pre-rendered video cutscenes, I saw in NHL 07. Again, please go FULLY REALTIME, no pre-rendered mini movies!
Presentation is already 2-3 years behind the competition (FIFA, NBA 2K)
13) on ice sounds are exactly the same as in Nhl 13/14
So, this is my view (or mini review) of NHL 15 gameplay on PS4/XB1.

[CupCrazyManiac]

Quote from EA Forum:

FuseBox218



Workin_OT wrote:

Before anyone goes on about how having a same animation in 15 as 14 is proof they didn't "build from the ground up", just remember, you are not a developer and probly have next to no knowledge of the work involved that you are trying to discuss (yes there are a few of you here, but 99% of users here have no clue what they are talking about in this regard).



I, myself, also am not a game developer and don't have a clue either. However, I am wise enough to realize that 15 on XB1/PS4 is on a different engine than NHL 14 and previous. I am also wise enough to be able to assume that getting specific animation to work, going from one engine to another (not to mention different cpu/gpu architectures) is not as easy as copy here, paste here. There is more work than that involved, which is extra work the developers never had to deal with going from say NHL 13 - NHL 14 on the same engine. Therefore, technically even if there are the same animations from 14 - 15, there is still extra work that they have not had to do for the last 5+ yearly iterations. +



So when I see the buzz words "built from the ground up", and then see some same animations, I don't automatically come to the uninformed conclusion that they are lying.
----------------------

FuseBox218:


I have a simple solution for this. Since the NHL devs here know that 99% of the community are not developers themselves, maybe they shouldn't use catch phrases like "built from the ground up", because they should know with 100% certainty how that's going to be interpreted. I interpret that to mean a brand new game, brand new engines, and brand new animations. It's the same gameplay basically, it's the same engine basically with the same bugs as years past, and it's basically the same animations as we've had for the past 7-8 years with some exceptions.



This was an intentional marketing phrase geared to entice people into thinking this was a brand new game "built from the ground up" for a completely new NHL experience! Just 5mins of playing it will tell you it is not that.



If they wanted to save themselves, they should've marketed it as "Next Gen coding is built from the ground up, but gameplay and animations are derived directly from years past!" Because this phrase is what OT is saying.



They spent 2yrs (or 1yr and wasted the other year) to introduce new commentary which is horribly repetitive and monotonous, as well as add some nice scenery from each city. I haven't played one HUT game where we actually have any interest in watching the presentation or cut scenes. The priority should've been the game play, modes and features, clearly it wasn't.

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FuseBox218 :



Also, Rammer was specifically asked in an interview, "what is different about this game". He didn't say "it was built from the ground up" or give a marketing talking point.



He said, "basically everything!". Again, 5mins of playing NHL 15 clearly shows that "everything" was not changed. lol In fact most things are the same as always, same bugs, same exploits, same goalie animations.

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nickels55 :



When you say during multiple interviews "WE LITERALLY CHANGED EVERYTHING" - using those exact words, you are setting up high expectations for a new experience. They lied plain and simple. Defend them all day, but they are the ones who "marketed" this game as "Built from the ground up" in the first place, over and over and over again. Spin it, gloss over it, call us dummies because we aren't developers (which I am) but make no mistake we have been given BS info from day one about this game on next gen consoles. Deceptive is an understatement when describing the way Rammer talked up this game prior to its release.

[Vikes1]

In all honesty, it took me awhile to figure out which one was which. Kinda says alot, imo.

[THESHAMISASHAME]

I dont know about scratch 100 % but this game regardless if you liked it or hated it on release played a organic game of hockey with real physics on play now default allstar sliders for me .
And after the update it went back to everything the game used to be years ago and not in a good way so who knows ?

[Vikes1]

Not trying to be overly harsh, but for a new gen game....year one or not, the overall gameplay at this point is disappointing. The goalies are still flakey as hell. Still way too many...wtf's. And at least imo, until major work is done with the goaltending, total lack of NZ play, and very poor player ai....this game is going to continue to disappoint.

[DJ NEO]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vikes1

Not trying to be overly harsh, but for a new gen game....year one or not, the overall gameplay at this point is disappointing. The goalies are still flakey as hell. Still way too many...wtf's. And at least imo, until major work is done with the goaltending, total lack of NZ play, and very poor player ai....this game is going to continue to disappoint.

Agreed.
I appreciate the puck physics a lot, but again.. the game was obviously not build from the ground up.

There is 98% of lastgen animations obviously.
Well passing is new unfortunatelly too.

[drog1602]

This game has had the same code since 08. If cut and paste means "built from the ground up", then I guess it is.

The question should be...how many years till we see a better hockey game. IMO NHL16 will just be the missing game modes patched back in, it will take until NHL18 to perhaps, perhaps, a better game. I say perhaps, because this recent trend towards animations and auto player assists has taken the user control out of the game. Its a sad, sad time for sports gaming.

[actionhank]

I don't even mind that they seem to have imported the engine and gameplay. It's not awful, but the way they continue to not really refine anything is beyond infuriating.

They added new features before, like the boardplay, the new hitting system that got rid of the animation based hitting, and little details like tying up in front of the net, goalie collisions. All things designed to make the game more organic feeling, and all good ideas.
The downside to EA's development is, and has been for as long as I've been playing at least, that they don't seem to take any ideas from initial development to completion. Boardplay was nice to get (back if you believe that they simply brought old code back to the game) but the implementation was restricting, and just a feature that didn't really enhance gameplay, but made it frustrating. Instead of making it something where multiple guys came over, and you actually had to try and fight to get and maintain the puck, it turned into a frustrating mini-game where you got hugged into the boards regardless of speed/size/skill and could kind of slide back and forth, cleaning the glass with your face, but you couldn't really do much else. You could try and kick the puck out to a teammate, but there wasn't any guarantee it went where it was needed, and even if it did, your teammates didn't react until the puck was passed. No one skated in to try and dig the puck out, no one skates along the boards to try and get open, and you don't really get to push off or try to maintain possession. Just just try to scoot and hope the other team doesn't bring a 2nd guy over to easily snatch the puck as you helplessly get smashed.

The hitting was a nice change, with the physics taking over and getting the goofy animations out that resulted in all sorts of weird hits that left people clipping through other players, boards, and the net. But they didn't go anywhere with it. Injuries never really became dependent on the hit placement, or severity, it was essentially just a random game of "What hurts?". An elbow to the head didn't seem to increase the chances of a concussion or upper body injury, you just simply get laid out, and might hurt something in the process. The hitting, even on it's lowest slider settings seems to be overpowered, and there's really no middle ground. Someone seems to either be getting a world-class check that's possibly going to cripple them, or they're getting "checked" but bouncing off the animation leaving you scratching your head as you glide towards empty space with your stick and hands extended, and the other guy keeps moving unaffected. The closest we get is constant cross-checking in the slot, and the player being hit dropping to a knee.

The tying up is going to continue my theme of frustrating additions that are good ideas there were poorly executed. You get sucked in by the AI, and have no ability to really choose to move away, or to even determine if you do it yourself. It segues into the inability to really determine a whole lot that your player does without the puck. You don't really get to choose deflections, attempts on pucks in the air, where you poke check, how hard you stick lift, you can't slash at all, and good luck if you want to stand in the slot and wait to block a shot or pass, because even if you aren't forced to tangle up with the other team leaving you unable to disengage to play the person who actually does have the puck, you'll have a hard time really blocking the pass or shot, because you're limited to a small group of animations to execute, not your skill or judgement.

I'm really hoping EA makes good on the "from the ground up" claim that gets thrown out every year for the NHL series, because it's gone from great to frustratingly bad. I thought of all games, the NHL series would always be a day 1 purchase, and it's a real bummer that this year it's not.