Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

[FCB x Finlay]

Im sure im not the only one but Im having serious problems with movement, especially trying to escape someone holding forward.
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/45486441
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/45481665
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/45487730
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/45486469

just a few clips of what happens when i try. Im not saying im the best but i feel like there nothing i can do. They literally just holding forward the whole time.

If yous want to critise the gameplay thats fine but in my experience you cant move.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/45535778. Showing what happens when you use a lunhe back counter versus 1-2s.
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/45536680. Showing it versus headkicks.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/46393502
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/46393622
Now my main problem with side lunges is that there directly attached to your oppenent so your always in range if they push forward. So tgis limits our options even further.

Any ideas hoe this could be fixed and to allow true movemeny.

[MMA Damage]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

Im sure im not the only one but Im having serious problems with movement, especially trying to escape someone holding forward.
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/45486441
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/45481665
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/45487730
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/45486469

just a few clips of what happens when i try. Im not saying im the best but i feel like there nothing i can do. They literally just holding forward the whole time.

If yous want to critise the gameplay thats fine but in my experience you cant move.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/45535778. Showing what happens when you use a lunhe back counter versus 1-2s.
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/45536680. Showing it versus headkicks.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/46393502
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/FCB%20x%20F...video/46393622
Now my main problem with side lunges is that there directly attached to your oppenent so your always in range if they push forward. So tgis limits our options even further.

Any ideas hoe this could be fixed and to allow true movemeny.

It shouldn't be so hard to create distance, thats the problem. Sometimes fights can be boring with guys who just don't really engage much or really technical striking matches. Not every fight is a brawl.

In ufc 2 lunging was more responsive and I could chain a back and side lunge but thats impossible here. Lunging shouldn't be tied to just a 12, 3, 6, 9 direction. Maybe add diagonal lunges or maybe a circle out animation like mentioned in the other thread by iceberg. Make it like a L1/LB + 9 - 6 o'clock swoop on the LS to circle out to your right for example.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

It is fun to crack them with body knee and the upper elbow into the spinning one. It may be easy to stay glueed, but that doesn't seem to be a dominant strategy for some time (since the body punches big nerf). For the most part, the guys I lose to aren't the ones doing this.

This fight isn't from the current version of the game, but I wonder if it may help as an example of how to catch them with timing and using short range tools:

Spoiler

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nWEaeu5jEgM" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[aholbert32]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

Its impossible to point/outside fight online in the current version of the game. Even with guys with high movement stats. Even with guys with a long reach. Anyone who says differently is either lying or hasnt faced anyone who just pushes forward non-stop.

There are ways to fight against someone pushing forward but none of them involve fighting from the outside or using movement to stay outside.

I've talked to the devs about this and they have a few ideas about how to fix this. Problem is I cant and dont know when those fixes are coming. Also, the devs and many people in the community (online ranked players primarily) are concerned that buffing movement too much could turn the primary meta to running. In fact, some were claiming that was the case before the back lunge frame change that happened last month.

It sucks for online players who fight outside though. When I saw what happened to the back lunge last patch, I just stopped playing online and focused on playing offline (which I'm having a blast doing). Alot of sim players dont care about offline though and they just want to be able to play in a variety of ways whether its inside or outside. Right now that just isnt possible.

[Paledude45]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

I'm not trying to criticize your style of play but those constant backward lunges look SO BAD! Is that how they're supposed to be used in this game, is that how you're supposed to create distance, by spamming lunges and making it look like your fighter is convulsing?

In UFC 2 it was much easier to use backwards and lateral movement, I could fight just as well off my back foot then I could going forward, and if I wanted to I could apply pressure as well.

What if they just sped up the movement in general. I've been saying since launch that the fighters feel like they're stuck in the mud, nobody seems to be saying anything. At least in the LW, WW, and MW classes fighters feel very slow, when it reality guys like Barboza have quick feet. Just give the movement a speed boost, make the fighters more mobile, we can use footwork to get in and out of range, get into the killzone fire one off and then retreat. But also it make so that players who like to pressure aren't left out. There just needs to be more balance.

[SteveM584]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

Its impossible to point/outside fight online in the current version of the game. Even with guys with high movement stats. Even with guys with a long reach. Anyone who says differently is either lying or hasnt faced anyone who just pushes forward non-stop.

There are ways to fight against someone pushing forward but none of them involve fighting from the outside or using movement to stay outside.

I've talked to the devs about this and they have a few ideas about how to fix this. Problem is I cant and dont know when those fixes are coming. Also, the devs and many people in the community (online ranked players primarily) are concerned that buffing movement too much could turn the primary meta to running. In fact, some were claiming that was the case before the back lunge frame change that happened last month.

It sucks for online players who fight outside though. When I saw what happened to the back lunge last patch, I just stopped playing online and focused on playing offline (which I'm having a blast doing). Alot of sim players dont care about offline though and they just want to be able to play in a variety of ways whether its inside or outside. Right now that just isnt possible.

The only guy I have some success with is mighty mouse at BW because he's so much faster then most of the division, but the Cody hook spammers can usually stay in my face pretty effectively still and it only takes a few to get my chin in trouble.

But yes in general outside fighting is still very difficult.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

Its impossible to point/outside fight online in the current version of the game. Even with guys with high movement stats. Even with guys with a long reach. Anyone who says differently is either lying or hasnt faced anyone who just pushes forward non-stop.

There are ways to fight against someone pushing forward but none of them involve fighting from the outside or using movement to stay outside.

I've talked to the devs about this and they have a few ideas about how to fix this. Problem is I cant and dont know when those fixes are coming. Also, the devs and many people in the community (online ranked players primarily) are concerned that buffing movement too much could turn the primary meta to running. In fact, some were claiming that was the case before the back lunge frame change that happened last month.

It sucks for online players who fight outside though. When I saw what happened to the back lunge last patch, I just stopped playing online and focused on playing offline (which I'm having a blast doing). Alot of sim players dont care about offline though and they just want to be able to play in a variety of ways whether its inside or outside. Right now that just isnt possible.

Wow

So the phonebooth meta is intentional.

“Running” should be a viable tactic. In MMA cutting off the cage is an essential skill.

If real life worked the way this game does the Diaz bros would be unstoppable because TDs would be easy to deny and nobody could create distance.

Please keep speaking up about movement. You and ZombieRommel are my heros

[aholbert32]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

Wow

So the phonebooth meta is intentional.

“Running” should be a viable tactic. In MMA cutting off the cage is an essential skill.

If real life worked the way this game does the Diaz bros would be unstoppable because TDs would be easy to deny and nobody could create distance.

Please keep speaking up about movement. You and ZombieRommel are my heros

I think "intentional" is a bit strong. The reality is most people (especially the majority of top level online players) use a mid to inside range style. So they are WAY more vocal about issues related to inside fighting (head movement, combo speed, vulnerability off of sways and combos). So the devs seem to tackle those issues first. Also, those issues seem to be easier to tweak through a content update.

I'll give you an example. There are 6 gamechangers. I would say 2 are actively concerned and vocal about outside fighting. I am one of them. The others are either neutral or actively concerned about running becoming the new meta. Its an honest divide. Some see outside fighting/running as something that requires less skill than inside fighting. I disagree with that completely.

Like I said its on the dev's radar but I cant be one of the few people fighting for this. I dont have any real pull when it comes to this issue primarily because I'm an offline player (and a low level online player at that). So its really up to the community to consistently highlight this as a problem so it gets moved up the fix list.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

I think "intentional" is a bit strong. The reality is most people (especially the majority of top level online players) use a mid to inside range style. So they are WAY more vocal about issues related to inside fighting (head movement, combo speed, vulnerability off of sways and combos). So the devs seem to tackle those issues first. Also, those issues seem to be easier to tweak through a content update.

I'll give you an example. There are 6 gamechangers. I would say 2 are actively concerned and vocal about outside fighting. I am one of them. The others are either neutral or actively concerned about running becoming the new meta. Its an honest divide. Some see outside fighting/running as something that requires less skill than inside fighting. I disagree with that completely.

Like I said its on the dev's radar but I cant be one of the few people fighting for this. I dont have any real pull when it comes to this issue primarily because I'm an offline player (and a low level online player at that). So its really up to the community to consistently highlight this as a problem so it gets moved up the fix list.

“Some see outside fighting/running as something that requires less skill than inside fighting.”

See, I can fully understand/respect a difference in opinion if someone prefers fighting inside or if they are worried outside fighting becomes too powerful.

But that is just flat out frustrating to know that people the Devs communicate with the most have an opinion like that.

Having footwork,distance management, timing all take indefinitely more skill than swaying/praying.

The majority of fighters play inside-mid because it’s what’s most effective right now. Most players just want to win and will flock to whatever keeps them competitive.

I dont even think keeping distance should be easy unless you have a substantial footwork advantage. Fighters should have to play to their ratings to be successful. Right now everyone fights the exact same and the way the game is “balanced” encourages that.

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

I think "intentional" is a bit strong. The reality is most people (especially the majority of top level online players) use a mid to inside range style. So they are WAY more vocal about issues related to inside fighting (head movement, combo speed, vulnerability off of sways and combos). So the devs seem to tackle those issues first. Also, those issues seem to be easier to tweak through a content update.



I'll give you an example. There are 6 gamechangers. I would say 2 are actively concerned and vocal about outside fighting. I am one of them. The others are either neutral or actively concerned about running becoming the new meta. Its an honest divide. Some see outside fighting/running as something that requires less skill than inside fighting. I disagree with that completely.



Like I said its on the dev's radar but I cant be one of the few people fighting for this. I dont have any real pull when it comes to this issue primarily because I'm an offline player (and a low level online player at that). So its really up to the community to consistently highlight this as a problem so it gets moved up the fix list.

I couldn’t agree with you more about movement and outside fighting needing a buff. I have played more than enough online/UT matches to know this. I hope more people say something too.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Zeta Reticulan1]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

“Some see outside fighting/running as something that requires less skill than inside fighting.”

See, I can fully understand/respect a difference in opinion if someone prefers fighting inside or if they are worried outside fighting becomes too powerful.

But that is just flat out frustrating to know that people the Devs communicate with the most have an opinion like that.

Having footwork,distance management, timing all take indefinitely more skill than swaying/praying.
.

This ^




Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[aholbert32]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

“Some see outside fighting/running as something that requires less skill than inside fighting.”

See, I can fully understand/respect a difference in opinion if someone prefers fighting inside or if they are worried outside fighting becomes too powerful.

But that is just flat out frustrating to know that people the Devs communicate with the most have an opinion like that.

Having footwork,distance management, timing all take indefinitely more skill than swaying/praying.

The majority of fighters play inside-mid because it’s what’s most effective right now. Most players just want to win and will flock to whatever keeps them competitive.

I dont even think keeping distance should be easy unless you have a substantial footwork advantage. Fighters should have to play to their ratings to be successful. Right now everyone fights the exact same and the way the game is “balanced” encourages that.

I dont know if thats true. I was talking to one of the GCs about outside fighting before the last patch (when you could still back dash to create space) and he said (and showed me) that he could fight an outside style and win on a top level. He even said that to him it was easier to fight that style than an inside one. He didnt want to because he considered it "boring." Other GCs agreed with him and plenty of people outside the GCs see it that way.

The inside style isnt necessarily "sway and pray" either. These guys read their opponents patterns and counter those patterns. That takes alot of skill.

Here is the problem facing the whole series and one that I dont think EA has answered yet: Is EA UFC a MMA simulation or is it a MMA game with some realistic elements?

If its a sim, outside fighting isnt a concern. If someone is "running", thats fine because people "run" sometimes (see Gustaffson's last few fights.). If its a game where the focus is more on the "fun" than "realism" side then I understand why an inside fighting style would be encouraged.

Whats funny is "outside/inside fighting" isnt where this divide is seen the most. Its with stats. For example, these are 3 examples of questions people (GCs and community members) have asked me over the past few weeks:

What do you think about buffing Saki's grappling so that he is viable on ranked?
What do you think about nerfing Khabib so that he isnt so dominant on the ground?
Can we buff Holloway's stamina so that he is more viable?

Now if you are looking at this as if its a game, all 3 of those requests are reasonable because it would create more viable fighters for online ranked and thats a good thing.

If you look at it like a MMA sim, the answer to all of those questions is likely no. Saki hasnt shown any grappling skills and doesnt have a grappling background so he doesnt deserve a buff. Khabib is a dominant grappler so he should dominate the LW division on the ground. Holloway is already the highest rated fighter when it comes to standing stamina in the game (he doesnt have the late round perks that Edgar does though).

My answer was no to all 3 because my focus is on realism but people have been upset with that because im not really flexible when it comes to stuff thats based in how the fighters really are.

Anyway, I say all this to say this is an issue thats greater than just outside fighting.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

Is there anyway you can get that GC to provide footage of this outside fighting?

I’ve seen dudes like Zombie become insanely good at creating whiff animations with dashes (which the window for should be tied to footwork) but still not able to actually maintain distance. I’ve yet to see anyone mimic Stephen Thompson’s style. Or even do what Condit did to Nick

And I def get that the highest level dudes are all about prediction. I didnt mean to imply they are all sway n prayers. But that’s the meta for 95% of players.

But you’re right in regards to the question being is it a simulation or a MMA game. The responses from the Devs make me believe they want a simulation with video game elements, not the other way around.

I appreciate the detailed responses tho. Im just frustrated that the meta for this game is straying from realistic concepts for the sake of video game balance.

[Boiler569]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

IMO Online Ranked should be 80% Sim and 20% Game. Not 100% Sim because that's impossible

Even if that creates some imbalances.

The imbalances can be ironed out by rewarding people who use low-rated fighters *a lot* more than currently (i.e. If you're Smolka and beat DJ you should get +5 points for Rating Differential, not just +1). As an example.

For LECs --- Balance is created by setting everyone's stats the same, which is fair IMO. Especially when you can only choose one of two fighters

(Speaking of which...first LEC for Khabib Ferg??? Maybe?? lol)


My tendency is to be an inside fighter for sure. But I've specifically been working a lot on (trying) to fight outside in EA UFC 3 to combat sway spammers & overall improve my game.

Its definitely not impossible. But definitely not easy. Takes a lot of patience, and can be a bit boring. But sometimes it's the only way to beat these hyperactive children mashing buttons and doing 80 sway/duck uppercuts per round smh

That said, I still feel 'stuck in the mud' with most fighters. I have had a lot of fun with Cruz and Dillashaw at BW though. They move around quite nicely.

IDK definitely some improvements to be made all around but on the right track I think

[aholbert32]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

Is there anyway you can get that GC to provide footage of this outside fighting?

I’ve seen dudes like Zombie become insanely good at creating whiff animations with dashes (which the window for should be tied to footwork) but still not able to actually maintain distance. I’ve yet to see anyone mimic Stephen Thompson’s style. Or even do what Condit did to Nick

And I def get that the highest level dudes are all about prediction. I didnt mean to imply they are all sway n prayers. But that’s the meta for 95% of players.

But you’re right in regards to the question being is it a simulation or a MMA game. The responses from the Devs make me believe they want a simulation with video game elements, not the other way around.

I appreciate the detailed responses tho. Im just frustrated that the meta for this game is straying from realistic concepts for the sake of video game balance.

That footage is pre patch so I doubt he even has it or is willing to post it. Pre patch, you could use the lunge to do the Condit thing. I've done it and I've seen others do it. Is it as smooth as what Carlos was doing in real life because you cant circle off the cage as easily but it was possible then with the right fighter with a high footwork rating.