Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

[aholbert32]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

IMO Online Ranked should be 80% Sim and 20% Game. Not 100% Sim because that's impossible

Even if that creates some imbalances.

The imbalances can be ironed out by rewarding people who use low-rated fighters *a lot* more than currently (i.e. If you're Smolka and beat DJ you should get +5 points for Rating Differential, not just +1). As an example.

For LECs --- Balance is created by setting everyone's stats the same, which is fair IMO. Especially when you can only choose one of two fighters

(Speaking of which...first LEC for Khabib Ferg??? Maybe?? lol)


My tendency is to be an inside fighter for sure. But I've specifically been working a lot on (trying) to fight outside in EA UFC 3 to combat sway spammers & overall improve my game.

Its definitely not impossible. But definitely not easy. Takes a lot of patience, and can be a bit boring. But sometimes it's the only way to beat these hyperactive children mashing buttons and doing 80 sway/duck uppercuts per round smh

That said, I still feel 'stuck in the mud' with most fighters. I have had a lot of fun with Cruz and Dillashaw at BW though. They move around quite nicely.

IDK definitely some improvements to be made all around but on the right track I think

I think our definitions of outside are different. When I say "outside", I mean the fighter never enters the pocket, uses his length and his style is primarily defensive while using movement (not head movement) to defend.

I'm not talking about an in and out style (which is also difficult but not impossible). I'm talking about someone who is picking you off from the outside.

[TheRizzzle]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

I'd love to have a circle out animation/control (Aldo uses this really well in evading attacks) and also have the ability to do that run and reposition tactic we've seen McGregor/Gus/Condit/Overeem do.

The counters for these mechanisms are fairly simple.

1)Users need to understand how to cut the Octagon in half and trap fighters trying to circle, which you can already do with the side to side animations in the game.

2)There should be stamina drains for these evasive maneuvers. Gus and McGregor slowed down considerably in later rounds where they've employed these tactics. Having to be aware of how often you are running would limit how many times someone would go to the well, especially considering that the have other defensive options too.

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[TheRizzzle]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

Not to mention that being able to run and circle can be seen as an offensive set up as well. Overeem caught Stipe chasing him. Stipe caught Werdum chasing him. Jones didn't necessarily run but he was able to take advantage of DC doing a poor job cutting off the cage (he followed Jones all fight and eventually lure him into his head kick trap).

If the judging is based on damage then running alone will only allow you to survive a fight, not win it. That's a factor too. You'll have to attack at some point and the non-running fighter will have to exercise patience. They should also have a stamina advantage in later rounds. Would also make a 3-round fight feel different than a 5-round fight.

And if you wanted to get super advanced, you could have some sort of warning/point deduction mechanism if the amount of running to strike ratio gets out of wack. So if you've been spamming the run mechanism and haven't thrown much, the ref could watn and then take a point away for timidity. Sort of like the stand up from the ground and breaking up the clinch ref mechanisms.

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[Thetruth9012]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

I think "intentional" is a bit strong. The reality is most people (especially the majority of top level online players) use a mid to inside range style. So they are WAY more vocal about issues related to inside fighting (head movement, combo speed, vulnerability off of sways and combos). So the devs seem to tackle those issues first. Also, those issues seem to be easier to tweak through a content update.

I'll give you an example. There are 6 gamechangers. I would say 2 are actively concerned and vocal about outside fighting. I am one of them. The others are either neutral or actively concerned about running becoming the new meta. Its an honest divide. Some see outside fighting/running as something that requires less skill than inside fighting. I disagree with that completely.

Like I said its on the dev's radar but I cant be one of the few people fighting for this. I dont have any real pull when it comes to this issue primarily because I'm an offline player (and a low level online player at that). So its really up to the community to consistently highlight this as a problem so it gets moved up the fix list.

We had a big thread about outsde fighting i believe sergenti made this thread.

So its not like the new problem.

I see people conatatly talking about outside fighting being broken im this game.


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[Phillyboi207]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

We had a big thread about outsde fighting i believe sergenti made this thread.

So its not like the new problem.

I see people conatatly talking about outside fighting being broken im this game.


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They actually nerfed it since then lol

[aholbert32]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

We had a big thread about outsde fighting i believe sergenti made this thread.

So its not like the new problem.

I see people conatatly talking about outside fighting being broken im this game.


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I see way more talk about inside issues than movement and outside fighting. Even now. That doesnt mean there havent been threads. Just that more people are complaining about the other issues.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

I think a lot of people get confused with what outside fighting is, so thats why i put point fighting in the title also. In simple terms outside fighting is fighting outside of range of your oppenent mainly using long straight punches, distance creating kicks and a mix of footwork and headmovement to escape the "pocket".

How many times have you seen someone like steven thompson trapped in the pocket with someone, he will move into the horse riding stance which is basically a squared stance which allows him to move laterally and fire single straight shots of both sides.

Im not to sure how people can find true outside fighting boring, it doesnt mean always mean counter fighting.

[bram]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

I think we should also be able to change movement speed voluntarily and how it affects the stamina and vice versa.
Outside fighting and inside fighting is tough considering how hard it is to create distance from an agressive fighter as well as how hard it is to be in range and inside; and land strikes from there. It is this difference that makes combos,head movement block,single strikes tactical.

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[bram]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

I dont know if thats true. I was talking to one of the GCs about outside fighting before the last patch (when you could still back dash to create space) and he said (and showed me) that he could fight an outside style and win on a top level. He even said that to him it was easier to fight that style than an inside one. He didnt want to because he considered it "boring." Other GCs agreed with him and plenty of people outside the GCs see it that way.

The inside style isnt necessarily "sway and pray" either. These guys read their opponents patterns and counter those patterns. That takes alot of skill.

Here is the problem facing the whole series and one that I dont think EA has answered yet: Is EA UFC a MMA simulation or is it a MMA game with some realistic elements?

If its a sim, outside fighting isnt a concern. If someone is "running", thats fine because people "run" sometimes (see Gustaffson's last few fights.). If its a game where the focus is more on the "fun" than "realism" side then I understand why an inside fighting style would be encouraged.

Whats funny is "outside/inside fighting" isnt where this divide is seen the most. Its with stats. For example, these are 3 examples of questions people (GCs and community members) have asked me over the past few weeks:

What do you think about buffing Saki's grappling so that he is viable on ranked?
What do you think about nerfing Khabib so that he isnt so dominant on the ground?
Can we buff Holloway's stamina so that he is more viable?

Now if you are looking at this as if its a game, all 3 of those requests are reasonable because it would create more viable fighters for online ranked and thats a good thing.

If you look at it like a MMA sim, the answer to all of those questions is likely no. Saki hasnt shown any grappling skills and doesnt have a grappling background so he doesnt deserve a buff. Khabib is a dominant grappler so he should dominate the LW division on the ground. Holloway is already the highest rated fighter when it comes to standing stamina in the game (he doesnt have the late round perks that Edgar does though).

My answer was no to all 3 because my focus is on realism but people have been upset with that because im not really flexible when it comes to stuff thats based in how the fighters really are.

Anyway, I say all this to say this is an issue thats greater than just outside fighting.

If it's a sim outside fighting should be a concern right?

[aholbert32]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

If it's a sim outside fighting should be a concern right?

What I mean by that is that the devs and players wouldn’t be concerned that outside fighting could be considered running. They would embrace that as a potential style because it’s a style that appears in real life.


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[FCB x Finlay]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

What I mean by that is that the devs and players wouldn’t be concerned that outside fighting could be considered running. They would embrace that as a potential style because it’s a style that appears in real life.


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Who actually runs and never engages? I know its peoples preferences but its not exactly boring

[aholbert32]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

Who actually runs and never engages? I know its peoples preferences but its not exactly boring

I don’t know but let some of these ranked players tell it....it would happen all the time if we allowed more outside movement options. I obviously disagree.


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[FCB x Finlay]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

I don’t know but let some of these ranked players tell it....it would happen all the time if we allowed more outside movement options. I obviously disagree.


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I still havent seen any clips of outside movement being successful, im sure youd also like to see it.

[aholbert32]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

I still havent seen any clips of outside movement being successful, im sure youd also like to see it.

True outside fighting...no. With the old backdash, you could simulate it somewhat using fighters with high footwork stats. It wasnt perfect at all but it was alot closer to what we can currently do.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: Outside/point fighting or movement in general?

True outside fighting...no. With the old backdash, you could simulate it somewhat using fighters with high footwork stats. It wasnt perfect at all but it was alot closer to what we can currently do.

Did you watch any off mine. I tried to play as realistically as possible.