Dominick Cruz' stance and movement

[Kingslayer04]

Okay, so I saw some videos where people have been trying to play as Dominick Cruz as accurately as they can (Martial Mind, RomeroXVII) and fair play to them, I know they are trying their best, but what comes out on the screen doesn't really look like Cruz (and that's not their fault). I know EA have been trying to make him, specifically, as unique as possible, but the fact is he has about 5 or 6 signature items assigned to him - 2 lunges, 2 lunging strikes and about 2 signature combos. That's it. However, Cruz is all about a movement style no one else can match, albeit some try, and in result he looks completely different to anyone else in the entire roster. In the game, he's not really different to any top tier fighter with good footwork in terms of feel (Wonderboy is one exception). Everyone knows Cruz is all about bouncing and dancing, in and out in extremely unique fashion, and with a great deal of speed and effortlessness. Speed, which in my opinion you can only see in DJ's movement in the game - I've always thought he is insanely fast and no fellow flyweight even comes close, let alone a heavier fighter. Some are pretty quick though.

Now, there's one character in another game who is programmed to move in a similar way, and I've been wondering if this can translate to Dom in the next UFC game - I'm talking about Eddy from Tekken. Here's a gif for those of you who aren't familiar with that movement:



As you can see, Eddy is fleet footed even when in place. I think it would be amazing if Cruz can be programmed to have a similar motion animation, which would be combined with movement speed such as DJ's in the game to create the perfect Dominick Cruz experience. In and out, left and right, over and under with ease.

Now, since he will be so fast and unorthodox and basically constantly in motion, which I believe should result in easier implementation of an evasive gameplan, I think to balance all that movement, he should be a little bit more susceptible to leg kicks. Perhaps a lower leg health rating will do, or maybe he would have an inbuilt grain of leg kick vulnerability, just a little bit, to reflect the fact he's in motion after all. TJ Dillashaw showed that that's a very viable way of dealing with that sort of movement (even if it wasn't enough to win him the fight) and also, Dominick does have health problems with his legs and feet anyway.

Another thing - although Cruz never really gasses out and maintains an incredible pace for 5 rounds every time, even he gets tired. As the fight goes on, maybe in the championship rounds, his movement is still fast and sharp, but he's a little bit more flat-footed and takes a big breath before his next explosion of movement, be it a strike or a lunge. That means a second unique movement animation is warranted after his stamina hits, say, 50-55%. One that would hopefully derive naturally from the fresh one - still a fast one, still a bouncy one, just not quite as fast and not covering as much distance as easily, as he is tired, but unique - this is what's most important.

These ideas are not 100% thought out, they are not necessarily the finished article - I was hoping to get a discussion going as I'm interested in what you guys think and what ideas you may have. It's a longish post, so thanks for the attention! Thoughts?

[1212headkick]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kingslayer04

Okay, so I saw some videos where people have been trying to play as Dominick Cruz as accurately as they can (Martial Mind, RomeroXVII) and fair play to them, I know they are trying their best, but what comes out on the screen doesn't really look like Cruz (and that's not their fault). I know EA have been trying to make him, specifically, as unique as possible, but the fact is he has about 5 or 6 signature items assigned to him - 2 lunges, 2 lunging strikes and about 2 signature combos. That's it. However, Cruz is all about a movement style no one else can match, albeit some try, and in result he looks completely different to anyone else in the entire roster. In the game, he's not really different to any top tier fighter with good footwork in terms of feel (Wonderboy is one exception). Everyone knows Cruz is all about bouncing and dancing, in and out in extremely unique fashion, and with a great deal of speed and effortlessness. Speed, which in my opinion you can only see in DJ's movement in the game - I've always thought he is insanely fast and no fellow flyweight even comes close, let alone a heavier fighter. Some are pretty quick though. Now, there's one character in another game who is programmed to move in a similar way, and I've been wondering if this can translate to Dom in the next UFC game - I'm talking about Eddy from Tekken. Here's a gif for those of you who aren't familiar with that movement: As you can see, Eddy is fleet footed even when in place. I think it would be amazing if Cruz can be programmed to have a similar motion animation, which would be combined with movement speed such as DJ's in the game to create the perfect Dominick Cruz experience. In and out, left and right, over and under with ease. Now, since he will be so fast and unorthodox and basically constantly in motion, which I believe should result in easier implementation of an evasive gameplan, I think to balance all that movement, he should be a little bit more susceptible to leg kicks. Perhaps a lower leg health rating will do, or maybe he would have an inbuilt grain of leg kick vulnerability, just a little bit, to reflect the fact he's in motion after all. TJ Dillashaw showed that that's a very viable way of dealing with that sort of movement (even if it wasn't enough to win him the fight) and also, Dominick does have health problems with his legs and feet anyway. Another thing - although Cruz never really gasses out and maintains an incredible pace for 5 rounds every time, even he gets tired. As the fight goes on, maybe in the championship rounds, his movement is still fast and sharp, but he's a little bit more flat-footed and takes a big breath before his next explosion of movement, be it a strike or a lunge. That means a second unique movement animation is warranted after his stamina hits, say, 50-55%. One that would hopefully derive naturally from the fresh one - still a fast one, still a bouncy one, just not quite as fast and not covering as much distance as easily, as he is tired, but unique - this is what's most important. These ideas are not 100% thought out, they are not necessarily the finished article - I was hoping to get a discussion going as I'm interested in what you guys think and what ideas you may have. It's a longish post, so thanks for the attention! Thoughts?

I dont think arcade fighters are a good place to draw ideas. They need to cough up the dough for his mocap. Only way were getting authentic dominiick cruz. Alot of corners were cut for motion capture. Thats why cajun did most of the mocap

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1212headkick

I dont think arcade fighters are a good place to draw ideas. They need to cough up the dough for his mocap. Only way were getting authentic dominiick cruz. Alot of corners were cut for motion capture. Thats why cajun did most of the mocap

Lol. You have no idea what you are talking about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[1212headkick]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Lol. You have no idea what you are talking about. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

"Johnson isn’t in the video game – and until fighter compensation is introduced, he is happy about that. Ironically, Johnson helped with the game at EA Sports headquarters in Vancouver – he did motion capture for many characters. And because of that, he made more money from EA Sports UFC 3 than nearly all other fighters (a few other fighters did motion capture, too, per Johnson).- bloody elbow".

Please dont insult my intelligence. Ive followed this game before it even came out. The fighters arent very keen to do mocap if they arent even being paid well from the game. At least pay them to do their own mocap instead of cajan whos about as low teir of a fighter as they come. I know more than you assume.

[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kingslayer04

Okay, so I saw some videos where people have been trying to play as Dominick Cruz as accurately as they can (Martial Mind, RomeroXVII) and fair play to them, I know they are trying their best, but what comes out on the screen doesn't really look like Cruz (and that's not their fault). I know EA have been trying to make him, specifically, as unique as possible, but the fact is he has about 5 or 6 signature items assigned to him - 2 lunges, 2 lunging strikes and about 2 signature combos. That's it. However, Cruz is all about a movement style no one else can match, albeit some try, and in result he looks completely different to anyone else in the entire roster. In the game, he's not really different to any top tier fighter with good footwork in terms of feel (Wonderboy is one exception). Everyone knows Cruz is all about bouncing and dancing, in and out in extremely unique fashion, and with a great deal of speed and effortlessness. Speed, which in my opinion you can only see in DJ's movement in the game - I've always thought he is insanely fast and no fellow flyweight even comes close, let alone a heavier fighter. Some are pretty quick though. Now, there's one character in another game who is programmed to move in a similar way, and I've been wondering if this can translate to Dom in the next UFC game - I'm talking about Eddy from Tekken. Here's a gif for those of you who aren't familiar with that movement: As you can see, Eddy is fleet footed even when in place. I think it would be amazing if Cruz can be programmed to have a similar motion animation, which would be combined with movement speed such as DJ's in the game to create the perfect Dominick Cruz experience. In and out, left and right, over and under with ease. Now, since he will be so fast and unorthodox and basically constantly in motion, which I believe should result in easier implementation of an evasive gameplan, I think to balance all that movement, he should be a little bit more susceptible to leg kicks. Perhaps a lower leg health rating will do, or maybe he would have an inbuilt grain of leg kick vulnerability, just a little bit, to reflect the fact he's in motion after all. TJ Dillashaw showed that that's a very viable way of dealing with that sort of movement (even if it wasn't enough to win him the fight) and also, Dominick does have health problems with his legs and feet anyway. Another thing - although Cruz never really gasses out and maintains an incredible pace for 5 rounds every time, even he gets tired. As the fight goes on, maybe in the championship rounds, his movement is still fast and sharp, but he's a little bit more flat-footed and takes a big breath before his next explosion of movement, be it a strike or a lunge. That means a second unique movement animation is warranted after his stamina hits, say, 50-55%. One that would hopefully derive naturally from the fresh one - still a fast one, still a bouncy one, just not quite as fast and not covering as much distance as easily, as he is tired, but unique - this is what's most important. These ideas are not 100% thought out, they are not necessarily the finished article - I was hoping to get a discussion going as I'm interested in what you guys think and what ideas you may have. It's a longish post, so thanks for the attention! Thoughts?

Good post.

Don't forget that Cruz is about pressure as well, constant pressure and that's what usually gets guy to overcommit on their strikes to hit him, only for him to capitalize like when Faber loaded up that rear hook/overhand only to get taken down to the mat with ease.

And, people seem to forget that Cruz is aware people have tried to kick his legs when he's moving the way he does, he hits takedowns off of their leg kicks or stops his motion to interrupt them mid leg kick. The only person that I recall that had success with leg kicks against Cruz was Dillashaw in rounds 4-5, but he had gotten taken down off of those leg kicks/body kicks in round 2-3 before changing up his tempo. The signature lunges are already susceptible to leg kicks, hence why you can't really over do it. So I would leave that alone. And despite his OUTSIDE of the cage leg health issues, nobody has really capitilized on it inside the cage aside from TJ, so his leg health is fine the way it is. He was never beat down via leg kicks like Melendez was against Stephens, or how Aldo worked Faber, Lamas, Edgar with them, and he fought in the cage with said leg issues and was still able to win. That's Toughness right there.

He takes a deep breath because one, he's human and because the style that he implements does require a lot of energy, but two he has never been necessarily gassed out doing so. A secondary animation isn't necessary at 50%-55% stamina because he has proven that he can still move more or less the same way in MULTIPLE bouts in the later rounds.

I don't know if you're aware of this, but once your stamina hits the point where you're visibly fatigued you are unable to use the signature lunges those are fine the way they are.

With regards to Eddy, that's just an idle animation that really has no effect on his striking once you play the game enough. That's all it is, an idle animation unless something has changed in Tekken that I'm not aware of. I like Cruz's idle stance right now.

Also consider the camera angles in UFC 3 vs UD3. Certain People said there was no circling done even though I had moved laterally to cut off the cage for my opponent, something that Cruz does a lot: See, vs Jorgensen, Mizugaki, Faber X2.

I wonder if that camera angle could be added as an option for UFC 3.

On the topic of signature strikes, Dillashaw needs a jab- signature lunge switch stance hook to be set for him, along with his ducking roundhouse kick from the lunge. And a 90 TD O.

And every other move I have been suggesting based on fight footage for Cruz/TJ over the course of the last week damnit.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1212headkick

"Johnson isn’t in the video game – and until fighter compensation is introduced, he is happy about that. Ironically, Johnson helped with the game at EA Sports headquarters in Vancouver – he did motion capture for many characters. And because of that, he made more money from EA Sports UFC 3 than nearly all other fighters (a few other fighters did motion capture, too, per Johnson).- bloody elbow". Please dont insult my intelligence. Ive followed this game before it even came out. The fighters arent very keen to do mocap if they arent even being paid well from the game. At least pay them to do their own mocap instead of cajan whos about as low teir of a fighter as they come. I know more than you assume.

You read an article and still have no idea what you are talking about.

Kajan did the mocap because he fights out of Vancouver and he was willing to regularly come to EA Canada. Same with Sim Bhullar and the Pride Kickboxer they used for some of the mocap. Yes, they paid him (I never disputed that) but the reason Cruz or other fighters real life movement arent directly mo capped isnt because "EA cut corners" or because "they wont cough up the dough for his mo cap".

You talk alot but you know very little about the behind the scenes of the game. Stop acting like you do.

[Kingslayer04]

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

Good post. Don't forget that Cruz is about pressure as well, constant pressure and that's what usually gets guy to overcommit on their strikes to hit him, only for him to capitalize like when Faber loaded up that rear hook/overhand only to get taken down to the mat with ease. And, people seem to forget that Cruz is aware people have tried to kick his legs when he's moving the way he does, he hits takedowns off of their leg kicks or stops his motion to interrupt them mid leg kick. The only person that I recall that had success with leg kicks against Cruz was Dillashaw in rounds 4-5, but he had gotten taken down off of those leg kicks/body kicks in round 2-3 before changing up his tempo. The signature lunges are already susceptible to leg kicks, hence why you can't really over do it. So I would leave that alone. And despite his OUTSIDE of the cage leg health issues, nobody has really capitilized on it inside the cage aside from TJ, so his leg health is fine the way it is. He was never beat down via leg kicks like Melendez was against Stephens, or how Aldo worked Faber, Lamas, Edgar with them, and he fought in the cage with said leg issues and was still able to win. That's Toughness right there. He takes a deep breath because one, he's human and because the style that he implements does require a lot of energy, but two he has never been necessarily gassed out doing so. A secondary animation isn't necessary at 50%-55% stamina because he has proven that he can still move more or less the same way in MULTIPLE bouts in the later rounds. I don't know if you're aware of this, but once your stamina hits the point where you're visibly fatigued you are unable to use the signature lunges those are fine the way they are. With regards to Eddy, that's just an idle animation that really has no effect on his striking once you play the game enough. That's all it is, an idle animation unless something has changed in Tekken that I'm not aware of. I like Cruz's idle stance right now. Also consider the camera angles in UFC 3 vs UD3. Certain People said there was no circling done even though I had moved laterally to cut off the cage for my opponent, something that Cruz does a lot: See, vs Jorgensen, Mizugaki, Faber X2. I wonder if that camera angle could be added as an option for UFC 3. On the topic of signature strikes, Dillashaw needs a jab- signature lunge switch stance hook to be set for him, along with his ducking roundhouse kick from the lunge. And a 90 TD O. And every other move I have been suggesting based on fight footage for Cruz/TJ over the course of the last week damnit.

You made a point how Cruz's leg and feet issues have never been exploited in the cage - this is a very good point. This is absolutely true, I just offered it as a possible reason as to why there could be some drawbacks to his leg health, but it wasn't really any definitive argument.

As for Eddy's motion, yes, he idles that way and it does nothing in itself, apart from maybe inherently masking his next move, which actually is part of my vision for Cruz as well. My idea was to have Cruz bounce and dance like that while moving as well, though. This, plus added speed to make him as fleet-footed as possible. Effortless and anything but stationary and plodding. I hope you get what I'm saying.

As for the secondary animation after he gets tired - you may have a point there, that it isn't needed, but I maintain that he can get tired and I do not equate that to being gassed, nothing of the sort. Of course he is a human being. Maybe this new animation of mine could simply be slowed down instead of making another one for when he's tired.

[1212headkick]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

You read an article and still have no idea what you are talking about. Kajan did the mocap because he fights out of Vancouver and he was willing to regularly come to EA Canada. Same with Sim Bhullar and the Pride Kickboxer they used for some of the mocap. Yes, they paid him (I never disputed that) but the reason Cruz or other fighters real life movement arent directly mo capped isnt because "EA cut corners" or because "they wont cough up the dough for his mo cap". You talk alot but you know very little about the behind the scenes of the game. Stop acting like you do.

Again though you havent said why it wasnt mocapped by him. Money makes everything happen. Obviously he wasnt offered the opportunity or wasnt offered enough money to do it and that is cutting corners. You are using strawmen arguments my friend you say i dont know anything all the while never having a reason yourself why if striking was this games centerpieces that extra money wasnt spent to make sure you captured his likeness correctly