1. How did I lose this fight? + 2. Joints subs aren't OP

[johnmangala]

1. This isn't the first time I lost a fight I clearly won.. I won all three rounds imo, I should've even got a few 10-8s but instead he won 2 rounds. Can anyone explain how? I rocked him in multiple rounds and had sub attempts that were shown in the highlights. I notice this tends to happen when the opponent lands a lot of body kicks. Body kicks score too much compared to grappling. I have won rounds where I have been rocked with grappling.. but when they land a lot of body kicks it's null.

2. This video shows that joint subs are still weak- they even escaped my armbar from back sitting which is supposed to be OP. Can someone explain what I did wrong that lead to their escape. I had joint leg locks with their stamina flashing but they still escaped.. Zyaf says there's some technique that makes it harder to escape. But isn't that the point? He says Judo Demon is real good with subs and it's nearly impossible to escape his subs. But according to devs this was how it's supposed to be... subs from dominant positions are supposed to be stronger and stamina difference shouldn't matter- I was Burns and he was Leon... How was he able to escape so easily. I even had stamina advantage. What is wrong with my technique compared to Judo Demon or Zyaf? I'm scared they'll nerf all joint subs because these dudes are complaining about OP armbars.

[Evil97]

You didn't have a stamina advantage for that backsitting armbar and also didn't cover him on the corners much, and you still came close. You would have had the leg lock at the end of the 2nd round. The side saddle armbar is what is the most powerful. No clue on the scoring as I skipped through and couldn't probably tell you anything even by watching the whole thing.

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[johnmangala]

Quote: Originally Posted by Evil97

You didn't have a stamina advantage for that backsitting armbar and also didn't cover him on the corners much, and you still came close. You would have had the leg lock at the end of the 2nd round. The side saddle armbar is what is the most powerful. No clue on the scoring as I skipped through and couldn't probably tell you anything even by watching the whole thing. Sent from my SM-N960U using Operation Sports mobile app

Thanks. Isnt stamina advantage not supposed to matter as much for dominant positions like back sitting and side saddle? I've seen vids of judo submitting people with much less stamina than I had. What's the deal? Is not covering the edges all that I'm doing wrong?

[johnmangala]

Naamari on discord explained it's a skill thing too. So why are people arguing to nerf those joint subs?

[Evil97]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnmangala

Naamari on discord explained it's a skill thing too. So why are people arguing to nerf those joint subs?

Aside from the wonkyness of the side saddle armbar, I think it's mostly due to the plethora of opportunities and options you have to get to back sitting and end the fight via green bar (full stamina vs full stamina). I'm completely fine with the back flat rear naked being extremely deadly as it takes a harder progression to get it.
Overall, the submission wins that I find most appealing are those that come off of a chain of events from the other grappling aspects that lead to a compromised position and found sub. Finding and creating those opportunities is a whole meta in itself. A bit of a nerf to those two armbars and a buff to most of the chokes would really be a sweet spot to get this feeling IMO.

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[johnmangala]

Quote: Originally Posted by Evil97

Aside from the wonkyness of the side saddle armbar, I think it's mostly due to the plethora of opportunities and options you have to get to back sitting and end the fight via green bar (full stamina vs full stamina). I'm completely fine with the back flat rear naked being extremely deadly as it takes a harder progression to get it. Sent from my SM-N960U using Operation Sports mobile app

What is green bar, I didnt get that- full stamina v full stamina?

I dont mind if they nerf those 2 armbars, but they should buff the other joint and choke subs imo. They already nerfed joint subs earlier.

The thing is I already showed you can easily escape back sitting armbar if the attacker isnt as good in the mini game like I was. It's a matter of skill. And people have escaped my side saddle armbar. I mean I'm not the best at subs but I don't suck at it either.

Why nerf those subs if only the top percent are deadly with them.

[RetractedMonkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by johnmangala

What is green bar, I didnt get that- full stamina v full stamina? I dont mind if they nerf those 2 armbars, but they should buff the other joint and choke subs imo. They already nerfed joint subs earlier. The thing is I already showed you can easily escape back sitting armbar if the attacker isnt as good in the mini game like I was. It's a matter of skill. And people have escaped my side saddle armbar. I mean I'm not the best at subs but I don't suck at it either. Why nerf those subs if only the top percent are deadly with them.

Because when the top percent are fighting other top percenters in broadcasted competition in front of the official UFC broadcasting, you don’t want 4 fights ending with side saddle arm bars in the first minute like what happened during ESFL 100.

You don’t have to be especially good with joint subs to get them. You almost got it and you didn’t even follow all the way up the corner (the most crucial aspect of joint subs).

It only takes two actions to get into side saddle and from that point the armbar is undeniable (camp the back side escape transition, wait for them to turn back into side control, initiate the armbar because it will always beat the side control escape no matter when it is executed). Or, use the power modifier to speed that whole process up and get the armbar anyway.

If we are going by powerful positions equating to powerful subs, side saddle is one of the exceptions to the rule. A side saddle armbar is without a doubt the lowest percentage sub in the game. I don’t think one person in the modern era has ever gotten one (maybe ever). Side saddle just is not a good position for submissions in general unless you are large and can crush someone enough to tap. It’s a transitional position to regain control or to move into another position.

From both a balance and realism perspective, this submission is broken.

Back sitting is a little less overpowered, but not by much. It takes three actions to get there and the power modifier can be used as well. This is also a low percentage sub in MMA.

We should definitely buff every choke except the back flat. They are all useless. Joint subs need a slight buff for some positions (like the half guard kimura) and a moderate one for others (like the armbar from guard), but the two broken armbars need to be put down.

I also believe the power modifier for subs should go. You don’t power into any kind of sub except maybe a guillotine. Putting power into a sub normally means you already have them locked up, but the in game power modifier just puts you into the first stage. Trying to rush a submission normally means you’re going to burn energy for no reason and lose your position. The mini game for joint subs in EA MMA replicates this concept near perfectly. The current mini game does not lend itself to power modifiers very well.


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[johnmangala]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey

Because when the top percent are fighting other top percenters in broadcasted competition in front of the official UFC broadcasting, you don’t want 4 fights ending with side saddle arm bars in the first minute like what happened during ESFL 100. You don’t have to be especially good with joint subs to get them. You almost got it and you didn’t even follow all the way up the corner (the most crucial aspect of joint subs). It only takes two actions to get into side saddle and from that point the armbar is undeniable (camp the back side escape transition, wait for them to turn back into side control, initiate the armbar because it will always beat the side control escape no matter when it is executed). Or, use the power modifier to speed that whole process up and get the armbar anyway. If we are going by powerful positions equating to powerful subs, side saddle is one of the exceptions to the rule. A side saddle armbar is without a doubt the lowest percentage sub in the game. I don’t think one person in the modern era has ever gotten one (maybe ever). Side saddle just is not a good position for submissions in general unless you are large and can crush someone enough to tap. It’s a transitional position to regain control or to move into another position. From both a balance and realism perspective, this submission is broken. Back sitting is a little less overpowered, but not by much. It takes three actions to get there and the power modifier can be used as well. This is also a low percentage sub in MMA. We should definitely buff every choke except the back flat. They are all useless. Joint subs need a slight buff for some positions (like the half guard kimura) and a moderate one for others (like the armbar from guard), but the two broken armbars need to be put down. I also believe the power modifier for subs should go. You don’t power into any kind of sub except maybe a guillotine. Putting power into a sub normally means you already have them locked up, but the in game power modifier just puts you into the first stage. Trying to rush a submission normally means you’re going to burn energy for no reason and lose your position. The mini game for joint subs in EA MMA replicates this concept near perfectly. The current mini game does not lend itself to power modifiers very well. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Yeah I didnt know why side saddle was so powerful for subs, I thought there must've been a lot of subs from there irl.. apparently not. So yeah I dont care if they nerf the hell out of the side saddle one. The back sitting armbar should be nerfed too but not by much imo.

On the power subs.. yeah as they work now I dont even see the benefit, it should be replaced with stamina drain during the sub for movement/modifier. When i first heard they were planning on doing this I thought it would be like ea MMA.. active stamina drain during the sub. That added strategy.

They can rework it to be like ea MMA but bit different since we have different mini games. Press the modifier to increase the bar progress speed and/or the bar movement speed at the cost of stamina.