Does COMBO multiplier work in Clinch/Ground?

[drinklime]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Thats an interesting position and counter to what most of the people on the forum think. If anything, I've seen people complain about how much input the Gcers or the team of testers have versus what the community provides. I hear constant complaining from people here about how the devs dont listen to them and you are suggesting that devs primarily listen to testers instead of waiting for feedback? Also lets use the correct language. The changes arent "random". Its not like the dev team is throwing **** at the wall hoping it works. They get feed back from the community, testers and GCers and then brainstorm ways to fix it.

Well isn't that the point of the surveys? To sample more of the customers? But it seems most of the patch changes come from forums instead. That is my point.

As X-skadefryd-X pointed out, EA UFC 2 sold about 1,000,000 copies. Let's generously assume that there are 500 active forum members contributing legitimate & well-reasoned feedback.

500/1,000,000 = 0.0005
0.0005 * 100 = 0.05 %

That equates to one-twentieth of one-percent of EA UFC 2 consumers making decisions that determine the patch changes coming down the pipe. Statistically speaking those people on the forum, however varied their opinions may be, will never represent the true feelings of the actual customer base.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by drinklime

Well isn't that the point of the surveys? To sample more of the customers? But it seems most of the patch changes come from forums instead. That is my point. As X-skadefryd-X pointed out, EA UFC 2 sold about 1,000,000 copies. Let's generously assume that there are 500 active forum members contributing legitimate & well-reasoned feedback. 500/1,000,000 = 0.0005 0.0005 * 100 = 0.05 % That equates to one-twentieth of one-percent of EA UFC 2 consumers making decisions that determine the patch changes coming down the pipe. Statistically speaking those people on the forum, however varied their opinions may be, will never represent the true feelings of the actual customer base.

But neither will the testers or the dev team. Lets say the QA team is 30 people. Do you want those 30 people being the primary source of suggested changes for the game?

Surveys are great for big picture planning like which modes to add to a future game but for specific changes to the thats less helpful. Take me for example, I play primarily offline so most of the spam and cheese issues I dont see because the AI doesnt cheese. So if you send me a survey and ask me "Is the clinch overpowered", my answer will be "From my experience, no". Thats the wrong answer and now I've skewed the survey results to make it seem that the clinch isnt a problem.

The dev team isnt dumb. They dont just add patch something just because someone in the forum or a GCer complains about it. I'll give you an example that happened without giving any specifics:

GCer #1 complained about an aspect of the game and said that it was pretty much broken. GCer #2 thought that was a bit of an exaggeration and doesnt think the aspect was broken. The dev tested that aspect of the game and determined that GCer #1 was right. Then he talked through a potential fix with the dev team and the Gcers.

Finally every sports game use forums and social media to discover potential issues with the game and there is nothing wrong with that as long as you give more attention to the complaints/issues that are well explained and thought through. Thats what the UFC dev team does.

[drinklime]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

But neither will the testers or the dev team. Lets say the QA team is 30 people. Do you want those 30 people being the primary source of suggested changes for the game? Surveys are great for big picture planning like which modes to add to a future game but for specific changes to the thats less helpful. Take me for example, I play primarily offline so most of the spam and cheese issues I dont see because the AI doesnt cheese. So if you send me a survey and ask me "Is the clinch overpowered", my answer will be "From my experience, no". Thats the wrong answer and now I've skewed the survey results to make it seem that the clinch isnt a problem. The dev team isnt dumb. They dont just add patch something just because someone in the forum or a GCer complains about it. I'll give you an example that happened without giving any specifics: GCer #1 complained about an aspect of the game and said that it was pretty much broken. GCer #2 thought that was a bit of an exaggeration and doesnt think the aspect was broken. The dev tested that aspect of the game and determined that GCer #1 was right. Then he talked through a potential fix with the dev team and the Gcers. Finally every sports game use forums and social media to discover potential issues with the game and there is nothing wrong with that as long as you give more attention to the complaints/issues that are well explained and thought through. Thats what the UFC dev team does.

Exactly. That is why publishers should avoid updates after release, and instead focus on a release date that allows them to wrap up these issues before release to the public. The game should not be changing significantly after release, except for things like these new event modes and bugs, etc. Unfortunately since UFC 1 the pattern has been, release as quick as possible, see what gets the most complaints, then patch patch patch. As you have mentioned previously EA UFC 1 didn't even have a sprawl position. Then 4 months after release they change the whole combo system. EA UFC 2 was the same. The beta, as I understand, was not close to a releasable state, and it was up to you 9 gentlemen to do your best to "clean up the mess" with your GameChanges. They did not give you anywhere close to the time you needed to catch everything.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by SUGATA

You missed one important point: To give you the most useful and correct feedback, we need to know HOW to play, but for that we need to KNOW the internal mechanics and rules inside the game... But b/c of tutorial and info lack we can not to do our feedback in _its most helpful form_ for you. Here are some whitespaces/questions: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...&postcount=118 Give us more info => and we will give you more _helpful and correct_ feedback and suggestions. This is the only cause why your EA testers/QA team has and advantage over us users, but it seems they still need our help. We want to help, even b/c we want the game of our dream (which will also increase the game sales - i.e. EA wish).

The difference is those QA guys are under a non-disclosure agreement and the members of this forum arent. So there is only so much that devs can tell you guys.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by drinklime

Exactly. That is why publishers should avoid updates after release, and instead focus on a release date that allows them to wrap up these issues before release to the public. The game should not be changing significantly after release, except for things like these new event modes and bugs, etc. Unfortunately since UFC 1 the pattern has been, release as quick as possible, see what gets the most complaints, then patch patch patch. As you have mentioned previously EA UFC 1 didn't even have a sprawl position. Then 4 months after release they change the whole combo system. EA UFC 2 was the same. The beta, as I understand, was not close to a releasable state, and it was up to you 9 gentlemen to do your best to "clean up the mess" with your GameChanges. They did not give you anywhere close to the time you needed to catch everything.

Thats nice in theory but not in practice. One, most sports games have release dates built into their contracts so they have to release by a certain date. Two, even if this game was released in June, game mechanics like the combo multiplier wouldve still remained in the game. Three, the Gcers only interacted with the game for 6 days so even if we were given two more trips there, we wouldve still missed a ton of issues.

Finally, the game was released in a "releasable state." UFC 2 isnt UFC 1. There are still a ton of things that should be changed about the game but UFC 2 wasnt missing huge features or significant mechanics (like a sprawl) at release. There are a bunch of things people are unhappy with but they wouldve likely been unhappy with them even if the game was released 6 mos later.

[Evil97]

If someone is going for an arm trap, just watch them do it and then hit them. I rarely just mash the buttons. I understand the window is huge and it doesn't require much timing, but that is the reason to really mess with the timing all the more.

[Boiler569]

Personally I feel like Mount is perfect right now (in a balance sense)

If i get someone in mount, I can do some great damage. But if they are good/patient, they can usually escape before they die lol

I like how arm traps work --- I just think they need to NOT drain so much stamina from the guy in top mount. You can have like 75%+ stamina; get arm trapped; and are down to like 10% or less --- a little over the top

arm trap in half guard postured mount seems OP to me. Seems like people are more easily able to 'spam' arm trap attempts in half guard compared to mount. Not sure if this is just my imagination, or if it's a game mechanic...if it is a game mechanic, is it on purpose? To make half guard less powerful?

[Zero101010]

Have the devs ever gave a full explanation as to why they decided to use a combo multiplier?