How to counter takedown into sub?

[Bigg Cee]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dave_S

PlayStation Network is a freaking joke. Fast internet is pointless.

Also the sprawl to the guillotine choke 2 gate. ( R2 + L2 UP) works great for me on Xbox 1. I just had two back to back fights were i got the choke because i was looking for it. I try on ps4 i get it barely even when i know it's coming.

Also striking to me feels way better and for some reason im seeing more flash rocks in ranked matches. Who knows but I have about 500 games on X1 so it's a good sample and 2,000 on ps4.

PS4 ground game at times feels great and other times not responsive. but both systems do have there lag and delays, it's just ps4 feels more like latency then anything else, and i feel it in the striking a lot.

Just my thoughts...

[Boiler569]

Does anyone know if the denial window for 'regular' takedown defense; is the same size as 'submission' takedown defense?

Probably not lol but thought I'd ask.

i.e. perhaps going for a 'regular' takedown denial --- you get 20 frames for a denial window --- but a reversal into submission might only be 15 frames for a window --- it's higher reward, but higher risk (harder to pull off)

Similar to how I (assume) going for a 'regular' Single Leg is easier than a Power Single Leg

Might start trying to work these reversals into my game. But if they're much harder to pull off....especially with lag, where every frame counts...I might shy away lol

[Morgan Monkman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boiler569

Does anyone know if the denial window for 'regular' takedown defense; is the same size as 'submission' takedown defense? Probably not lol but thought I'd ask. i.e. perhaps going for a 'regular' takedown denial --- you get 20 frames for a denial window --- but a reversal into submission might only be 15 frames for a window --- it's higher reward, but higher risk (harder to pull off) Similar to how I (assume) going for a 'regular' Single Leg is easier than a Power Single Leg Might start trying to work these reversals into my game. But if they're much harder to pull off....especially with lag, where every frame counts...I might shy away lol

I started using them this weekend, i got the sub every single time.

Charles Oliveria goes into a Kimura and most other guys Guillotine, if you are already good at stuffing takedowns then the subs will be just as easy.

[Boiler569]

Quote: Originally Posted by Morgan Monkman

I started using them this weekend, i got the sub every single time. Charles Oliveria goes into a Kimura and most other guys Guillotine, if you are already good at stuffing takedowns then the subs will be just as easy.

nice, definitely going to try to re-program my input muscle-memory if possible lol

(although ... unless i'm a very high level BJJ guy ... I'd prefer the stuff to Sprawl than a sub attempt ... but I'm *really* interested in the judo throw counter so gotta check that one out for sure)

[Morgan Monkman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boiler569

nice, definitely going to try to re-program my input muscle-memory if possible lol (although ... unless i'm a very high level BJJ guy ... I'd prefer the stuff to Sprawl than a sub attempt ... but I'm *really* interested in the judo throw counter so gotta check that one out for sure)

Yes id like to know the Judo throw as well.

i have a question, how do you deny the transition where the guy grabs a single leg from a submissive position on the ground, stands up and then takes you down?

The transition hub always appears for me and everything is blanked out?

I never can figure it out, sometimes i deny it, sometimes i get taken down.

[Boiler569]

Quote: Originally Posted by Morgan Monkman

Yes id like to know the Judo throw as well. i have a question, how do you deny the transition where the guy grabs a single leg from a submissive position on the ground, stands up and then takes you down? The transition hub always appears for me and everything is blanked out? I never can figure it out, sometimes i deny it, sometimes i get taken down.

I believe that's a reversal --- but like you said it's not 100% unblockable; I've done it before; but lots of times I'm unable to deny

maybe it has a really short denial window? No idea lol I always just try to time up a takedown denial about the time he stands up and goes for my leg

with regard to Judo Throw Counter I believe it's L2 + left or right on the Right Stick --- which is completely opposite of the 'usual' takedown defense haha so going to take awhile to get used to it, if I try to add it to my game (plus you can only use it when you have that particular moveset)

[Ksearyback]

Quote: Originally Posted by Morgan Monkman

i have a question, how do you deny the transition where the guy grabs a single leg from a submissive position on the ground, stands up and then takes you down? The transition hub always appears for me and everything is blanked out? I never can figure it out, sometimes i deny it, sometimes i get taken down.

Go to page 3 in this thread. Dave helped me with this exact question and now I nail it every time.

It is not a submission reversal, but rather a takedown reversal (you need a fighter with the single leg submission counter). The move itself isn't a counter, I don't believe, it's a wrestling transition.

Either way, the timing window isn't that small, so if you have the right fighter, L2 and down basically as his hub to move from standup to single leg changes. As you can read on page 3 and see in the video Dave posted, there is a slight animation in which the wrestler pinches his knees (this is when he's decided to go for the take down rather than just back off... And this, of course, is when you hit the counter).

[Shogun474]

Quote: Originally Posted by Morgan Monkman

Yes id like to know the Judo throw as well. i have a question, how do you deny the transition where the guy grabs a single leg from a submissive position on the ground, stands up and then takes you down? The transition hub always appears for me and everything is blanked out? I never can figure it out, sometimes i deny it, sometimes i get taken down.

Its just R2 and down bro, don't worry if your controller vibrates you will still break free.


To counter it its R2 and left or right and R2 (as they initiate the TD as you are hopping on one leg) Counter towards the opposite leg he is holding