Let's have a conversation of how the takedown mechanics can be changed for EA UFC 3.

[manliest_Man]

I am making this post, so that we the users of this forum, can have a conversation of how we can come up with a system that we like, that changes the takedown/trips system, to reflect the real-life takedowns, that not always end up blocked or taking down the opponent in the first 1-2 seconds, but also have struggles some times, that even end up across the cage and in the clinch and are not only sucessfull, when timed properly after the opponent is missing strikes.

I'd like to hear people analyse and break down in the comments, the various states of a takedown and how can those be implemented in a very quick mini-game, that declares on wether you will land the takedown or it will end up in the clinch or stuffed or blocked or turned into a submission.

I'd love to see various gifs of various takedowns and potential scenarios of where they can end up.

So hopefully you are down to participate.

P.S. Can someone teach me how to post a gif here? Every time i select the IMG option, for some reason it won't show up.

[manliest_Man]

I'll start of with 1 Of the first ideas that come in mind, is to break down the takedowns in 2 type of takedowns, the normal takedowns based on timing as we know them and this new one i am proposing which is broken down in 2 states.

Those 2 states can be true for both the single and the double leg and perhaps other takedowns

The first state you hold L2 + flick RS torwards the opponent and you clinch his single leg.(kind of like getting up from Side Control Submissive with a takedown attempt in EA UFC 2) From there you keep holding L2 alone and you remain clinched to his single leg, from where you can push the opponent and make him limp away or pull him and make him limp forward or to the sides etc. by moving the Left Stick of movement. (The Takedown clinch system, is based on not letting go of L2 or else you automatically unclinch)

The second state is wether you decide to take him down after you have done a takedown clinch or decide to let go of L2 to unclinch him or turn it into a single collar clinch or perhaps a submission. Here,while holding L2, you can move the Right Stick down, indicating you are transitioning for the takedown or up indicating you are transitioning for a clinch. In this state you can also decide on wether your takedown can be a heavy takedown by holding L1 + RS hold down.

What this system will do is this. You can keep the Hold L2 + Hold RS to have instant takedowns that require good timing, but you can also Hold L2 +FLICK RS to have a takedown clinch mini-game, that is not based on timing a takedown after an opponent's strike, but rather is based on making a skilled takedown by burning the takedown clinch initiator's stamina, whilein this mini-game,he is controling his opponent, pushing him back and forth making him lose his balance, before he transitions the takedown clinch into a full takedown.

Both the normal takedown and the takedown clinch, can be blocked with the same R2 + Down, but the takedown clinch, is faster than a normal takedown attempt, almost like the instant single collar clinch and it can cover more range from where you duck for the takedown. So simple takedowns based on timing after an opponent missing a strike, should get a reduced range nerf, to encourage more skilled/struggled takedowns instead of spamming takedowns in hopes of the opponent miss clicking the takedown denial into something else.

This takedown clinch mini-game is all about grappling advantage. The takedown initiator will have to factor some things.

1 - His Stamina

- The longer he spends in the takedown clinch moving, the more stamina he burns, the harder the takedown gets and the more likely to end up with the fighters moving torwards the cage(like in real-life) With the takedown defender, ending up on the cage with his legs spread out, open to knees(like we see many times in real-life) but if the takedown clinch is stalled the staminas regenerate but it's easier to get unclinched while stalling

2 - How much is he able to shake off the opponent left and right at will, giving him more grappling advantage, to make the takedown very fast with a small denial window and nearly unblockable once he proceeds to stage 2.

3 - Wether his opponent is striking his body/face while he is in the takedown clinch.

If the attacker is pushing the movement stick left and right to gain grappling advantage and the defender is striking him to make him lose his grappling advantage, it should make the takedown possible to stuff.

4 - The easiest way to get takedown grappling advantage is by pushing torwards your opponent making him limp backwards, but while doing that, you are susceptible of being countered by judo throws or guilotine chokes or kimuras

[godway]

If I had any issue with takedowns it be that they're too smooth. I feel like any body-to-body contact in the game should be more of a struggle of momentum, depending on certain situations. If you time everything right, sure, give it a clean takedown. But instead of the goofy overpowered sprawl animations that are way too easy to do, I'd rather see the player going for the takedown get hung up by the takedown victim, and the momentum maybe drive them back towards the cage or whatever, and locked up in a clinch. And maybe you can counter that takedown into one of your own, etc..

There's a lot of room for improvement with takedowns. I don't HATE them or anything, but there's definitely some cool things to implement there to make the fights feel more organic.

[manliest_Man]

Quote: Originally Posted by godway

If I had any issue with takedowns it be that they're too smooth. I feel like any body-to-body contact in the game should be more of a struggle of momentum, depending on certain situations. If you time everything right, sure, give it a clean takedown. But instead of the goofy overpowered sprawl animations that are way too easy to do, I'd rather see the player going for the takedown get hung up by the takedown victim, and the momentum maybe drive them back towards the cage or whatever, and locked up in a clinch. And maybe you can counter that takedown into one of your own, etc.. There's a lot of room for improvement with takedowns. I don't HATE them or anything, but there's definitely some cool things to implement there to make the fights feel more organic.

Check out my comment above you, it's a way i recommend of adding that struggle in a takedown mini-game.

[Generative James]

I posted something similiar to this in the Grappling Moves You Wish Were Included Thread.

Quote: Originally Posted by Generative James

Deepen the takedown game by making the single leg takedown its own grappling position. The single leg entry, from standing or Dominant Double Underhooks, could be denied or reversed. Once the leg is secure, the position has begun and both players get HUDs. The attacker moves the stick to start different takedown types. Wrestlers can have wrestling specific single leg takedowns and BJJ guys BJJ specific, there are plenty of both. The defender can transition to break away or to Double Underhooks Submissive, deny/reverse attacker transitions, and be able to land fairly damaging elbows to avoid stalemates. The completed takedowns would result in mainly Side Control Dominant or Back Side Control Dominant, to reward the extra step of position initiation. Back side control is important.

I like your further ideas about left stick movement, pushing or pulling your opponent, such that a takedown attempt could potentially traverse the entire length of the cage.

There could be two major effects of the the leftstick movement. I think these could apply to all clinch positions as well as the single leg takedown.

1. Momentum. Successfully pushing, pulling, or spinning your opponent should create momentum for a right stick transition(actual takedown, or other) in the same direction.

If both players are pushing into each other then no movement is made or momentum gained, unless maybe one player has a severe stat and/or stamina advantage over his opponent. Same with if both players are pulling away from each other.

If both players are leftstick moving in the same direction, than momentum for both fighters is created. The pushing player can use it for a rightstick transition takedown and the pulling player can use it for judo throws, guillotines, kimura etc..


2. Position relative to the cage. Whether trying to reach or avoid the cage, the end of the movement has positional consequences.

GPD already said he was interested in doing the double leg against the cage. Add single legs and the ability to transition between the two and normal cage clinch positions and then you can push your opponent against the cage and have a variety of options. The cage should be advantageous for takedowns for some fighters because their opponent cannot sprawl. But some fighters are really good at using the cage to stay standing, like Jose Aldo and Anderson Silva. So different fighters would have different motivations to move towards or away from the cage.

So, basically, what you said.