CHANGE INTERRUPTING formula by easy PATCH to enhance Stand up Striking

[SUGATA]

The most players are complaining about the current Stand up Striking in UFC 2.

I wrote several threads about what is broken and how to fix it:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...a-ufc-2-a.html
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...scussions.html
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...scussions.html

But... this possible will be after 1-2 years in EA UFC3. But we want to play now and this is too long to wait.


MKX after a year from this launch, made a reload with patch 2.0
SFV after approx a year made a reload with season 2
These "reloads" boosted community interest to the game and gave the second breath to the game.

This IS possible to make for EA UFC 2 now, this will enhance the Stand up striking game and will increase the community and the challenge in EA UFC 2 cybersport.
_________________________________________

Take a look on this example from EA UFC 2:





What do you see in this current typical EA UFC 2 scene?
1. Bisping (B) bait Johnson (J) to perform a several missed strikes (whiff) by his footwork or sway
2. Then immediately (while B has Counter window opportunity = dmg bonus) made FWD dash (= Boosted strike):
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...mechanics.html
Then 1-2 body strikes landed = CLEAR HITS, so B has:
Counter bonus dmg + CM bonus dmg + 30% Stamina advantage SA (=more powerful strikes) + Straight is 1.5 dmg (in UFC2 is stronger than Jab, when Uppercut has 2.5 dmg) = with this dmg bonuses B's 2nd straight was more powerful than naked base Uppercut from J.
3. Then immediately B continue his COMBO with 3rd strike and......
was easily INTERRUPTED by J's Uppercut (naked base, w/o ANY dmg bonuses at all!)
4. J crushed B's Combo, stunned him and retake an advantage.

The reason of this interrupting: implemented in patch 1.95 " Strike intercept – Strikes landed within the opponents initial wind up phase of a strike will halt the opponent from completing their strike".

What is wrong in this situation? ALL. J's weaker strike interrupted B's stronger strike (stronger by TOTAL damage).

TOTAL DAMAGE of the strike - we already has it in the game; strike's power is a summary from:
its naked base dmg + Counter window bonus dmg + CM bonus dmg + Momentum bonus dmg + fighters' attributes difference + Stamina advantage.

The META of Stand up game = anticipate opponent's action > predict him > bait him to a trap > take a Striking advantage (STA) from him > when i have STA, i have a conditions to start my offense > start attack > hit checking (if clear hit - continue, if missed or blocked - defense).

What is the best way to solve this and enhance Stand up striking?
Is implementing NEW Striking mechanics from core, by bringing hit & block stuns, Striking advantage and Amplitude - all these in details are in linked threads above.

But could we to enhance it NOW? YES! And easily enough. BY the last PATCH which will boost the game dramatically by small price.

Now we could TUNE the interrupted formula, which determines when 1P strike will interrupt 2P strike!

Details:
The rule - 1P strike interrupts 2P strike only on Startup (wind up) phase (lie we have now already) and ONLY WHEN 1P strike has higher TOTAL damage than 2P strike.
Key words: higher total damage.

> then IF 1P strike damage is much higher - 1P stops completely 2P strike
IF 1P strike damage is a bit higher - 1P is weakening/misleading 2P strike.
We already have 2 these situations in the game but in other not right context.

Why i think this is easy to make by patch:
- we have all animations and processes for this
- we have interrupting strike mechanics
- the only thing to do is to change its formula numbers - tune this only for interrupting strikes with higher total damage (not every strike, with base damage).

Effects from this:
What will change if we have this new formula interrupting now?
Take a situation:
1P abuse footwork > provoke 2P for attack > 2P missed > 1P with Counter bonus and (better) Stamina advantage dashes FWD with strike and begin his Combo > with EVERY new clear landed (hit) 1P's strike, 2P need to launch much much stronger strike to stop/interrupt 1P combo, not just basic uppercut... even then after powerful strike (which require more energy) he become exhausted and empty stamina = easy target, 2P will think twice before throwing a strike while getting several clear hits... This will teach him to check his strikes (hit or missed/blocked), to analyze his gained damage bonuses and to plan his next moves, to become more precise. He will stop button mashing _naturally_.... More skill in stand up game.
But if 2P instead of throwing strike, begin to Block/Evade/Parry/Sway he will regain Striking advantage because these action are resetting fully ALL 1P damage bonuses (multipliers) = neutral conditions > then he can to start his attack because he nullify 1P Striking advantage and regain it.
As a result after this SIMPLE PATCH we will get: much smarter, strategic, hit checking, predictable, less random Stand up striking game...
And this will be enough for us while we are waiting for EA UFC 3.


Dear devs, this the last inch will bring version 2.0 Stand ups Striking to EA UFC 2 and will make a revolution/reload in it right now. Please, do it!

[aholbert32]

Good ideas for the next game but there will be no more patches for UFC2.

[InSaNe_AraBB]

Sounds legit.


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[GameplayDevUFC]

Let's ignore the UFC 2 aspect of this and discuss the concept from a pure gameplay balance standpoint as I find it interesting.

Let's assume we go with this idea.

In theory you could be throwing a combo followed by a strike with very large start up frames and very high damage, amplified by whatever multipliers there may be as you described.

Should this strike not be more susceptible to interruption than a more conservative strike that has fewer start up frames and lands less damage?

The risk/reward balance in your proposal seems off to me.

Someone throwing a more conservative last strike in a combo should be safer, not at higher risk, to interception. Wouldn't you agree?

[GameplayDevUFC]

I think the idea works if the balance between strike damage delta and number of frames before contact on the intercepted strike is variable.

So a weaker strike (to some degree) can interrupt a bigger strike if it lands enough frames before the point of contact.

So maybe it's tuned so a jab can never interrupt a head kick,, but an uppercut landing early enough in the start up frames could.

Later, it deflects, later still it reduces damage, and later than that it has no impact on the other strike at all.

[SUGATA]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

Let's ignore the UFC 2 aspect of this and discuss the concept from a pure gameplay balance standpoint as I find it interesting. Let's assume we go with this idea. In theory you could be throwing a combo followed by a strike with very large start up frames and very high damage, amplified by whatever multipliers there may be as you described. Should this strike not be more susceptible to interruption than a more conservative strike that has fewer start up frames and lands less damage? The risk/reward balance in your proposal seems off to me. Someone throwing a more conservative last strike in a combo should be safer, not at higher risk, to interception. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, the high powerful (usually with longer startup) strike at the end of combo, which was setup/prepared by clear hits and others dmg bonuses, must to be less susceptible to _interruption_ (not evading, blocking, parring, but exactly interruption/stopping). Why? because powerful strike harder to stop when it is in its fulness, and it has fulness because it was prepared by prev actions.

Risk of this cumulative strike = If it was evaded successfully and whiffed, it takes much longer Recovery phase than conservative strike, and during all these recovery frames the attacker will be vulnerable to counter attack. If blocked (not evaded) also higher risk = successfully blocking more powerful strike gives large disadvantage to attacker.

To yr last words: Agree, but -and less reward: what is the pros from so large dmg bonuses if you does not get its fullness (instead of deadly killing strike you did a jab)... you used yr multipliers with less risk but also with much less reward. And smart opponent may not give you a 2nd chance...

[GameplayDevUFC]

Quote: Originally Posted by SUGATA

Yes, the high powerful (usually with longer startup) strike at the end of combo, which was setup/prepared by clear hits and others dmg bonuses, must to be less susceptible to _interruption_ (not evading, blocking, parring, but exactly interruption/stopping). Why? because powerful strike harder to stop when it is in its fulness, and it has fulness because it was prepared by prev actions. Risk of this cumulative strike = If it was evaded successfully and whiffed, it takes much longer Recovery phase than conservative strike, and during all these recovery frames the attacker will be vulnerable to counter attack. If blocked (not evaded) also higher risk = successfully blocking more powerful strike gives large disadvantage to attacker. To yr last words: Agree, but -and less reward: what is the pros from so large dmg bonuses if you does not get its fullness (instead of deadly killing strike you did a jab)... you used yr multipliers with less risk but also with much less reward. And smart opponent may not give you a 2nd chance...

The trick would be to use the highly powerful last strikes only when you have achieved some level of hit stun to support it with your previous strikes in the combo.

So strikes A-B-C-Big mega super kick isn't just a go to combo to land big damage. It's highly dangerous unless used at the right time. That right time might mean when your opponent is at low health/stamina, or where the first strike intercepted something else to cause a big hit stun, or some other factors in a hypothetical meta game that doesn't exist yet.

At least that's how I see it.

[SUGATA]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

I think the idea works if the balance between strike damage delta and number of frames before contact on the intercepted strike is variable. So a weaker strike (to some degree) can interrupt a bigger strike if it lands enough frames before the point of contact. So maybe it's tuned so a jab can never interrupt a head kick,, but an uppercut landing early enough in the start up frames could. Later, it deflects, later still it reduces damage, and later than that it has no impact on the other strike at all.

The problem in your sentences is that we currently does not have Hit stuns in the game (landed hit does not take us a frame advantage (Striking advantage) over the opponent, so our next strike could be launches aerlier than the opponent and i will not get hit on my recovery frames after _successful clear landed_ prev strike in the combo:
The example from UFC 1 (the same for UFC 2):


i was Ko'ed for my successful clear Head spinning kick because no hit stuns and his hook was launched just after getting hit and hits me on my recovery (which means was unblockable to me) - strange "reward" for clear had kick.

This thread was primarily as a solution to enhance current _w/o hitstuns_ stand up striking mechanics.
IF we are going to implement Hits stuns as i often hoped this will be much better and for this more details in my thread New striking stand up mechanics. Hitstuns/Striking advantage will require more details to change of course because the core mechanics becomes different totally.