NEW Stand-up FEINT mechanics for EA UFC 3 (concept, ideas, discussions)

**OdiniOn** · 02-18-2017, 07:30 AM

Re: NEW Stand-up FEINT mechanics for EA UFC 3 (concept, ideas, discussions)

The only part I personally think is very neccessary from all of this is feint input buttons. Should be as you said, press strike, then block early to feint.

Till this day it boggles my mind that they chose RB+RT to be the feint input, boggles my effing mind.

**fishingtime** · 02-18-2017, 07:52 AM

Re: NEW Stand-up FEINT mechanics for EA UFC 3 (concept, ideas, discussions)

Originally posted by OdiniOn

The only part I personally think is very neccessary from all of this is feint input buttons. Should be as you said, press strike, then block early to feint.

Till this day it boggles my mind that they chose RB+RT to be the feint input, boggles my effing mind.

That is a strike cancel. We need those too.

LB + LT was what Undisputed used. This is just reversed on the controller.

**OdiniOn** · 02-18-2017, 09:10 AM

Re: NEW Stand-up FEINT mechanics for EA UFC 3 (concept, ideas, discussions)

Originally posted by fishingtime

That is a strike cancel. We need those too.

LB + LT was what Undisputed used. This is just reversed on the controller.

What are you talking about? Undisputed 3 was how SUGATA advises it to be in UFC 3, cancelling strikes were inputted by pressing block right after throwing a strike, I don't think LB+LT was an input at all in Undisputed 3

**fishingtime** · 02-18-2017, 09:21 AM

Re: NEW Stand-up FEINT mechanics for EA UFC 3 (concept, ideas, discussions)

Originally posted by OdiniOn

What are you talking about? Undisputed 3 was how SUGATA advises it to be in UFC 3, cancelling strikes were inputted by pressing block right after throwing a strike, I don't think LB+LT was an input at all in Undisputed 3

Strike cancel. LB + LT + strike was feint in UD3.

**SUGATA** · 02-18-2017, 09:36 AM

Re: NEW Stand-up FEINT mechanics for EA UFC 3 (concept, ideas, discussions)

Originally posted by fishingtime

Strike cancel. LB + LT + strike was feint in UD3.

This is true.

But the problem is:
1) EA UFC 2 has the same input for Feints as UFC Undisputed: R2+R1.
But in Undisputed Feints were the same as in EA UFC 2 - 4 standard animations.
Feints in UFC Undisputed has the same success as in EA UFC 2 - they were not usable very well.

2) UFC Undisputed also has Strike cancel - G-cancel (click block on strike startup).
G-cancel in Undisputed was not done well also - only on the very early startup you could to stop your strike, so it was more returning to Block and stopping yr strike than feint (because of bad telegraphing the move to the opponent, not good for baiting him).

So, feints was not a common and well done tool in UFC Undisputed also, as i think.

This is the cause why i offer to make only ONE way to feint - by ANALOG G-CANCEL, which could cancel the strike early (for cancelling into block) and a bit later (to become a Feint).

But again - there are must to be strikes (like powerful kicks and others) which must to be impossible or hard to cancel or feint (on very early startup) and more feint oriented strikes (basic punches or kicks). Why? because there are must to be an opportunity for punish and penalty for wrong timed strike! If every strike can be easily canceled on any its startup phase - then the game becomes less risk/rewarded and balanced.

**fishingtime** · 02-18-2017, 09:42 AM

Re: NEW Stand-up FEINT mechanics for EA UFC 3 (concept, ideas, discussions)

My concern was more with the wording because that can confuse the devs as to what we are trying to convey.

**OdiniOn** · 02-18-2017, 09:53 AM

Re: NEW Stand-up FEINT mechanics for EA UFC 3 (concept, ideas, discussions)

Okay now we're on the same page. Man i'll be so hyped if block inputs as a strike cancellation in UFC 3.

**fishingtime** · 02-18-2017, 10:03 AM

Re: NEW Stand-up FEINT mechanics for EA UFC 3 (concept, ideas, discussions)

Originally posted by OdiniOn

Okay now we're on the same page. Man i'll be so hyped if block inputs as a strike cancellation in UFC 3.

The strike cancels do look better than the actual feints.

**SUGATA** · 02-19-2017, 04:05 AM

Re: NEW Stand-up FEINT mechanics for EA UFC 3 (concept, ideas, discussions)

Originally posted by fishingtime

The strike cancels do look better than the actual feints.

I want to drow community and devs attention that the changes in input are not the only thing about new Feints.
Boosting followed up true strike (#2) - is the key to make feints usable. And this is realistic also b/c this strike is prepared. This is the cause why now Feints are not well usable out of combo in neutral state to open the opponent - b/c he is fast enough to react on followed not Boosted strike. Now Feints are only usable in combo before the final cumulative strike to open the opponent w/o loosing gained CM dmg bonus.

Also giving us the ability to feint Dashes/steps (#8) is a new level of mind game and tactics.

Bringing up feints for ground posture up strikes (#9) will increase depth of the current brilliant Dynamic grappling mechanics, opening new ways in dominating the opponent and mind game.

**SUGATA** · 03-12-2017, 09:58 AM

Re: NEW Stand-up FEINT mechanics for EA UFC 3 (concept, ideas, discussions)

Possible problem which i heard from devs is a too large of required resources for making recovery (after G-cancel) animation for all strikes.

So, i want to present a solutions and ways.

UFC Undisputed 3 Feints and G-cancel mechanics:

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/D9l9er8tBhc" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

FEINTS:
(holding) R1+R2 and click strike buttons

1. not cost stamina at all
2. no strike modifiers (L1, L2, LS) effect. So we have only 4 type of feints
3. Followed up strike is BOOSTED (has faster startup), w/o matter of the strike type of limb
4. possible to feint with moving (not in place only)
Resume: could be very useful for feinting because of boosting.

G-CANCEL:
(click) Block JUST AFTER (first max 5 frames = 5/60 sec) strike input

1. not cost stamina at all
2. possible to G-cancel every strike even modified by L2, L1, LS
3. NO boosting for followed strike
4. not possible to G-cancel with moving
Resume: can not be very useful for feinting, only purpose is C-cancel not wanted strike but requires too early input for this, so not very useful.

EA UFC 2:

NO G-CANCEL at all.

FEINTS:
(holding) R1+R2 and click strike buttons

1. cost stamina
2. no strike modifiers (L1, LS) effect, only L2. So we have only 8 type of feints
3. Followed up strike is _NOT_ BOOSTED (has faster startup)
4. NOT possible to feint with moving (not in place only)
Resume: feints are totally useless!

How to solve it in EA UFC 3:
There are 2 ways: 1 - more fundamental, much more resources; 2 - easy, less resources.

1 way - ANALOG G-CANCEL as FEINT INPUT (ANALOG G-CANCEL):
Create ANALOG G-canceling - which stops strike on several its startup stages and recover it back.

Check numbers in 1st thread post for more details:
1) Analog G-cancel as a Feint for EVERY strike.
4)-5) With analog G-cancel we could to create different animations for feints, with more telegraphing baiting.

2 way - current FEINT but with another parametres + G-cancel as command input buffer clearing.

COMMAND BUFFER CLEARING by Block (G):
when i press a 2 strikes in a row, 2nd strikes is performing after 1st strike ends, because it is remembered in buffer. EA UFC 2 buffer memory size = 2 moves.
Often i see that i need to block not striking before my strike started but can not to cancel it.
Give us the ability to click G (Block) before strike startup (or on its initial frames) to stop it and regain Block.

FEINTS changes:
Click Block (R1 or R2) + face buttons or TD - the same input (but for TD as i wrote in my "NEW Stand up Footwork mechanics" input on RS w/o L2, check this thread).
1. Feints costs max 1/3 - check 6) in 1st thread post
2. No L1, RS modifiers effects or no L1 only modifier effect on with strikes can be cancelled as a feint. More types of Feints.
3. Followed up strike is BOOSTED (has faster startup), BUT... only if this strike is OPPOSITE side strike (needs momentum for boosting)! - check 2).
4. Give us ability to make Strikes, Sways, Feints WHILE KEEP MOVING - check my "New stand up Footwork" thread.
5. Check 3) - Faint MUST NOT cancel CW, even more, one (not more) feint must to restart CW allowing to start true strike during 1-2 sec after one feint.
6. Check 7) - ONLY 1-2 FEINTS restarts CM window bonus and keep it, 2nd/3rd feints cancels CM and the followed true strike will be w/o dmg bonus.
7. Check 9) - Give us the ability to make Strikes FEINTS in Clinch or at least in GROUND.

RESUME: This 2nd way allow devs to revamp totally Feints mechanics w/o much resources and animation work.

NEW Stand-up FEINT mechanics for EA UFC 3 (concept, ideas, discussions)

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NEW Stand-up FEINT mechanics for EA UFC 3 (concept, ideas, discussions)

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