Von Flue Choke Submission Switch Idea

[Generative James]

So, I believe, that's now three Von Flue chokes in UFC history. Two from Side Control and now one from 1/2 guard! It should definitely be in the game but it's a weird submission because it's a counter to a Guillotine Choke. I think everyone who fell to this choke would have been fine if they just let go of the Guillotine. So here's my idea on how to incorporate it into EA UFC 3...

For the (few) fighters that should have the move available, it is not a normal submission that you begin with a normal transition but only available when someone is attacking you with a Guillotine Choke, during the mini game. It should be more like a Submission Switch, except instead of the attacker switching submissions (RNC to Armbar), it's the defender that hits the Switch Gate and changes to the attacker. It could be a 2 gate switch. The defender hits the 1st Von Flue Switch Gate but is still in the Guillotine at this point; stamina and stats and whatnot could determine how quickly both the next Guillotine Advance Gate and the 2nd Von Flue Switch Gate appear in the mini game. If the attacker hits his Guillotine Advance Gate first, then the Von Flue is lost and the Guillotine continues. If the defender hits the 2nd Von Flue Switch Gate first, the the mini game suddenly switches colors and the defender is now the attacker and the rest of the Von Flue plays out for however many gates. This should be fairly subtle because this submission catches people unaware... they don't even realize they are really in danger until it is too late. So if someone didn't think or know to look for the Von Flue Switch Gates while applying their Guillotine, they could end up going to sleep without even noticing they aren't the attacker anymore.

The 2 Switch Gates to activate the Von Flue are necessary to give someone who does know to look out for it a chance to defend it or bail on the Guillotine if they know they are at a stamina/stat disadvantage. Similar to now, the original Guillotine attacker could hit the 1st Von Flue Switch Gate before the defender is able to and block the Von Flue initiation. But once the 1st Switch Gate is hit by the defender, the attacker must advance their Guillotine first to remain the attacker or bail on the Guillotine altogether if they don't want the mini game to switch sides.

For instance, in a 5 stage Guillotine attack against a fighter with Von Flue capabilities, the 1st Von Flue Switch Gate could appear during the 2nd stage of the Guillotine. If the defender successfully hits it before the attacker, they then have an opportunity to actually apply the Von Flue (all the while still trying to escape the Guillotine) if they can then hit the 2nd Switch Gate before the attacker advances or bails on their Guillotine. But if the Guillotine attacker hits the 1st Von Flue Switch Gate before the defender does then he blocks it and can then try to advance his choke to the next stage worry free.

I'm also sure there are more examples of Submissions countering other Submissions in real life that could be utilized with this mechanic. Hopefully, our more grappling experienced posters will have some ideas on that...

What do you think?

[JustBlazeM8]

I think there should be more benefit to the attacker of the initial choke hitting the green gate also. For instance, if they hit it before the defender, they can miss a stage of the guillotine changing it from a 5 gate to say a 4 or 3 gate. However, the green gate should come AFTER the blue gate.

[zeric]

Way more than 3 in the ufc. Osp has 2 by himself. Jasom von flue had the first on in like 05 and ive seen more than 1 since than

Edit: tried looking for other examples and i cant find any lol. Maybe they werent ufc fights but i know ive seen it done recently(not osp) to finish a fight

[Haz____]

Sage got tapped with a Von Preux choke.

An interesting thing about that choke, that you see people say it alot, that "If you just let go of the guillotine, youd be fine" But the catch is, that sometimes, because of the bulky MMA gloves, your hand actually gets stuck and you can't pull it out.

[WarMMA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Haz____

Sage got tapped with a Von Preux choke. An interesting thing about that choke, that you see people say it alot, that "If you just let go of the guillotine, youd be fine" But the catch is, that sometimes, because of the bulky MMA gloves, your hand actually gets stuck and you can't pull it out.

Yup this is true. In grappling this has happened to me a few times without gloves. I get caught with my arm there and then I try to move it but because the hold is so tight, I can't get it out. Some guys have such a tight squeeze that your hand may get stuck regardless.

[zeric]

Quote: Originally Posted by Haz____

Sage got tapped with a Von Preux choke. An interesting thing about that choke, that you see people say it alot, that "If you just let go of the guillotine, youd be fine" But the catch is, that sometimes, because of the bulky MMA gloves, your hand actually gets stuck and you can't pull it out.

Assuming you are talking about barbarena fight. I thought that was an arm triangle
Edit: just rewatched it.. And wow it was just a sad sad tap. And people were saying chael took a dive in the wanderlei fight LOL

[Bigg Cee]

Would be cool if they can have a UT card for OSP and name it the same thing he calls it.

[Generative James]

This mechanic could also work for the extensive leg lock game I'm hoping will be added to UFC 3. Then fighters could play footsies! I don't know the particulars of the different holds but I know I've seen one fighter dive for an ankle lock or something and then the other fighter responds by going for one of his own... and sometimes finishing it faster than the one who started first.

Any other examples of counter subs to other subs in real life?

Quote: Originally Posted by zeric

Assuming you are talking about barbarena fight. I thought that was an arm triangle Edit: just rewatched it.. And wow it was just a sad sad tap. And people were saying chael took a dive in the wanderlei fight LOL

I also remembered as more of an arm triangle but I haven't rewatched it. Was it a Von St. Preux?

Quote: Originally Posted by Haz____

An interesting thing about that choke, that you see people say it alot, that "If you just let go of the guillotine, youd be fine" But the catch is, that sometimes, because of the bulky MMA gloves, your hand actually gets stuck and you can't pull it out.

This makes me want it in the game even more!