Any BJJ Practitioners here?

[Ksearyback]

Agree with Chia.

Input from non-grapplers who understand the sport, and play this game are a huge addition.

Balancing input from grapplers, strikers, developers, hard core gamers, and casual players provide a well-rounded approach that will hopefully result in something that is realistic, technical, yet fun for anyone willing to learn.

(This thread did start out asking for critical analysis of Grappling by grapplers, hence the long and detailed account on what could be different. Doesn't mean that would be best, but I wrote a lot just to help those interested in the original inquiry.)

I'll say it again, I actually really like the Grappling. I like the game, and think this was a huge improvement from previous iterations.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ksearyback

Yeah, sorry, that was poorly worded on my part. What I meant was that was a subtle and intuitive detail that WAS included. My point was that it was a good and thoughtful detail (that you can't punch AND deny with a posture breaking grip). Also, there could be more of this in the game rather than stats+stamina+timing (whatever the calculus is). But for an improvement, or getting more realistic game, it is just my opinion that there could be all sorts of little things like this (physics and true mechanics based, nearly rules-based situational things) built into the grappling mechanic. To contrast: think of a game where you see a guard player who watches for positional control, hand placement etc., the signals of which would provide various responses from the bottom player. Certain moves could be forced (similar to the current system) but other options would be available when the most appropriate reaction is chosen with the right timing. This is super hard to articulate and I'm tired. I hope that makes sense. I actually really like the improvement on the ground you did for this game. Was just trying to help with the response as I knew that most on here other than Chia were either just fight fans or novice grapplers.

I'll also add, if you have any ideas of things similar to the posture up while opponent is striking thing that would be easy to add and don't necessarily require new animations, I'm totally open to adding them.

I want to add as many of those realistic nuances as possible.

Same goes for momentum scenarios.

The core systems aren't getting an overhaul, but authentic little breaks from the core system like those mentioned above add depth and realism and the more (as long as they are balanced accordingly) the better.

[Haz____]

I have experience with BJJ and CACC, but I don't think super technical knowledge is really gonna bring a whole lot to the table honestly.

Grappling in real life is WAY to technical, and nuanced to be accurately turned into a video game IMO.

Even just racking my brain on how to do a Submission system without a mini game, just seems like an impossible feat.



All I really want is for EA to give us more transitions, positions, and submissions, and i'll be happy.


*Edit* Oh, and "Grapple Advantage" needs some serious tuning. That's the 1 thing that really turns me off about the grappling system. It feels like an incredibly "Video game-y" mechanic, and doesn't reflect or feel anything like real life grappling. I can see the idea behind it, but honestly, it's implementation feels very wrong. That's the 1 area where real technical grappling knowledge could make a pretty big impact IMO.

[Ksearyback]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

I'll also add, if you have any ideas of things similar to the posture up while opponent is striking thing that would be easy to add and don't necessarily require new animations, I'm totally open to adding them. I want to add as many of those realistic nuances as possible. Same goes for momentum scenarios. The core systems aren't getting an overhaul, but authentic little breaks from the core system like those mentioned above add depth and realism and the more (as long as they are balanced accordingly) the better.

Will have to think about this in the context of keeping it simple, and not re-inventing the wheel. I'll get back with some ideas... I hope

[Ksearyback]

Quote: Originally Posted by Haz____

I have experience with BJJ and CACC, but I don't think super technical knowledge is really gonna bring a whole lot to the table honestly. Grappling in real life is WAY to technical, and nuanced to be accurately turned into a video game IMO. Even just racking my brain on how to do a Submission system without a mini game, just seems like an impossible feat. All I really want is for EA to give us more transitions, positions, and submissions, and i'll be happy. *Edit* Oh, and "Grapple Advantage" needs some serious tuning. That's the 1 thing that really turns me off about the grappling system. It feels like an incredibly "Video game-y" mechanic, and doesn't reflect or feel anything like real life grappling. I can see the idea behind it, but honestly, it's implementation feels very wrong. That's the 1 area where real technical grappling knowledge could make a pretty big impact IMO.

I don't have an answer to the question about avoiding the mini game. I'm also one of those who hasn't ever complained about it.

But the kind of answer that question, I'd prefer a system that had more positions and transitions. I'd have a set of micro-transitions which get the player attacking a submission in better position. So there would still be a mini game at the end, but it would be a quick one (2 gates? I don't know) based on the idea that you really made a lot of mistakes to get yourself into a position to get submitted. (I.e., you don't get to pass guard and just apply a Kimura. Instead, there may be another situation in which you have to isolate the far arm, and then another to step over... if you get this far you can finally attack as you've controlled the arm and the head/shoulders already.)

I also dislike the grapple advantage, but think there is some usefulness if tweaked. I don't have an answer to this one either, and would need to think about it. However, I don't like some of the parts on the arbitrary nature where you can game certain aspects that wouldn't really impact Grappling

[Haz____]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ksearyback

I don't have an answer to the question about avoiding the mini game. I'm also one of those who hasn't ever complained about it. But the kind of answer that question, I'd prefer a system that had more positions and transitions. I'd have a set of micro-transitions which get the player attacking a submission in better position. So there would still be a mini game at the end, but it would be a quick one (2 gates? I don't know) based on the idea that you really made a lot of mistakes to get yourself into a position to get submitted. (I.e., you don't get to pass guard and just apply a Kimura. Instead, there may be another situation in which you have to isolate the far arm, and then another to step over... if you get this far you can finally attack as you've controlled the arm and the head/shoulders already.) I also dislike the grapple advantage, but think there is some usefulness if tweaked. I don't have an answer to this one either, and would need to think about it. However, I don't like some of the parts on the arbitrary nature where you can game certain aspects that wouldn't really impact Grappling

That is a friggin sweet idea.

[chia]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ksearyback

Will have to think about this in the context of keeping it simple, and not re-inventing the wheel. I'll get back with some ideas... I hope

Stamina overhaul 😁

[Pappy Knuckles]

I dig that idea too Kseary. I've never had a issue with the sub mini game, that's fine with me for the most part. I really think the grapple advantage is my biggest issue with how the ground works. Same deal with the clinch, but that's another conversation.

I asked for technical input simply in the hopes of getting a dialogue started and possibly getting some new ideas from guys in the BJJ world.

When I fight a guy who's implementing sound strategy on the feet it's easy to see. I get visual feedback immediately. It's not really something you can see on the ground, though. It's more about knowing how to use the system in place. We don't have ways to isolate limbs on our own or manually do things. Maybe it's too ambitious for me to even think something like that would be possible in the game, but that's where my head was when creating this thread.

With all that being said, we seem to have a consensus that the GA needs to be tweaked. Hopefully we get that much if nothing else.

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