Cage Takedown should be more common

[The Relaxed Guy]

I love the new addition of takedowns against the cage. The ensuing positional struggle - where the defender can attack with submissions/get an underhook and the attacker can complete the TD/pummel - is incredibly awesome. Kind of spices up the rather vanilla wrestling system previous MMA games have had.

Problem is it's very difficult to get to that position and as a result you rarely end up there. There's probably a whole bunch of people who haven't had it happen once. The reason for this is because the "against the cage" takedown position only happens when the opponent defends the takedown at a specific time late in the takedown attempt. If the defender immediately defends the takedown, the cage doesn't come into play. If the defender doesn't defend at all, the cage doesn't come into play.

In essense, the person shooting the takedown has no control over wether they drive their opponent against the cage to finish the takedown. It's entirely up to the defender to press RT/R2 + down towards the end of the yellow circle filling. As an offensive wrestler, I WANT the against the cage position.

So my suggestion is to increase the rate of 'against the cage' TDs and give the attacker more control over when it happens, as opposed to being entirely reliant on the defender. This way there are more ways to enter the cage TD position that was so beautifully designed, yet rarely appreciated because of how hard it is to get there. Possible ways to achieve this are:

-Make it so that in addition to late defended takedowns, ALL undefended takedowns end up against the cage.

-Drastically decrease the window for the "shrug off" TD defense -- I get and even support the idea that the shrug off TD defense should be possible even with your back to the fence, but the window to do so should be very quick. Otherwise, it should end up against the cage.

-And lastly, I know this is unlikely to happen, but double leg takedowns should be an option in dominant clinch positions against the cage. So instead of just having the options of "break", "body lock high" and "Mt Clinch", there's also a "double leg" option, which puts the player directly into the already existent cage TD position. Not only would this increase the frequency of the "cage TD" position, but it would open up the possibility for some extremely awesome wrestling sequences.

[WarMMA]

Yup the cage td positions definitely need to be more common. In fact I think once your back is that close to the cage, the td should still end up against the cage no matter when you defend...it just makes sense. And yh they also need to allow you to go to these positions from clinch too.

[Nugget7211]

Quote: Originally Posted by WarMMA

Yup the cage td positions definitely need to be more common. In fact I think once your back is that close to the cage, the td should still end up against the cage no matter when you defend...it just makes sense. And yh they also need to allow you to go to these positions from clinch too.

I disagree with this, it shouldn't be always. If I was quick enough that it would have just been shucked off in open space,it should be shucked off near the cage. Like, Maia never pushed Woodley against the fence in their (god awful) fight. You should 100% never sprawl against the cage though.

[WarMMA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nugget7211

I disagree with this, it shouldn't be always. If I was quick enough that it would have just been shucked off in open space,it should be shucked off near the cage. Like, Maia never pushed Woodley against the fence in their (god awful) fight. You should 100% never sprawl against the cage though.

I guess I exaggerated a bit, but I agree. A quick shrug off would be fine for early denials, but late denials should end up there and missed denials should end up there. That way it will be more common like it is irl. And yh the full sprawl definitely shouldn't be happening that close to the cage.

[The Relaxed Guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nugget7211

I disagree with this, it shouldn't be always. If I was quick enough that it would have just been shucked off in open space,it should be shucked off near the cage. Like, Maia never pushed Woodley against the fence in their (god awful) fight. You should 100% never sprawl against the cage though.

Agreed, I mentioned that in my post. You should be able to shuck off from anywhere - middle of the cage or back to the fence. But near the cage, the input window to shuck someone off should be very brief, and anything after that should result in the cage position.

And this really benefits both sides IMO, it gives the attacker a satisfying position, it gives the defender a second chance. And it allows this awesome new element to the grappling system to occur a bit more frequently in gameplay.

Not to mention, it's realistic.

Having your back against the cage does help defend takedowns in real life, Ben Askren talks about how fighters use it as a 3rd post. That's why Woodley stayed near the cage a lot against Maia.

[SMOKEZERO]

It would be cool to get to the same position in reverse with the clinch against the cage. I still don't know why clinch against the cage goes directly to thai. Default needs to be over under with grappling advantage. Then have a down transition to get in on the hip. The strikes interrupting transitions in the clinch needs to be fixed too. Thought we figured that one out in UFC 2


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Phillyboi207]

Yeah the only time it shouldnt happen is auto denials and super early ones

[SMOKEZERO]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Relaxed Guy

Agreed, I mentioned that in my post. You should be able to shuck off from anywhere - middle of the cage or back to the fence. But near the cage, the input window to shuck someone off should be very brief, and anything after that should result in the cage position. And this really benefits both sides IMO, it gives the attacker a satisfying position, it gives the defender a second chance. And it allows this awesome new element to the grappling system to occur a bit more frequently in gameplay. Not to mention, it's realistic. Having your back against the cage does help defend takedowns in real life, Ben Askren talks about how fighters use it as a 3rd post. That's why Woodley stayed near the cage a lot against Maia.

Having your back against the cage does help defend takedowns once a fighter has dropped down for that single. Works great against a level change single. It's a disadvantage if that fighter clasps the double, and even bigger disadvantage chest to chest. You can head wrestle with your back to the cage, but your power (hips) aren't in play being pinned against it. Adding in circle out escapes from clinch against the cage would be awesome!


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports