The Stand-Up Animations are there, but Pocket Range Lunging makes it look weird.

[manliest_Man]

The New Animations are amazing, but what's holding them back from shining and playing out properly, is not just the noob/bad players that get into playing it, not knowing what to do, it's also the fact that pocket range, stepping in strikes or lunging strikes, make the animations feel off and unrealistic due to that invisible force-field, that makes fighters look like they are walking on treadmills or ice skating(They are not exactly ice-skating, but they do feel like they are trying to move forward and duck forward etc., but instead remain still when it comes to their octagon location).

It's awesome that we have different striking animations for standing still, moving away or towards the opponent. It's what we asked for and the devs delivered, but almost everyone is used to moving towards their opponent when striking and these are some bad examples of what's making it look bad when both people are in the pocket range:

1. Fighter A standing Still, Fighter B In Range to Strike normally, instead of just throwing a normal standing-still strike, he is lunging/walking forward and throwing it.
   
   What should happen in that scenario is 2 things. Either Fighter B's forward lunge is automatically disabled and a normal strike is thrown Or if Fighter B is a highly skilled fighter, he should do an automatic push/shove/grab/range finding hand extension animation to his opponent to set up his strike. :
   
   
   
   Look how Silva Interacts with Sonnen on this video, semi-clinching when in the pocket range to set up strikes, instead of having a force field holding them back or some Karate Ruleset where you are not allowed to touch your opponent unless you want to tag them. (kind of a bad video example, since he is holding the shorts to set up his strike, but you get the point i am trying to make)
   
   The Fighters Need to interact in that pocket range by touching one another, not simply standing there like there is a forbidden rule that doesn't allow people to interact with one another unless they are striking or unless they initate a single collar clinch... This is not an Arcadey Fighting Game where Fighters are only throwing specific animations of strikes. There should be a physics system in place for mechanics like this.
   
   
   
2. Fighter A is moving Forward, Fighter B is moving forward, since they are in that pocket range, both of their lunging strikes should be canceled and have some normal, standing still strikes come off.
   
   If Fighter A has more range the Fighter B, then Fighter A's lunging strikes should be disabled, while Fighter B's strikes should have that lunge allowed. (Mike Tyson's boxxing style, constantly lunging due to his short range)
   
   
3. Fighter A is moving away from Fighter B at 180° or between 90° -180° or 180°-270° , If Fighter B wants to attack Fighter A, that's when moving forward strike animations should play out.

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To Sum It UP: If Fighter B wants to attack Fighter A, if Fighter B is in range to throw a normal standing still type of strike, the game should have that play out. If Fighter B wants to attack Fighter A, but Fighter B is not in range, that's when the moving forward strike animations should kick in.

In my Opinion, those moving forward strikes should be to close off the distance for the first 2-3 strikes or to chase down someone who is constantly running away from you.

Now if they can manage to add some animations, that have the fighters interact with one another in the pocket range instead of having an invisible force field hold them back, then the moving forward strikes should be allowed at all ranges and when someone makes a mistake and overextends in the pocket, that should make them look goofy/more vunerable or if they are a highly skilled fighter, it should allow them to automatically distance themselves by pushing their opponent or doing an automatic step back strike.

[Solid_Altair]

The problem with forbidding an advancing attack when you're already close is that the opponent might retreart while you're throwing it, then you whiff when the advancing version you wanted would actually have catched the guy. Something roughly like this happened in UFC 2 all the time. And to a smaller degree, I think it happened in FNC, too.

So, the sliding, if there is any, is a small price to pay, imo, for having the marvel of proper range tracking.

BTW, do you have a wealth of sliding gifs to show us?

[manliest_Man]

Quote: Originally Posted by Solid_Altair

The problem with forbidding an advancing attack when you're already close is that the opponent might retreart while you're throwing it, then you whiff when the advancing version you wanted would actually have catched the guy. Something roughly like this happened in UFC 2 all the time. And to a smaller degree, I think it happened in FNC, too. So, the sliding, if there is any, is a small price to pay, imo, for having the marvel of proper range tracking. BTW, do you have a wealth of sliding gifs to show us?

Trust me, i understand the issues with chasing down opponents with all of those silly whiffing strikes of EA UFC 2, i was one of the people constantly whining about them from the start.

Sadly no, my internet connection sucks and i don't have enough time to make gifs and upload them.

Here is an example from the latest Jones vs Silva fight:



Those moving forward hooks, is as if Jones is trying too hard to move forward and throw them. It looks as if he is about to close the distance, but instead he stays in place.

Also those ducking forward animations that play after the hooks, look extremely weird as well, especially the whole head movement that is constantly used by everyone, no matter what fighter they are using:



It feels as if the only animations we see is people moving forward and throwing those janky/over-extended tryhard strikes, but the fighter is not actually moving at the rate you'd expect, for the most part they remain on the same position and that feels really off. The effort put, to move forward, doesn't match the actual distance traveled.


I'll say this, i will have to get my hands on the game again, to see if i can actually be effective by throwing strikes while not moving forward, but from my experience with the beta, i remember most exchanges looking like that. Both People throwing Forward Moving Strikes all the time.

[Solid_Altair]

Throwing stationary strikes effectively certainly requires some getting used to. and when you git gud at it, it really pays off, because they're faster and concede less vulnerability.

And could you be more specific with the timeframe in the video where the weird hooks happen. I' wonrdering if you're actually meaning the sideways strikes.

[manliest_Man]

Quote: Originally Posted by Solid_Altair

Throwing stationary strikes effectively certainly requires some getting used to. and when you git gud at it, it really pays off, because they're faster and concede less vulnerability. And could you be more specific with the timeframe in the video where the weird hooks happen. I' wonrdering if you're actually meaning the sideways strikes.

The links i gave start from a specific time? At least on my desktop PC that i am viewing this from. Either way it's somewhere at 10:30-11:00

[AeroZeppelin27]

Quote: Originally Posted by Solid_Altair

Throwing stationary strikes effectively certainly requires some getting used to. and when you git gud at it, it really pays off, because they're faster and concede less vulnerability.

Videos of fights where two people do this look great from my experience.
It took most of the 8 days with the beta to get the hang of it, but I found a lot of my issues with movement (atleast, my own) was alleviated when I got the hang of when to use specific directional strikes as opposed to constantly holding LS as you would in UFC 2.

I was messing people up if they threw advancing strikes in the pocket, it felt good.

[Acebaldwin]

Isn't it you as a player that is in the wrong there anyway if you keep moving forward while in the pocket? Isn't it more of a input error from the player basically? When you enter the pocket and your opponent basically confirms he'll stay in, you should either retreat or stand your ground.

If you move forward and have those moving forward strikes animations, it's good only if your opponent decides to retreat as Solid says, other than that I would think the one who stands his ground and throw from a stationnary stance has the frame advantage of having his strikes be heavier and faster as oppose to the one who would move forward and strike while in the pocket. I don't agree of removing them. Nor should you have automatic lunges, if you want to whiff a jab or 2 or go and whiff a 1-2 as set up for landing a headkick for exemple, you should be able to do so.

I'm all for having total control of your players movement manually. No automatism.

[Solid_Altair]

Quote: Originally Posted by manliest_Man

The links i gave start from a specific time? At least on my desktop PC that i am viewing this from. Either way it's somewhere at 10:30-11:00

Oh, sorry! Duh me.

Even so, I think those were a good fit. I didn't notice any actual sliding. I reckon the same animation could be applied to cover a longer distance, but to me that is more than satisfactory. It's better than I could've hoped for.