So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Quote: Originally Posted by Abstrakt fists

This is actually what I was thinking. 10 years ago full mount was game over but these days people rarely even go for it because it is easily defended. Modern MMA the place to be is side control, it is easier to maintain and gives good striking and submission options and gives little leverage to the guy on bottom. Full mount is used more for stalling than anything else.

We also need cage positions badly. This is what Khabib does a lot too along with most wrestlers, you just look at Stipe vs Ngnnaou as well. But generally until a sub is sunk in, top position has mostly been used to control the fight, not finish it. And when fights do end from GnP outside of a knock down, it's from TONS of GnP...this is one of those things that EA MMA did almost perfectly. You would wear out the opponent and it would be easier to get the sub, which is how ground grappling & GnP has worked lately irl. Most wrestlers aren't finishing via GnP, they are getting UDs and Sub wins.

[Phillyboi207]

In real finishes dont happen from mount because people give up their back

I do wish we could hip bump first for GA and get a speed boosted shrimp to half guard

[Serengeti1]

Quote: Originally Posted by MadChendez

Actually yes we do combat jujitsu sparring with open palm strikes. It happens more often than I think you realise. With that said what tends to happen more often is the person on the bottom rolls to their back after taking a series of shots in mount and thus give up their neck for the finish hence the finish not technically being from full mount. Moreover the UFC isn't the only MMA organization around. Watch regional shows and some of the smaller organizations such as ONE FC, Bellator, WFA, IPL etc. And you will see a lot more mount finishes. So to your sarcastic response, yes this does happen irl in the modern era. And yes i do have real life experience. I challenge you to let someone mount you and land strikes while you try to get out...It's not easy nor should it be in the game. Finally look at the scoring system in jits. Each position is scored based on the ability to cause damage via strikes even though strikes aren't allowed in comp. Mount is the second highest scoring position other than back mount. Having mount as a strong position is very justified whether you agree or not.

It wasn't really a sarcastic response. I was just making a point. I didn't question whether you have real life experience? I and many others do too.

wtf is a Bellator?

Srsly tho regional shows don't count for much lol. We're playing as the highest level MMA fighters in the world. Not guys at your BJJ gym or at regional shows.

What I will say is guys rolling to their back and getting finished by a rear naked is pretty common.

Top mount should obviously be a dominant position. I just don't like getting KO'd stiff in like 5 punches.

[MadChendez]

Quote: Originally Posted by Serengeti95

It wasn't really a sarcastic response. I was just making a point. I didn't question whether you have real life experience? I and many others do too. wtf is a Bellator? Srsly tho regional shows don't count for much lol. We're playing as the highest level MMA fighters in the world. Not guys at your BJJ gym or at regional shows. What I will say is guys rolling to their back and getting finished by a rear naked is pretty common. Top mount should obviously be a dominant position. I just don't like getting KO'd stiff in like 5 punches.

I think you are way off on this one.

But don't take my word for it. The below article is from Henry Akins March 17:
https://www.bjjee.com/articles/why-t...-for-fighting/

But I'm sure it's just "guys from my gym" that think mount is a strong position.

[Serengeti1]

Quote: Originally Posted by MadChendez

I think you are way off on this one. But don't take my word for it. The below article is from Henry Akins March 17: https://www.bjjee.com/articles/why-t...-for-fighting/ But I'm sure it's just "guys from my gym" that think mount is a strong position.

This article talks about submissions from mount. I'm only talking about the rate of striking finishes from top mount. Which is much, much higher in game than irl. It's just too easy. If the system and sequences were better and you couldn't KO a guy stiff in 5 punches I'd be much more okay with it. I mean who really ever goes for a submission from top mount in this game? It's rare.

Also, who gets KO'd unconscious by a guy in top mount irl?

[Serengeti1]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetractedMonkey

As for the topic question: no. I know that’s funny coming from me considering I made a topic just like this, but mount over all is not OP. What really happened was the defensive options were nerfed. Half guard transition only works now when the defender has good GA, stamina, and the opponent has lower stamina. I don’t like this change. However, I like that back mount has now been given some utility. Rolling over is your best defensive option now. The half guard roll from there is a fast transition. But, I like to stall and wait for punches so I can shake them off the back. Back mount needs a lot of work still (especially because people can stall from there and reset the standup timer) and I like that it was buffed, but not at the expense of the half guard transition. As another note, arm traps are almost entirely useless in mount. They have to be wailing on you over and over with the same side arm for the risk-reward to swing in your favor. If you miss an arm trap, there is a good possibility you will be KOed. Currently, I’m okay with this.

I'll take your word for it as you've been playing ranked for longer than me. I'm going to work on those positions now.

The arm trap thing is definitely something to look out for. I'm also pretty fine with it for now but maybe a slight buff wouldn't hurt at some point if they're completely useless a bit later on into the game's cycle.

[MadChendez]

Quote: Originally Posted by Serengeti95

This article talks about submissions from mount. I'm only talking about the rate of striking finishes from top mount. Which is much, much higher in game than irl. It's just too easy. If the system and sequences were better and you couldn't KO a guy stiff in 5 punches I'd be much more okay with it. I mean who really ever goes for a submission from top mount in this game? It's rare. Also, who gets KO'd unconscious by a guy in top mount irl?

Because we only have one to chose from? In real life there are multiple.

The article also talks about the difficulty in escaping mount and the ability to land strikes in mount. It talks about the uncomfort of someone having you in mount

You have to understand that this game can't simulate real life 100% and there needs to be balance. This is coming from someone who plays a SIM style.

You can't just nerf everything because you can win using it.

If someone postures up in mount and lands 5 clean punches to your jaw you would be done. Watch Derek Lewis v Travis Brown

It's not impossible to escape mount either. Block 3 strikes get GA and transition?

The one area I think could improve are the arm trap windows but again this is not easy to do in real life.

Mount is a powerful position and has been recognised as such for years hence the jits scoring system.

As I said before you don't see so many finishes labelled as from mount as fighters usually give their back and neck for the choke.

That mechanic isn't going to be replicated in game because there are too many variables.what we have is a strong mount position that reflects the dangers that the position poses in real life.

[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by Serengeti95

This article talks about submissions from mount. I'm only talking about the rate of striking finishes from top mount. Which is much, much higher in game than irl. It's just too easy. If the system and sequences were better and you couldn't KO a guy stiff in 5 punches I'd be much more okay with it. I mean who really ever goes for a submission from top mount in this game? It's rare. Also, who gets KO'd unconscious by a guy in top mount irl?

When dudes get hit with heavy punches irl they usually give up their back and then get choked out.

If you choose to stay in mount that’s on you