Back Mount discussion

[SMOKEZERO]

Quote: Originally Posted by Find_the_Door

As of now it's just too easy to sit in back mount. Back mount is the safest position in the game when it should be the worst! Full Guard should be the safest and it's one of the most dangerous with a good top player.

Under the jujitsu philosophy sure, but in mma the rules and dangers of positions change drastically. Full guard isn't a safe bottom position in mma, especially closed guard. The percentages are always in favor for a smashing top game against a good bottom game. There's no power position in mma where your shoulders are flat on the mat and that includes full guard. It's also why half guard looks terrible in game, because you're literally stretched out, flat as a board... There are just so many aspects of real mma ground game that there has to be a give and take to make UFC 3 balanced. Back mount turtle isn't the worst position a mma fighter can be in, it's actually favorable and the scramble meta. Most fighters look to get there purposely exposing the back, turning the knees down, controlling a wrist and standing right up. You see this far more today and less RNC's than ever. So what, we have full get up transitions from side control bottom, but none from the bottom back mount? Oh, ok.


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[Find_the_Door]

Quote: Originally Posted by SMOKEZERO

Under the jujitsu philosophy sure, but in mma the rules and dangers of positions change drastically. Full guard isn't a safe bottom position in mma, especially closed guard. The percentages are always in favor for a smashing top game against a good bottom game. There's no power position in mma where your shoulders are flat on the mat and that includes full guard. It's also why half guard looks terrible in game, because you're literally stretched out, flat as a board... There are just so many aspects of real mma ground game that there has to be a give and take to make UFC 3 balanced. Back mount turtle isn't the worst position a mma fighter can be in, it's actually favorable and the scramble meta. Most fighters look to get there purposely exposing the back, turning the knees down, controlling a wrist and standing right up. You see this far more today and less RNC's than ever. So what, we have full get up transitions from side control bottom, but none from the bottom back mount? Oh, ok. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Sure and it's heavily going to depend on who's guard you're in. Yes half-guard is depicted incorrectly as you'd never just lay there flat. I wish things like Z guard and deep half were in (deep half is Nogueira's main game).

I'm not saying that turtle is a bad position to be in. It's a safe haven undoubtedly, but you're one step away from fully giving up your back. I am saying it's a total stall position within the context of the game as it currently stands.

Back mount (i.e not back mount turtle) itself is a bad position regardless of the ruleset. Currently it's the safest position on the ground right now and that's problematic. It's safer than turtle because they have an instant arm trap get up there (which you don't have in side control or any of the other positions referenced).

[UFCBlackbelt]

This still needs improvement, lots of guys are jumping straight to back mount.