Realistic tweak to forward moving combos.

[MartialMind]

When a realistic mechanic is introduced to the game, it almost always exposes flaws in artificial mechanics. With combinations finally interacting with head movement in a realistic way, flaws in the current combo system are being revealed.... AKA, they are stronger than they should be.

I expected this would happen, which is why i wanted to wait until after the patch drops to make this post.

As fighters throw certain combinations, especially while moving forward, they leave small pockets, giving the defender an opportunity to sneak in a strike or two.

We don't need to increase stamina drain on combos, we don't need to increase the speed of backward movement, we simply need to recreate those small pockets in a realistic way and allow players to take advantage of them.

FORWARD MOVING HARD COMBOS:

Right now, you can throw up to 4 very fast forward moving combinations without a break in between at all. With Conor, a player can advance with a Jab-straight-left hook-right hook combo and you're only options are this.

- Block all 4. Not good for your block
- Try to use slips but this is too risky
- Use the fast retreating movement but this costs too much stamina

Every option available right now is more risky than it needs to be. With the combination buff, the advantage now rests with the fighter who is throwing a combination vs a fighter moving their head carelessly and rightfully so. Now it's time to give advantage to the fighter using footwork over the fighter just constantly throwing combos.

To do this, forward moving combinations cannot be allowed to break the laws of physics any further.

What physics? Well look at the Gif below.



Khabib pushes off his back foot into a forward moving left hook followed by a right cross. Notice that after he threw the right cross, he is completely off balance.



Another example of this:



It is inevitable that a fighter would be off balance when a forward moving combo like this is thrown. For a fighter to follow up with another forward moving combination, he needs to recover his balance first.

This is now how it works in EA UFC 3 and that's an issue.

My suggestion:

If a player queues up more than 2 forward strikes, only the first 2 should count as a hard combo, and the 3rd strike should count as a soft combo.

Take the forward moving Jab-Straight-Left hook combo for example. This is how it looks in UFC3.



No breaks or reduction in forward momentum at all. I challenge anyone to find me a fighter throwing a forward moving 3 piece like this. After the straight, Conor should have to reset his feet and push off his back foot again, causing a slight delay, before then following up with the hook. It should look like this.



This slight break between the second and 3rd combo will give players enough time to keep the combination in check in a realistic way.

You can intercept the hook with a straight even after taking the Jab and straight on your block.



This also opens up the check hook which doesn't exist in the game right now at all. If you back up in time to make the Jab and Straight whiff completely, you can intercept the follow up hook with a check hook.



Right now in the game, if someone comes at you with these combos, your only two options are block and try to use head movement. A third is missing, the clean intercept and this will introduce it.

Again.... if a player queues up more than 2 forward moving combos, only the first 2 should count as a hard combo... then reset. This should work with all combos. Including the Jab-Jab straight combo.

If a player wants to throw more than 2 hard combos. He'll need to either do it all stationary, or throw the first 2 moving forward, then plant to throw the 3rd.

This is how i'd like to see forward moving combos dealt with.

STATIONARY HARD COMBOS:

A player that gets trapped against the cage right now or a player who is forced into close boxing range, can get overwhelmed with hard combos and his options to successfully deal with it are there but very risky and limited. I'd like to add one more option. REALISTIC counters off the block.

This is essentially a block buff, but one that would require skill and knowledge. Not just hugging it.

In boxing, a fighter can pick off certain shots and counter accordingly by simply using his block. Most times whether your counter lands depends on what side is open as a fighter is throwing a shot.

Example:

From close boxing range.
Fighter A is in the Orthodox stance
Fighter B is in the Orthodox stance
Fighter A throws a left hook to the body
Fighter B blocks it
Fighter B can immediately throw a right uppercut and catch Fighter A before he can block.

Here's a visual aid.



After a fighter throws a left hook to the body, his left side is wide open for the right uppercut. In the game this works. You can land a right uppercut clean immediately after blocking a left hook to the body.

I'd like to see more of these but with punches to the head.

Here are a few i'd like to see. Note, these all can be negated by simply blocking immediately after throwing.

Scenario 1:

* Fighter A throws a left hook right hook combination
* Fighter B blocks the left hook and lands a left hook before fighter A's right hook lands.
If fighter A throws a left hook but blocks right away, fighter B won't land his own left hook.

Logic:

When you throw a left hook, you can guard your right side with your block, but when you throw a Left hook, right hook, now your right side isn't guarded and there's a small opening in there for a fighter to sneak in a left hook.

This same scenario should also work with any combo involving the left hook.
So if fighter A throws a stationary Jab-straight-left hook-right hook.
Fighter B should be able to block the Jab-straight-left hook and land his own left hook before Fighter A's right hook lands.

Scenario 2

* Fighter A throws a right hook left hook combo
* Fighter B blocks the right hook and lands a left hook before fighter A can land his left hook

Logic:

The pocket opens on the right side of the fighter throwing, but AFTER the right hook is thrown. After a right hook is thrown it has to return to the guard, a fighter could sneak in a left hook in that time.

Again, this could be used to keep long combos under control.

If fighter A queues up a stationary Jab-right hook-left hook combo.
Fighter B can block the Jab-right hook, and land his own left hook before fighter A can land his left hook.

These are just two examples.

I'll add to these once i'm sure people are down with the idea. I also invite anyone here with boxing knowledge to add to these and make sure we don't miss any.

I'm gonna end it right here just so this doesn't become tedious to read.
Your feedback is very welcome!.

[LeonVegaSuarez]

Excellent suggestions. I'm all for realism and fighters just going forward throwing multi punch combos bothered me a bit. Vitor Belfort vs Wanderlei Silva is an example for a multi punch combo moving forward but it's all straight punches.


Regarding your second point, I'd also like to see counters off of blocks. Robbie Lawler for example throws hooks right after blocking punches, similar to what Gaethje does in the game. Maybe more unique block animations for some fighters would be a solution, but I'd like to somehow have this as an option for all fighters.

[Dankoz]

I am definitely down with the idea. Very good text, this would be huge improvement to gameplay.

[Nekrotik]

Brilliant post.

I've been trying to find a way to properly describe my feelings about how the striking should work, and you've nailed most of my ideas perfectly.

Striking while backing up pretty much never works. The range on the strikes is abysmal. During the beta it seemed to be more viable, that if someone was blindly rushing forward with combos, you could throw a well-timed check hook backing up and stop them in their tracks.

As it is now, this is nearly impossible. The combo will stun you no matter what you throw, and even if you interrupt the combo with a perfect strike, it will somehow put you at a lower stamina level than your opponent, who is then given an advantage in damage when they immediately throw a combo that you now cannot defend against.


Counter strikes need to be more effective. There has to be a defensive option against people spamming hard combos.

As a side note: It seems that every change made to improve Ranked, actually is detrimental to Ultimate Team. It'd be really awesome if the devs could look at having slightly different stat effects in each game mode to make it more playable. UT is a great concept, but it is ruined by cheese and mechanics that don't work due to low stats on even well-templated, 4-star fighters.

[jigsaw736]

I'm glad u posted this..

gpd is being falsely told by game Changers that running is OP. I'll say it again; I believe the game Changers like kenetic are so aggressive, they give input that helps them. Please hire a defensive minded game changer

its just not true, there is Nothing a defensive fighter can do agaisnt a combo heavy forward moving fighter.. Except block or hope you can make them miss. maintaining distance is underpowered

You could play the stam game but fighting Bisping in a 3 rd fight.. good luck.

[WarMMA]

Great post...I like it. Definitely down for ideas like this to be implemented. Would definitely improve the realism in striking even more.

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

You I was thinking months ago ...are there any combat games that let you block with left as you throw a strike with your right ?

Just let that sink in .

I don't know if this will solve the problem of the combo spam or the freezing jab ,or the current jab straight .

It's seems like right now it's just strike strike strike strike and see who goes down first .

I appreciate the devs but man it must be tough for them.




Sent from my Infinix Zero 4 using Tapatalk

[Thetruth9012]

Quote: Originally Posted by MartialMind

When a realistic mechanic is introduced to the game, it almost always exposes flaws in artificial mechanics. With combinations finally interacting with head movement in a realistic way, flaws in the current combo system are being revealed.... AKA, they are stronger than they should be. I expected this would happen, which is why i wanted to wait until after the patch drops to make this post. As fighters throw certain combinations, especially while moving forward, they leave small pockets, giving the defender an opportunity to sneak in a strike or two. We don't need to increase stamina drain on combos, we don't need to increase the speed of backward movement, we simply need to recreate those small pockets in a realistic way and allow players to take advantage of them. FORWARD MOVING HARD COMBOS: Right now, you can throw up to 4 very fast forward moving combinations without a break in between at all. With Conor, a player can advance with a Jab-straight-left hook-right hook combo and you're only options are this. - Block all 4. Not good for your block - Try to use slips but this is too risky - Use the fast retreating movement but this costs too much stamina Every option available right now is more risky than it needs to be. With the combination buff, the advantage now rests with the fighter who is throwing a combination vs a fighter moving their head carelessly and rightfully so. Now it's time to give advantage to the fighter using footwork over the fighter just constantly throwing combos. To do this, forward moving combinations cannot be allowed to break the laws of physics any further. What physics? Well look at the Gif below. Khabib pushes off his back foot into a forward moving left hook followed by a right cross. Notice that after he threw the right cross, he is completely off balance. Another example of this: It is inevitable that a fighter would be off balance when a forward moving combo like this is thrown. For a fighter to follow up with another forward moving combination, he needs to recover his balance first. This is now how it works in EA UFC 3 and that's an issue. My suggestion: If a player queues up more than 2 forward strikes, only the first 2 should count as a hard combo, and the 3rd strike should count as a soft combo. Take the forward moving Jab-Straight-Left hook combo for example. This is how it looks in UFC3. No breaks or reduction in forward momentum at all. I challenge anyone to find me a fighter throwing a forward moving 3 piece like this. After the straight, Conor should have to reset his feet and push off his back foot again, causing a slight delay, before then following up with the hook. It should look like this. This slight break between the second and 3rd combo will give players enough time to keep the combination in check in a realistic way. You can intercept the hook with a straight even after taking the Jab and straight on your block. This also opens up the check hook which doesn't exist in the game right now at all. If you back up in time to make the Jab and Straight whiff completely, you can intercept the follow up hook with a check hook. Right now in the game, if someone comes at you with these combos, your only two options are block and try to use head movement. A third is missing, the clean intercept and this will introduce it. Again.... if a player queues up more than 2 forward moving combos, only the first 2 should count as a hard combo... then reset. This should work with all combos. Including the Jab-Jab straight combo. If a player wants to throw more than 2 hard combos. He'll need to either do it all stationary, or throw the first 2 moving forward, then plant to throw the 3rd. This is how i'd like to see forward moving combos dealt with. STATIONARY HARD COMBOS: A player that gets trapped against the cage right now or a player who is forced into close boxing range, can get overwhelmed with hard combos and his options to successfully deal with it are there but very risky and limited. I'd like to add one more option. REALISTIC counters off the block. This is essentially a block buff, but one that would require skill and knowledge. Not just hugging it. In boxing, a fighter can pick off certain shots and counter accordingly by simply using his block. Most times whether your counter lands depends on what side is open as a fighter is throwing a shot. Example: From close boxing range. Fighter A is in the Orthodox stance Fighter B is in the Orthodox stance Fighter A throws a left hook to the body Fighter B blocks it Fighter B can immediately throw a right uppercut and catch Fighter A before he can block. Here's a visual aid. After a fighter throws a left hook to the body, his left side is wide open for the right uppercut. In the game this works. You can land a right uppercut clean immediately after blocking a left hook to the body. I'd like to see more of these but with punches to the head. Here are a few i'd like to see. Note, these all can be negated by simply blocking immediately after throwing. Scenario 1: * Fighter A throws a left hook right hook combination * Fighter B blocks the left hook and lands a left hook before fighter A's right hook lands. If fighter A throws a left hook but blocks right away, fighter B won't land his own left hook. Logic: When you throw a left hook, you can guard your right side with your block, but when you throw a Left hook, right hook, now your right side isn't guarded and there's a small opening in there for a fighter to sneak in a left hook. This same scenario should also work with any combo involving the left hook. So if fighter A throws a stationary Jab-straight-left hook-right hook. Fighter B should be able to block the Jab-straight-left hook and land his own left hook before Fighter A's right hook lands. Scenario 2 * Fighter A throws a right hook left hook combo * Fighter B blocks the right hook and lands a left hook before fighter A can land his left hook Logic: The pocket opens on the right side of the fighter throwing, but AFTER the right hook is thrown. After a right hook is thrown it has to return to the guard, a fighter could sneak in a left hook in that time. Again, this could be used to keep long combos under control. If fighter A queues up a stationary Jab-right hook-left hook combo. Fighter B can block the Jab-right hook, and land his own left hook before fighter A can land his left hook. These are just two examples. I'll add to these once i'm sure people are down with the idea. I also invite anyone here with boxing knowledge to add to these and make sure we don't miss any. I'm gonna end it right here just so this doesn't become tedious to read. Your feedback is very welcome!.

Amazing post and great idea that will move this game to real fighting even more.