Strike output

[DaisukEasy]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

This is not my argument. Once again, this is not my argument. Dont yell at me. I've heard some high level fighters argue that there are three reasons for the high input: 1) The current meta makes it so that you need to have a high output in order to break people's blocks.

Increase bleed through and/or make health events last 10 seconds so that they're actually significant.

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2) Increasing the stamina tax on throwing strikes that are blocked or dont land at all (not caused by a whiff) will encourage people to run and camp and hide block even more just so they can get a stamina advantage,

With extra guard bleed through and dangerous & scary health events, willingly taking shots you without firing back is just going to guarantee you lose the fight (assuming your opponent knows how to pace himself)

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3) The reason for the high output is because the game doesnt have other things like handfighting that typically take up the time between strikes in real fights.

This has nothing to do with the disproportional output. People are way more hesitant to throw in real life because it's risky.

Throwing a lot tires you out.
Throwing a lot opens you up to getting countered and waking up on the floor.

That's why you generally have a feeling out process in the beginning of a fight. Rarely do fighters start out like Max Holloway at the end of the round against Lamas.

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I dont agree with their position but these are opinions held by alot of top fighters.

They're probably right that things are the way they are by design.. But that doesn't mean it should stay that way.

[CareBear59]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

This is not my argument. Once again, this is not my argument. Dont yell at me. I've heard some high level fighters argue that there are three reasons for the high input: 1) The current meta makes it so that you need to have a high output in order to break people's blocks. 2) Increasing the stamina tax on throwing strikes that are blocked or dont land at all (not caused by a whiff) will encourage people to run and camp and hide block even more just so they can get a stamina advantage, 3) The reason for the high output is because the game doesnt have other things like handfighting that typically take up the time between strikes in real fights. I dont agree with their position but these are opinions held by alot of top fighters.

I just want to know who these high level fighters are?I believe you when you say some say this,but if these people are the ones who are on top of the leader-board then of course they don't want a change cause they mastered the way the game works and know how to win.If the game changed then they might not be considered high level anymore.

[1stChrisso]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

This is not my argument. Once again, this is not my argument. Dont yell at me. I've heard some high level fighters argue that there are three reasons for the high input: 1) The current meta makes it so that you need to have a high output in order to break people's blocks. 2) Increasing the stamina tax on throwing strikes that are blocked or dont land at all (not caused by a whiff) will encourage people to run and camp and hide block even more just so they can get a stamina advantage, 3) The reason for the high output is because the game doesnt have other things like handfighting that typically take up the time between strikes in real fights. I dont agree with their position but these are opinions held by alot of top fighters.

to 1) I always said block breaking is a terrible mechanic. It forces you to throw hundreds of strikes. Very obvious, total fail.

to 2) Actually to move around and get a stamina advantage is a common startegy. If you run too much you won't win. So I don't see too much of a problem with that. Footwork speed in this game overall is too high, also defensive "running". Total fail.

to 3) Some sort of parries would be sim. Not the ones with free counters in EA UFC 2. Also takedowns and grappling is too weak and therefor the strike output is too high, total fail.

[1stChrisso]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

7500 isnt a bad number but I'm not going to argue that one again. It lines up with where UFC 2 was at this time. The game wasnt rushed either. The reality is not everyone wants a hardcore sim.

Of course the game was rushed. It is just stupid to add plenty of new animations and mechanics post release. Imagine how the game changed since release. It is another game! Which other sports games add this amount of game changing things and animations? I can't name one. I mean post launch support is great but please release a game with all the new animations in it right from the start. After that we should get some balancing stuff and maybe 1 or 2 missing animations. The game was rushed, please stop to defend EA and the Devs.


And please stop with your "hardcore" sim assumption. You're bringing that one up over and over and over again. I don't want a "hardcore" sim. I doubt many people want that. Other sports games aren't hardcore sims either. We want a balanced game between sim and arcade. I always said a slighlty more sim approach than 50 % would be enough. Atm we are at 80 % arcade and 20 % sim in terms of stamina and combos. The game is mediocre and still not much fun. Most times it's painful lol

[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1stChrisso

Of course the game was rushed. It is just stupid to add plenty of new animations and mechanics post release. Imagine how the game changed since release. It is another game! Which other sports games add this amount of game changing things and animations? I can't name one. I mean post launch support is great but please release a game with all the new animations in it right from the start. After that we should get some balancing stuff and maybe 1 or 2 missing animations. The game was rushed, please stop to defend EA and the Devs. And please stop with your "hardcore" sim assumption. You're bringing that one up over and over and over again. I don't want a "hardcore" sim. I doubt many people want that. Other sports games aren't hardcore sims either. We want a balanced game between sim and arcade. I always said a slighlty more sim approach than 50 % would be enough. Atm we are at 80 % arcade and 20 % sim in terms of stamina and combos. The game is mediocre and still not much fun. Most times it's painful lol

There are a lot more people than you think that want hardcore sim.

Even in 2k, Madden there’s a fairly significant crowd that used all the customization available to create a realistic game.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1stChrisso

Of course the game was rushed. It is just stupid to add plenty of new animations and mechanics post release. Imagine how the game changed since release. It is another game! Which other sports games add this amount of game changing things and animations? I can't name one. I mean post launch support is great but please release a game with all the new animations in it right from the start. After that we should get some balancing stuff and maybe 1 or 2 missing animations. The game was rushed, please stop to defend EA and the Devs. And please stop with your "hardcore" sim assumption. You're bringing that one up over and over and over again. I don't want a "hardcore" sim. I doubt many people want that. Other sports games aren't hardcore sims either. We want a balanced game between sim and arcade. I always said a slighlty more sim approach than 50 % would be enough. Atm we are at 80 % arcade and 20 % sim in terms of stamina and combos. The game is mediocre and still not much fun. Most times it's painful lol

LOL. 4 mos after release this is all I can say to statements like this:

I'm sorry you arent happy with the game.

I am. Honestly. This is probably the best offline MMA game I've ever played. I can get realistic strikes totals and stamina with sliders. I'm happy that they keep adding more features. Even if they stopped today, I would be happy with the game.

The game wasnt rushed. I've followed the game since development started on it. Did they get everything they wanted to in the game at launch? No but that doesnt mean the game was rushed.

Anyway, sucks that you dont like the game. Hopefully, you will like the game after a few more patches. Or like UFC 4 better. Or some other game company will make a MMA game and you will like that.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by CareBear59

I just want to know who these high level fighters are?I believe you when you say some say this,but if these people are the ones who are on top of the leader-board then of course they don't want a change cause they mastered the way the game works and know how to win.If the game changed then they might not be considered high level anymore.

I'm not going to call people out by name but some of them are GCs and a few of them arent. I dont think these people are trying to protect their spot on the leaderboard. Some of them are people who dont play competitive everyday.

They just have a different perspective on the game than I do.

Regarding the suggestions to just increase bleedthrough and increase the length of health events, that is a possible solution but it has some negative effects too. The majority of people who play this game use block as their primary means of defense. Especially new and casual fans. Significantly weakening that form of defense could make it easier for them to be KO'd and lead to frustration and complaints from them.

Also, overall it will likely lead to a meta that many high level players (and some people in general) dont like. I would love a more cautious and slower meta but I wonder if the majority would. From the statements I've read here and other places, I'm not sure they would.

[1stChrisso]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

LOL. 4 mos after release this is all I can say to statements like this: I'm sorry you arent happy with the game. I am. Honestly. This is probably the best offline MMA game I've ever played. I can get realistic strikes totals and stamina with sliders. I'm happy that they keep adding more features. Even if they stopped today, I would be happy with the game. The game wasnt rushed. I've followed the game since development started on it. Did they get everything they wanted to in the game at launch? No but that doesnt mean the game was rushed. Anyway, sucks that you dont like the game. Hopefully, you will like the game after a few more patches. Or like UFC 4 better. Or some other game company will make a MMA game and you will like that.

I guess you just have low expectations.