Why do fighters in the game move backwards far slower than fighters moving forwards?

[Dankoz]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZHunter1990

What is "fighting smart" I see a lot of people say it, but if we are being honest here, all we are doing is pressing buttons and moving sticks around mixed in with timing and making correct reads. Smart by definition means having or showing a quick witted intelligence.

Fighting smart = Outsmarting your opponent. Angles, feints, footwork & head movement. Keep the distance, gas him out, make him hit the air constantly & hit well timed single shots from nasty angles.

Thompson got outsmarted by Till 2 months ago.

Combos are OP in this game compared to single shots and it doesn't work that way IRL.

[ZHunter1990]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dankoz

Fighting smart = Outsmarting your opponent. Angles, feints, footwork & head movement. Gas him out, make him hit the air constantly & hit well timed single shots from nasty angles. Thompson got outsmarted by Till 2 months ago.

Angles dont exist in game, they never have. Although I wish they did.

Feints are very relevant, so is head movement.

Besides cage control and making correct reads on when to lunge, which I agree are currently too risky. How can you make footwork in game skilled more skilled? That doesnt boil down to "Im getting beat up, let me use my free pass to get away when I cant handle the heat"?

You can already gas people out easily using head movement and counters to the body, fairly quickly if they are being wreckless. I can provide some examples if you'd like.

Edit: I do agree that single strikes are a little weak.

[Dankoz]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZHunter1990

Angles dont exist in game, they never have. Although I wish they did. Feints are very relevant, so is head movement. Besides cage control and making correct reads on when to lunge, which I agree are currently too risky. How can you make footwork in game skilled more skilled? That doesnt boil down to "Im getting beat up, let me use my free pass to get away when I cant handle the heat"? You can already gas people out easily using head movement and counters to the body, fairly quickly if they are being wreckless. I can provide some examples if you'd like. Edit: I do agree that single strikes are a little weak.

I just feel like forward moving combos are pretty much OP compared to single shots from any other direction. It was easier to use your footwork + head movement & strike with hard shots from other directions at first place. There isn't enough balance between forward moving strikes and other directions. Fighting agressive isn't risky enough & it doesn't take enough skills compared to outside fighting.

There should be stamina tax for footwork. If you chase your opponent constantly you should lose large amount of stamina. That would make game more realistic as there is already stamina tax for lunges & staff like that.

They definitely are and it makes it too easy for agressive fighters. You can slip their shot perfectly and land clean strike right after which is total pitty-patty most of times. Power modifier is perfect solution & it would bring more balance for game.

[1212headkick]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZHunter1990

What is "fighting smart" I see a lot of people say it, but if we are being honest here, all we are doing is pressing buttons and moving sticks around mixed in with timing and making correct reads. Smart by definition means having or showing a quick witted intelligence. More idle time = less skill and smarts involved. Edit: To be clear, I am not saying that you should have to punch 100 times a minute to play smart, you can still play like a braindead zombie(and lose) throwing a bajillion strikes. But interaction between the two players by the pressing of commands is what we have to work with here.

Not burning through stamina. Not throwing 500 strikes a match. By the end of Diaz mcgregor 2 they barely cracked 200. Circling away after an engagement making your opponent miss and then firing back. Aggression will most of the time get beat by a great outside fighter. It’s impossible to replicate Cruz’s real style in this game or Stephen Thompson. Their whole style is what you call “running” it seems like the community says “hey nerf aggression” and what’s repeated to the devs is “hey buff aggression quietly behind the guise of a buff to outside fighting” aggression makes for ugly gameplay. You have fighters literally throwing 200 strikes a round ending up with full stamina. Conor was gassed in 8 minutes I’m both the first and second fight with Diaz. Diaz was just blocking. You can hear his corner tell him just block Nate just use your blocks. I don’t think we’re being properly represented on what we’d like. When someone is able to walk right up in your face without having to barely to anything to close the distance it makes the game inherently broken. They should respect the patience of an outside fighter. One of the keys to making correct reads is asking “is my opponent being aggressive?” That literally changes the dynamics of the whole fight. If you want to punish them your free to do so but you must control your volume. The problem is we’re being asked to use outside fighting more skillfully while pressure fighters can just throw and throw and throw and aren’t hindered whatsoever. This game clearly caters to just one style. Aggressive striking

[1212headkick]

[ZHunter1990]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dankoz

I just feel like forward moving combos are pretty much OP compared to single shots from any other direction. It was easier to use your footwork + head movement & strike with hard shots from other directions at first place. There isn't enough balance between forward moving strikes and other directions. Fighting agressive isn't risky enough & it doesn't take enough skills compared to outside fighting. There should be stamina tax for footwork. If you chase your opponent constantly you should lose large amount of stamina. That would make game more realistic as there is already stamina tax for lunges & staff like that. They definitely are and it makes it too easy for agressive fighters. You can slip their shot perfectly and land clean strike right after which is total pitty-patty most of times. Power modifier is perfect solution & it would bring more balance for game.

I agree with a power modifier and many counters not registering as counter strikes.

However, forward moving combos aren't OP. Stationary combos are much better than forward moving combos. They are MUCH faster, drain less stamina, and leave you less vulnerable. The only perk to forward moving combos is the range, which is now predictable due to Martials suggested change a few patches back. The 3rd strike in a forward moving combo either falls short and whiffs at the end of punch range or the aggressor has to delay the strike to keep range. This gives you a window to intercept consistently on any FWD moving combo 3 punches or longer.


Also, chasing someone shouldnt be more draining than backpedaling or circling.
Naturally, when you control the center of the octagon you dont have to move as much to close distance as your opponent who is on the outside. Moving backwards or at an angle also certainly isnt easier or less taxing than moving forwards.

[ZHunter1990]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1212headkick

Not burning through stamina. Not throwing 500 strikes a match. By the end of Diaz mcgregor 2 they barely cracked 200. Circling away after an engagement making your opponent miss and then firing back. Aggression will most of the time get beat by a great outside fighter. It’s impossible to replicate Cruz’s real style in this game or Stephen Thompson. Their whole style is what you call “running” it seems like the community says “hey nerf aggression” and what’s repeated to the devs is “hey buff aggression quietly behind the guise of a buff to outside fighting” aggression makes for ugly gameplay. You have fighters literally throwing 200 strikes a round ending up with full stamina. Conor was gassed in 8 minutes I’m both the first and second fight with Diaz. Diaz was just blocking. You can hear his corner tell him just block Nate just use your blocks. I don’t think we’re being properly represented on what we’d like. When someone is able to walk right up in your face without having to barely to anything to close the distance it makes the game inherently broken. They should respect the patience of an outside fighter. One of the keys to making correct reads is asking “is my opponent being aggressive?” That literally changes the dynamics of the whole fight. If you want to punish them your free to do so but you must control your volume. The problem is we’re being asked to use outside fighting more skillfully while pressure fighters can just throw and throw and throw and aren’t hindered whatsoever. This game clearly caters to just one style. Aggressive striking

Actually Diaz threw over 430 strikes. He landed a little over 250. Conor threw over 320 strikes and landed just shy of 200.
Nice try though.

Great outside fighters have quite a few qualities in common, lets go through this shall we?

1.) They dont fold under pressure or get overwhelmed easily.
Pressure busts pipes, and some people just aren't cut out to be outside fighters. If you have problems dealing with constant aggression, you either are not using the tools at your disposal and the inherent advantages you are given i game for making your opponent come to you. So before we talk about the ability to actually outside fight, you probably need to learn to make your opponent respect you, because that is where the poking begins.

2.) They keep their opponent honest when they get wreckless
To my last point, there is an inherent disadvantage to trading forward moving strikes with stationary strikes. If somebody moving forward is continually losing exchanges with your stationary strikes, they will either back off and reconsider their plan of attack, or keep losing exchanges.

If they choose option b, that is on them. But if they choose option A, they are going to poke forward with 1 or 2 punch combinations to see how you react. You can now use this slower pace to your advantage as a lengthier fighter or an outside fighter.


3.) They utilize rangey strikes.
This is where it gets interesting.
You lot should really be complaining about the fact that jabs, straights, hooks and uppercuts all have the same exact range. Meaning if I am close enough to hit you with a straight, you are close enough to hit me with an uppercut. Thus making any punch range, pocket range. How on earth are you supposed to utilize your most fundamental weapons(1 and 2) as an out fighter effectively?

4.) They dedicate years to honing in movement
Guys like Thompson, Cruz, Machida..etc have spent years honing this skill. It isnt as simple as "Im going to disengage and be safe now" and we need something concrete and tangible to represent that skill. Not just a circle out button(get out of jail free card) to use when you cant handle the heat.

[ZHunter1990]

Quote: Originally Posted by 1212headkick

Dont come at me with fight metrics based on fight results or any realism arguement when your only gameplan in game for 3+ months was 1-2 single collar followed by trying to get Muay Thai so you could go for flying submissions and call yourself a submission expert.