Game Adjustments to deal with unrealistic pressure

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

Oh I know you're not arguing with me Bro. I just thought that throwing out a big number like 10%-15% would be a little bit too much. " Now people probably average 80-100 strikes a round in the game right now. Even at the low end (80 strikes) people will likely gas in the middle of the 2nd round if they regularly throw combos (not a ridiculous amount but a good amount)." Not necessarily true. I had a fight against Swiss-Libax earlier today when I had Tom Duquesnoy and he had Garbrandt, he threw 177 strikes in Round 1, landed about 60. I threw 80, landed 40. When the 2nd Round started, he had the same amount of stamina as me. (The sliver of stamina that pops up) I fought a McGregor Player with Bruce Lee. He threw 140 something strikes in Round 1, landed 40. I threw 60 something strikes, landed about 30. 2nd round started, from the sliver of stamina in the beginning of the round, he had almost a full bar of stamina. "each 3 strike combo should take 2% perm stamina, that means if I throw 5 jab-jab-straights in a round (15 strikes)...10% of your perm stamina will be gone." That's something that I was looking for. I don't want it to be an exaggerated drain, but something reasonable that when somebody is successfully defending and swaying, the offensive fighter just can't continue to block break and fire off more strikes without thinking about their stamina for later in the fight if it gets there. "Now if you mean that if someone is throwing alot of combos there should be an overall increase of 2-5% for perm stamina loss, that likely wont get you what you are looking for. Even a 5% increase would likely be too little to really notice." How about 7%?

One, I cant really break down the Cody and Conor fights just by numbers because stamina loss in this game depends so much on what happened. Did he land alot of body shots? Did you land many? Were you using blocking as your primary means of defense or where you creating whiffs. Also, Cody has a 94 strike stamina. Tom has an 87. That may not seem like a huge difference but it is pretty huge. No matter how much the stamina tax is, he will always have an advantage on you.

Two, is a big one. Its also the source of the biggest divide (IMO) between the people who post here and some of the Gamechangers and the devs. People on OS want the actions a fighter takes to have the biggest bearing on perm stamina loss.

What I mean by that is they look at someone throwing 150 plus strikes a round and they say "I dont care if he is landing those strikes, whiffing on those strikes or all the strikes are being blocked...if you throw 150 strikes a round, your perm stamina should be very low".

Others (including the devs) want your actions to cause your opponent's stamina loss. Am I throwing body shots to drain your stamina? Am I using movement including head movement to cause you to miss or am I just holding my block? They want some level of "skill" to be the reason behind someone's stamina drain.

Until these two sides are able to find a middle ground, there will always be stamina complaints.



In my opinion, a stamina tax even as small as 2% per combo may be too severe especially when it comes to half of the roster who have average stamina stats. The fact that simply by throwing 15 combos, you are at 70% perm stamina is tough (Also, people like Duquesnoy who have lower stamina will likely hit 70% before 15). This is before you factor in the stamina loss that comes from missed/whiffed strikes, taking body strikes and the small amount that comes from blocked strikes.

It will turn the meta into people who throw single strikes or two punch combos and lower the strike output to the mid 50s-60s, if you want to guarantee that your fighter will be fresh. Now OS may like that.....but plenty would ****ing hate that. Especially the ranked comp players.

[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

One, I cant really break down the Cody and Conor fights just by numbers because stamina loss in this game depends so much on what happened. Did he land alot of body shots? Did you land many? Were you using blocking as your primary means of defense or where you creating whiffs. Also, Cody has a 94 strike stamina. Tom has an 87. That may not seem like a huge difference but it is pretty huge. No matter how much the stamina tax is, he will always have an advantage on you. Two, is a big one. Its also the source of the biggest divide (IMO) between the people who post here and some of the Gamechangers and the devs. People on OS want the actions a fighter takes to have the biggest bearing on perm stamina loss. What I mean by that is they look at someone throwing 150 plus strikes a round and they say "I dont care if he is landing those strikes, whiffing on those strikes or all the strikes are being blocked...if you throw 150 strikes a round, your perm stamina should be very low". Others (including the devs) want your actions to cause your opponent's stamina loss. Am I throwing body shots to drain your stamina? Am I using movement including head movement to cause you to miss or am I just holding my block? They want some level of "skill" to be the reason behind someone's stamina drain. Until these two sides are able to find a middle ground, there will always be stamina complaints. In my opinion, a stamina tax even as small as 2% per combo may be too severe especially when it comes to half of the roster who have average stamina stats. The fact that simply by throwing 15 combos, you are at 70% perm stamina is tough (Also, people like Duquesnoy who have lower stamina will likely hit 70% before 15). This is before you factor in the stamina loss that comes from missed/whiffed strikes, taking body strikes and the small amount that comes from blocked strikes. It will turn the meta into people who throw single strikes or two punch combos and lower the strike output to the mid 50s-60s, if you want to guarantee that your fighter will be fresh. Now OS may like that.....but plenty would ****ing hate that. Especially the ranked comp players.

Great points. Also I figured as much with the whole percentages, which was why I didn't want to throw out a big number. If 1% more does it, then factoring whatever gets drained from missed/whiffed strikes and the stamina drain on blocked strikes can hopefully work there as well. So far I love the way the game is now. Maybe lowering the stamina drain on denials and things would be set, now as for the fights I mentioned:

Well the Conor fight I won when I had Lee. He was the typical Conor player, Jab, Jab Hook, Jab Uppercut Hook.
Jab. Jab Straight. Jab Uppercut Hook.
Despite me doing the necessary things to drain his stamina ,like using the minor back sways and slips I was just surprised to see that his stamina was the same as mine heading into the second round before I won.


The Duquesnoy Fight I used the head movement as best as I could, but there were times where I would still get hooked despite timing the back sway accordingly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the GPD that said that if you sway a strike you can freely block the next one? In that fight there were plenty of times where he would throw the jab uppercut hook hook, and when I minor back swayed the 1st hook I would then get hit with the 2nd hook. Sometimes the hook will still 'hit' regardless of the minor back sway being out of it's range. The other option was ducking the 1st hook and then I was able to block the 2nd hook.

He landed body shots, but so did I. He would throw the body shots after his three four hit combinations as I was backing away, I would throw knees as a means to catch him and they were effective for a bit. I'm pretty sure if somebody's pressing forward their vulnerability should be a bit higher, and despite stat differences a knee to the head/body as somebody is going a body straight-lead body hook should help a lot. Eventually I got caught in an exchange against Garbrandt and well, Tom ain't besting Cody in the phone booth lol.

What threw me off is that I saw him stumble (as a sign as his stamina being low) TWICE in round 1 and he still had more Stamina than me.

I eventually matched up with him in ranked again and beat him with Lee when he had Garbrandt and did a better job of targetting the liver with the side kicks to get the finish. Still, the first round was more or less the same but the side kicks from Round 1 definitely helped in terms of damage.

How would 1% be overall in terms of stamina loss from combos? Plus adding into whatever gets taken away from misses, whiffs, blocked strikes etc.

[bmlimo]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

One, I cant really break down the Cody and Conor fights just by numbers because stamina loss in this game depends so much on what happened. Did he land alot of body shots? Did you land many? Were you using blocking as your primary means of defense or where you creating whiffs. Also, Cody has a 94 strike stamina. Tom has an 87. That may not seem like a huge difference but it is pretty huge. No matter how much the stamina tax is, he will always have an advantage on you. Two, is a big one. Its also the source of the biggest divide (IMO) between the people who post here and some of the Gamechangers and the devs. People on OS want the actions a fighter takes to have the biggest bearing on perm stamina loss. What I mean by that is they look at someone throwing 150 plus strikes a round and they say "I dont care if he is landing those strikes, whiffing on those strikes or all the strikes are being blocked...if you throw 150 strikes a round, your perm stamina should be very low". Others (including the devs) want your actions to cause your opponent's stamina loss. Am I throwing body shots to drain your stamina? Am I using movement including head movement to cause you to miss or am I just holding my block? They want some level of "skill" to be the reason behind someone's stamina drain. Until these two sides are able to find a middle ground, there will always be stamina complaints. In my opinion, a stamina tax even as small as 2% per combo may be too severe especially when it comes to half of the roster who have average stamina stats. The fact that simply by throwing 15 combos, you are at 70% perm stamina is tough (Also, people like Duquesnoy who have lower stamina will likely hit 70% before 15). This is before you factor in the stamina loss that comes from missed/whiffed strikes, taking body strikes and the small amount that comes from blocked strikes. It will turn the meta into people who throw single strikes or two punch combos and lower the strike output to the mid 50s-60s, if you want to guarantee that your fighter will be fresh. Now OS may like that.....but plenty would ****ing hate that. Especially the ranked comp players.

I hate this logic... the spammer pressure fighter can hit your body too, can whiff when you try to counter him. so he can throw 120+ strikes in a round and still drain you more... in the end its a battle of who throw more shots in the guard and in the body to get stamina advantage

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

How would 1% be overall in terms of stamina loss from combos? Plus adding into whatever gets taken away from misses, whiffs, blocked strikes etc.

It would result in much and you guys would be complaining that it isnt enough. You guys have no clue how complicated this can be. GPD can correct me if I'm wrong but their are different perm stamina drains for each type of strike and its increased by the result of the strike (hit, whiff or block). Thats not even factoring each individuals stamina ratings or the perm stamina loss from body shots or stamina loss from things like lunges.

Like right now, you may look at how it feels when you use someone like Duqesnoy and say "This feels good stamina wise. If I go crazy I will gas but if I pace myself, I'm fine. Every fighter should feel this way" The problem there is a pretty broad range in stamina. So if overall stamina is lowered so a Nate Diaz (who has a high stamina rating and perks) starts to gas in round 2 if you are at 150-200 total (a good thing), it means that a guy like Tom is going to be absolutely dead in round 2 at that same pace.

We also would have to redo the stamina ratings for each low tier fighter who deserves it (we have been doing that for a while now) and that still doesnt guarantee it would be enough.

This isnt even factoring in that the devs data seems to show that lower level fighters seem to enjoy faster paced (maybe unrealistic fights) and ranked comp players already seem to feel like stamina is already taxed at a good rate.

Its just tough man.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by bmlimo

I hate this logic... the spammer pressure fighter can hit your body too, can whiff when you try to counter him. so he can throw 120+ strikes in a round and still drain you more... in the end its a battle of who throw more shots in the guard and in the body to get stamina advantage

Its not my logic. Its the other side of the argument. It goes to the OP in this thread. People on OS swear that pressure is still a problem. High level comp players swear that pressure is impossible without getting blown up or putting yourself at a big disadvantage.

Same with stamina. I dont know who the devs will listen to. I'm just glad to have sliders offline so I dont have to deal with it.

[GrimLeiper]

Been keeping up with this thread and whilst I was playing last night, I noticed once I had won, I had a considerable amount of strikes vs his. My landed percentage was similar despite me throwing more.

It got me thinking - some people on here would disapprove of my output and yet, I wasn't spamming. I was walking him down, knowing which strikes he wanted to throw, and I'd counter those strikes with my own.

The point I'm getting at is: I don't think it's quite enough to just show numbers from the end of the fight, to suggest there's an issue with pressure/stamina.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

[Pappy Knuckles]

Quote: Originally Posted by GrimLeiper

Been keeping up with this thread and whilst I was playing last night, I noticed once I had won, I had a considerable amount of strikes vs his. My landed percentage was similar despite me throwing more. It got me thinking - some people on here would disapprove of my output and yet, I wasn't spamming. I was walking him down, knowing which strikes he wanted to throw, and I'd counter those strikes with my own. The point I'm getting at is: I don't think it's quite enough to just show numbers from the end of the fight, to suggest there's an issue with pressure/stamina. Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Operation Sports mobile app

I agree. Numbers themselves don't tell the whole story. I love playing skilled opponents and having methodical fights, but if someone is letting you piece them up with intelligent work, why not keep attacking? Smart aggression is fine by me.

What can be frustrating for me at times is when I'm countering the hell out my opponent with stiff, quality work only to be dropped with some mindless spam against the fence. I doesn't happen to nearly the level it did when this game dropped, though.

The positive of dealing with so many ultra-aggressive guys is that it gives you a ton of practice in the pocket. And a lot of times you'll have to bang out with them just to give them something to think about.

[GrimLeiper]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pappy Knuckles

What can be frustrating for me at times is when I'm countering the hell out my opponent with stiff, quality work only to be dropped with some mindless spam against the fence. I doesn't happen to nearly the level it did when this game dropped, though. The positive of dealing with so many ultra-aggressive guys is that it gives you a ton of practice in the pocket. And a lot of times you'll have to bang out with them just to give them something to think about.

Isn't it? Lost so many fights doing silly sways, but that's me forcing a playstyle I want - one with a lot of head movement.

Still on the fence regarding the pressure and stamina question. Literally just fought two aggressive (in your face) fighters, one of them was 1-0 on me. He was Choi, I went Ortega and managed fine without teep kicks, pushes, or much grappling(he seemed decent at grappling so didn't force it like I normally do with Ortega). The stamina difference became obvious when he was getting rocked pretty much every time I landed a straight in the 2nd round.