Directional Hitting

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Directional Hitting

You can already use directional hitting. It is all timing.....

This feature sounds like it will contradict the spray charts which I don't like.

I played the heck out of MVP and its hitting timing is pretty similar to the show. The only thing I will say about MVP is that it is was too linear of a hitting system. Meaning if you hit the green spot of the timing then you knew it was going to be hit and if you the yellow or red it would be weak. I don't like that, because certain hitters CAN PULL OUTSIDE PITCHES and they do frequently, especially power hitters.

I just hope they don't dumb it down again and again. They made it too easy to pull in 13 and 14 seems about right. Timing should be the number one factor in where the ball is hit combined with the spray chart of that hitter. I don't want to see some gimmick feature like guess pitch or make the current "swing influence" feature stronger to compensate for users' lack of skill and awareness.

I think MLB needs to focus more on tendencies and spray charts, along with bat speed. Not every hitter has the same bat speed so this should have a direct correlation with their spray chart. It should be the user's responsibility to learn each players' tendencies and to exploit them. If you are using a pull hitter you should get a slight bonus or more bias towards pulling it rather than going opposite field.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Directional Hitting

But with directional hitting you still have to swing where the ball is. At least you did in MVP. If the pitch was low and away and you swung up and in and timed it perfectly, there was still a good chance you'd miss the pitch entirely. If you did make contact it would be very weak. And the same thing happens in The Show with zone. I've had my PCI way, way off the mark, but I timed the ball right and I at least made contact. Either way, and again, to each their own. This is yet one of the many reasons why The Show is so good. So many options.

No.

MVP was simply inside, middle or away. You only used Up or Down to influence fly/ground balls. If you didn't hold up/down then you'd try to hit line drives. It was a nice hitting system, but MLB is more realistic tbh. For its time, MVP had the most realistic hitting engine.

I kind of use this same approach because when your hand-eye gets so good then it isn't hard to put the PCI on the ball if you get the timing right and know what is coming. I prefer MLB and I feel like MVP's hitting would handicap users (online). Offline, I do not care. It'd be a nice addition.

[El_MaYiMbE]

Re: Directional Hitting

You can already use directional hitting. It is all timing.....

This feature sounds like it will contradict the spray charts which I don't like.

I played the heck out of MVP and its hitting timing is pretty similar to the show. The only thing I will say about MVP is that it is was too linear of a hitting system. Meaning if you hit the green spot of the timing then you knew it was going to be hit and if you the yellow or red it would be weak. I don't like that, because certain hitters CAN PULL OUTSIDE PITCHES and they do frequently, especially power hitters.

I just hope they don't dumb it down again and again. They made it too easy to pull in 13 and 14 seems about right. Timing should be the number one factor in where the ball is hit combined with the spray chart of that hitter. I don't want to see some gimmick feature like guess pitch or make the current "swing influence" feature stronger to compensate for users' lack of skill and awareness.

I think MLB needs to focus more on tendencies and spray charts, along with bat speed. Not every hitter has the same bat speed so this should have a direct correlation with their spray chart. It should be the user's responsibility to learn each players' tendencies and to exploit them. If you are using a pull hitter you should get a slight bonus or more bias towards pulling it rather than going opposite field.

I get what you are saying, and I agree. For its time it was awesome but 10 yrs later is MLB better? 100 times yes.

So I am hoping they can give us what MVP gave us, but with the sophistication we have today when it comes to stat tracking and better understanding on how a SIM baseball game is played.

I feel that with all the hitting options in MLB The Show, there are still to many weak ground balls or pop ups, that are a result of the PCI not being centered just right, as opposed to being driven off of the players attributes and skills.

As you guys know SCEA does not take away features so those comfortable with Zone and all other forms will still be able to use that..but for me I am hoping they reintroduce the "MVP" style of hitting and add 10 yrs of knowledge to make it better.

[Blzer]

Re: Directional Hitting

MVP was simply inside, middle or away. You only used Up or Down to influence fly/ground balls. If you didn't hold up/down then you'd try to hit line drives. It was a nice hitting system, but MLB is more realistic tbh. For its time, MVP had the most realistic hitting engine.

Actually, High Heat had the most realistic hitting engine. ESPN MLB 2K4's True Aim system was second. MLB Inside Pitch was third. MVP may have had a nice physics engine going for them and had a good way of implementing the batter's eye thing, but the control was the very least realistic. Cursor hitting (I'll even throw in the PCI) is a video game style of play that is arcadey and not true to professional baseball, but can yield legitimate results.

Directional hitting does not in any way represent real baseball, in that true MLB hitters do not actually change their swing. They change their timing and they throw their knob to the ball, but the swing remains unchanged. Players don't "pull" the ball, so to speak. Pulling implies pulling off, means rolling over means little bat lag. A player who does that either opened up their front side, swung too early, or both, whether intentional or not. The same for hitting the other way.

I am for directional hitting being in the game because zone is an option, but unless it is described differently, I am going to be most stubborn here in believing anybody here, even a developer, when they claim that it is the most authentic to professional baseball. Nobody said that's what they were trying to do, but a lot of posts in this thread already seem to suggest that.

That being said, so long as the influence of fly balls and ground balls are either not in the game or are inverted in control (down for underneath and up for over the top of), I can see this being used without being abused, and I can still get the fun factor out of it. I cannot in all good faith though call that authentic simulation control.

I like this time of year though, because this is when I tend to post the most stuff about the sport. That said, I have extensively long posts on cursor versus zone hitting, and the big differences between the two. The Show has a hybrid with the PCI, one which I don't use (by that I mean I disable the visual). It's time to start searching for old posts.

[Bobhead]

Re: Directional Hitting

MLB hitters do not actually change their swing. They change their timing and they throw their knob to the ball, but the swing remains unchanged. Players don't "pull" the ball, so to speak. Pulling implies pulling off, means rolling over means little bat lag.

And in what way, exactly, do you feel this is different from what goes on with zone hitting? I'm curious.

[kehlis]

Re: Directional Hitting

And in what way, exactly, do you feel this is different from what goes on with zone hitting? I'm curious.

He was referring to MVP's directional hitting and why it wasn't realistic.

[nemesis04]

Re: Directional Hitting

Well, I am sure it will be optional. You like it use it, don't like it you can move on. Might need to wait and see what the Show's interpretation of this concept is before it is deemed unrealistic.

[kehlis]

Re: Directional Hitting

Well, I am sure it will be optional. You like it use it, don't like it you can move on. Might need to wait and see what the Show's interpretation of this concept is before it is deemed unrealistic.

I don't think anyone is inferring or assuming this iteration of directional hitting will be unrealistic.

Unless I missed it, the only people who have said unrealistic were referring to other games hitting systems.

Not much else to talk about in December

[Bobhead]

Re: Directional Hitting

And unrealistic is not inherently bad. Balance is what really matters. As long as directional hitting is properly crafted so that you maintain MLB-level batting averages, BABIP, line drive percentages, strikeout rates, etc... then there isnt really much to complain about.

[Blzer]

Re: Directional Hitting

He was referring to MVP's directional hitting and why it wasn't realistic.

Right. And let me clarify while digging through old posts (which I may or may not bring up), I noted how big of a game killer this was for me for MVP, MLB 2K7, and obviously future 2K games as well. Anyway, in those threads, a user mentioned how 2K went from True Aim (essentially zone hitting) to something much simpler and... here was the biggest term... more accessible.

This is what I think they're going for. There were fans of MVP, and there are also a lot of young kids, or old kids, or whatever that might like this system better. And trust me, a lot of people like this hitting engine and I totally understand it. They are broadening their audience; I will never take that away from them.

My only response to this thread was not even to anyone at SCEA, but rather to the posters who said this simulates a real baseball swing approach. SCEA actually had it right in the past, where you could pre-determine your swing influence (using the right analog stick) and then do zone hitting. They might still have this, but I never use it so I'm not sure.

Though I want to ask those who oppose that thought of hitting to tell me exactly what a hitter would try and do mid-pitch to "pull" an inside pitch for a home run that differentiates their swing from a hitter adjusting mid-pitch to hit an outside pitch over the opposite field fence. I'm legitimately curious as to what they think. Remember, this is with regard to swing mechanics only, not timing (and we no location).

Bobhead, you're absolutely right... it's all about the experience people have and the results that they get. Personally for me, I couldn't ever get good results with this kind of system. It wasn't that I wasn't okay with the "pull inside, go other way outside" in terms of gameplay, but these three things bogged it down:

1) I never struck out enough.

2) Hitting outside pitches was too rewarding and gave me too good of results most of the time (and hitters who normally shouldn't hit well that way, did so).

3) The biggest one of all, the fly ball/ground ball influence was not only far too strong, but also far too abusive for most games. I wouldn't ever dare to hit fly balls for players who I felt couldn't hit it out, and I felt stupid trying to always hit fly balls for players who I thought had a chance to hit it out.

For #3, there are two separate remedies for this, and only one of which I can accept as a user. These are either:

1 Stopping myself from ever aiming up or down (which is a physical impossibility since my stick naturally follows the pitch).

2) Inverting the direction so that aiming down is an "uppercut" and aiming up is a "chop," so to speak. That way it is kind of a form of bringing your hands to the ball to influence line drives, and it would also promote low pitches to be able to be home runs.

They'll speak more about this someday, and I'm sure it will make a lot of sense. I'll even give it a shot, because to be honest I want that available system to work not just for me, but everybody else, and I'd like to provide my input for it.

[darkknightrises]

Re: Directional Hitting

Well, I am sure it will be optional. You like it use it, don't like it you can move on. Might need to wait and see what the Show's interpretation of this concept is before it is deemed unrealistic.

I still have no idea what this really is so yeah.

[Blzer]

Re: Directional Hitting

Sitting here, I just realized that MLB The Show might be doing right-stick directional hitting, in which case I'm fully game for that if so. MLB 2K8 had this, and it was very intuitive control. Sadly, besides the pitcher/batter battle, beginning with the actual ball physics that game was broken six ways to Sunday. The biggest goodness about right-stick directional hitting is that they can still do zone hitting with it, the second reason is because it won't have the fly ball/ground ball hassle.

In fact, I have embarrassing YouTube videos that I made where I suggested exactly what they could do with that (the videos were meant for the 2K series at the time, but either works). I have since made some personal modifications to my decision-making from these videos (because this was an impulse recording rather than being well-thought out like it is now), but oh well. I want you to keep in mind that The Show has since implemented most of my ideas, without the directional stuff in place.

Spoiler

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/2O_CtHslJkk?list=UUEpne_j24ZKszIpglcsNktg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/9bBGDHoCyBc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The big question (in directional hitting or any interface for that matter) is can we still move which way we want to hit the ball (or the PCI for zone) AFTER we press x? If the answer is yes, then I'll be in baseball heaven. My problem with The Show's hitting on zone is that I often time the pitch right but I'm not able to move the PCI where it needs to go because it stops moving once you press the x button.

They've never quite allowed this, and it's been hard to deal with which is why I could never use PCI.

The games that allow you to still move your "cursor" after swinging since the PS2 era, to my knowledge, are:

- All Star Baseball 2002 (digital)
- Home Run King (digital)
- World Series Baseball 2K3 (digital)
- ESPN Major League Baseball (digital)
- MLB 2004 (digital)
- Pro Yakyuu Spirits 2 (digital/analog)
- ESPN Major League Baseball 2K5 (digital)
- Pro Yakyuu Spirits 3 (digital/analog)
- MLB Power Pros (digital/analog)
- Pro Yakyuu Spirits 4 (digital/analog)
- MLB Power Pros 2008 (digital/analog)
- Pro Yakyuu Spirits 5 (digital/analog)
- Pro Yakyuu Spirits 6 (digital/analog)
- Major League Baseball 2K9 (analog)
- Pro Yakyuu Spirits 2010 (digital/analog)
- Pro Yakyuu Spirits 2011 (digital/analog)
- Pro Yakyuu Spirits 2012 (digital/analog)
- Pro Yakyuu Spirits 2013 (digital/analog)
- Pro Yakyuu Spirits 2014 (digital/analog)

Games which did not allow it are:

- All Star Baseball 2003 (digital)
- All Star Baseball 2004 (digital)
- All Star Baseball 2005 (digital)
- MLB 08: The Show (analog)
- MLB 09: The Show (analog)
- MLB 10: The Show (analog)
- MLB 11: The Show (analog)
- MLB 12: The Show (analog)
- MLB 13: The Show (analog)
- MLB 14: The Show (analog)

Obviously there are different mechanics in play, though. For instance, one of them being what's written in parentheses... what kind of system it is they used as their cursor, either a "reset to center" (analog) or free-roaming (digital). I always liked digital for cursor hitting, and "analog" when it came to zone hitting. Power Pros and Pro Yakyuu has the option to do one or the other, except whichever one you choose also goes over to the pitching side as well, which is unfortunate because I like digital for hitting and analog for pitching lol.

One suggestion I made is that it simply "slows down" after you start your swing, because you've already began the vicinity of where you want to swing and then you can only make minor adjustments thereafter. I'm sure the game is hard-coded to determine where you'll hit it and everything else once you start that swing, though. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know how this game is coded at all really.

[HouseKeepinItReal]

Re: Directional Hitting

Directional hitting is probably like zone and pure analog together: The left stick will determine the vertical position of the pci and the right stick will be the horizontal position(inside/outisde). It can work with or without the stride. Push up on the right stick when you want to swing.

This is my best guess. I forget what MVP was like. If someone already said this I am sorry. I haven't been able to retain all the posts in this thread.

[Russell_SCEA]

Re: Directional Hitting

[@legendm0de]

Re: Directional Hitting

I just hope directional hitting they are trying to introduce has more to do with controlling a players swing mechanics more closely. I enjoy being able to control a players stride while batting. But my thinking is overly optimistic.

I'm only expecting an accessible gameplay feature for players to become more enabled to have directional hitting as apart of their repertoire. And I hope that isn't even true. But directional hitting is already in the game, they even have a training mode just for it in MLB 14, for you to get practice doing it.

To add: one thing about directional hitting and hitting in general in this series. The default sliders are really prone to in my opinion unrealistic contact. Therefore, when you generally hit a ball your swing does have less influence because the game sliders grant you generally line drives and up the middle smokers.

My belief has been that the contact slider, is the largest influence on this. If you test the contact sliders at 10 for example, you cant miss. You can pull a ball through the 3b/ss hole that was low and outside AND off the plate. The contact slider influences alot of things, which is why I null it all together. However, most players aren't going to even tinker a slider so they are kind of stuck with the system in place.

This does bring hope to me that, they are perhaps stengthening the contact physics perhaps or something along those lines. I usually play from a different perspective so I feel directional hitting doesnt even need to be addressed, but I can now understand why they do need to introduce whatever they might have planned for us. And I think it probably will do all of us good.