Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

[dazzelle]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Guess i am in the "small minority" of players as i rarely skip anything unless getting blown out.

So what button do i press to register my data that i didn't hit X to button through scenes ect.

[K_GUN]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Guess i am in the "small minority" of players as i rarely skip anything unless getting blown out.

So what button do i press to register my data that i didn't hit X to button through scenes ect.

uummmm.....they already know you don't hit X..you & the rest of the small crowd

[HypoLuxa13]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Spoiler

Hi ericjwm-

Good to hear from you. You have been on these forums about as long as I have, and while I don't generally like my team's hard work classified as a "joke"...I do value your opinion. I asked Millennium to re-open this thread, so that I could comment (Thanks Millennium!)

Regarding the personalized batting animations...As you know, years ago we did exactly what you are talking about, ie we had personalized walkup, take-pitch, miss, etc animations for some of the big name players, including Nomar. These sequences took a long time to gather reference footage, motion capture and a very long time to edit. Batting animations are, by far, the most difficult animations in the game.

The issue we ran into was this: We spent so much time working on the sequences for a few batters, that we did not have much time left over to do stances for all the other players in the game. We literally would get bogged down getting through these sequences that other areas of the game suffered. There were also times when a player would change his stance such that it would invalidate all the work done to match the rest of his sequence.

So we looked at the data that tells us how people play the game, and we discovered that the vast majority (and I mean the overwhelmingly vast, vast, vast majority) of players "X" through the walkups, and the between pitch animations to get to the next pitch. We also has lots of comments like, "Why isn't so and so players stance in the game?"

So now, as the Lead Animator, I am faced with this dilemma: Do I have my team work on 20 or so full sequences, that the majority (remember: vast, vast) will simply "X" through at the expense of other areas of the game, or do we limit the number of personalized animations in a batter's sequence. Much to your chagrin, I chose to limit the animations in the sequence to Stance, "practice swing," stride and HR. Those are the animations people tend to focus on when determining if a player in the game looks like their real-life counterpart. This also allows us to get through 5x as many stances each year.

Obviously how a players swings the bat can be quite personal as well, but that is not as simple as capturing 1 swing animation per batter. If it was, we would do it. Our swings are made up of 9 animations for the strike zone (inside low, inside mid, inside high, mid-low, mid-mid... you get the idea), so again 9 swings per player, not including way inside and way outside. So just use a generic swing, and capture a personalized hit and run!!! Great idea, except that we have to have hit and runs from all the different swings...you can't have a player swinging at a ball that is low and away, and using a generic hit and run, for obvious reasons.

Please note, a couple of years ago, we expanded the number of personalized animations in the pitcher's sequence...up from 7 animations to 12. New and re-done pitchers now have personalized step-ups, nods, pitch resets, etc...instead of them all using generic versions of these animations, as they did in the past.

Finally, I am not saying that we will never get back to doing full sequences for some players. I know you (and the small minority of players who do not X through post pitch animations) would love to see them. It will have to be handled on a case by case basis, for now. What I will commit to is increasing the variety of take-pitch, miss, foul ball, strike-out, and walkup animations for next year. As with everything in game development, it boils down to time, resources and priority.

Thanks for the feedback and thanks for reading-

Chris

ps. I have made note of the 2 handed issue people are seeing with Justin Upton, and I will look into it.

Epic response is epic...

[Dolenz]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

As a general rule gamers:

1. Underestimate how much time and effort it takes to implement a feature correctly.

2. Think developers have unlimited time and resources.

3. Think that the features they care about the most should always take precedence.

4. Think the features that are not important to them should be cut altogether.

5. Blame the developers for not customizing the game to players like them, no matter how small of a minority those gamers may be.

[jaysfan17]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Hi ericjwm-

Good to hear from you. You have been on these forums about as long as I have, and while I don't generally like my team's hard work classified as a "joke"...I do value your opinion. I asked Millennium to re-open this thread, so that I could comment (Thanks Millennium!)

Regarding the personalized batting animations...As you know, years ago we did exactly what you are talking about, ie we had personalized walkup, take-pitch, miss, etc animations for some of the big name players, including Nomar. These sequences took a long time to gather reference footage, motion capture and a very long time to edit. Batting animations are, by far, the most difficult animations in the game.

The issue we ran into was this: We spent so much time working on the sequences for a few batters, that we did not have much time left over to do stances for all the other players in the game. We literally would get bogged down getting through these sequences that other areas of the game suffered. There were also times when a player would change his stance such that it would invalidate all the work done to match the rest of his sequence.

So we looked at the data that tells us how people play the game, and we discovered that the vast majority (and I mean the overwhelmingly vast, vast, vast majority) of players "X" through the walkups, and the between pitch animations to get to the next pitch. We also has lots of comments like, "Why isn't so and so players stance in the game?"

So now, as the Lead Animator, I am faced with this dilemma: Do I have my team work on 20 or so full sequences, that the majority (remember: vast, vast) will simply "X" through at the expense of other areas of the game, or do we limit the number of personalized animations in a batter's sequence. Much to your chagrin, I chose to limit the animations in the sequence to Stance, "practice swing," stride and HR. Those are the animations people tend to focus on when determining if a player in the game looks like their real-life counterpart. This also allows us to get through 5x as many stances each year.

Obviously how a players swings the bat can be quite personal as well, but that is not as simple as capturing 1 swing animation per batter. If it was, we would do it. Our swings are made up of 9 animations for the strike zone (inside low, inside mid, inside high, mid-low, mid-mid... you get the idea), so again 9 swings per player, not including way inside and way outside. So just use a generic swing, and capture a personalized hit and run!!! Great idea, except that we have to have hit and runs from all the different swings...you can't have a player swinging at a ball that is low and away, and using a generic hit and run, for obvious reasons.

Please note, a couple of years ago, we expanded the number of personalized animations in the pitcher's sequence...up from 7 animations to 12. New and re-done pitchers now have personalized step-ups, nods, pitch resets, etc...instead of them all using generic versions of these animations, as they did in the past.

Finally, I am not saying that we will never get back to doing full sequences for some players. I know you (and the small minority of players who do not X through post pitch animations) would love to see them. It will have to be handled on a case by case basis, for now. What I will commit to is increasing the variety of take-pitch, miss, foul ball, strike-out, and walkup animations for next year. As with everything in game development, it boils down to time, resources and priority.

Thanks for the feedback and thanks for reading-

Chris

ps. I have made note of the 2 handed issue people are seeing with Justin Upton, and I will look into it.

You just got told son!!!!!

[Woodweaver]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Now that it's all cleared up, we can get back to "polishing the ol' joke turd"!

[HustlinOwl]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Hi ericjwm-

Good to hear from you. You have been on these forums about as long as I have, and while I don't generally like my team's hard work classified as a "joke"...I do value your opinion. I asked Millennium to re-open this thread, so that I could comment (Thanks Millennium!)

Regarding the personalized batting animations...As you know, years ago we did exactly what you are talking about, ie we had personalized walkup, take-pitch, miss, etc animations for some of the big name players, including Nomar. These sequences took a long time to gather reference footage, motion capture and a very long time to edit. Batting animations are, by far, the most difficult animations in the game.

The issue we ran into was this: We spent so much time working on the sequences for a few batters, that we did not have much time left over to do stances for all the other players in the game. We literally would get bogged down getting through these sequences that other areas of the game suffered. There were also times when a player would change his stance such that it would invalidate all the work done to match the rest of his sequence.

So we looked at the data that tells us how people play the game, and we discovered that the vast majority (and I mean the overwhelmingly vast, vast, vast majority) of players "X" through the walkups, and the between pitch animations to get to the next pitch. We also has lots of comments like, "Why isn't so and so players stance in the game?"

So now, as the Lead Animator, I am faced with this dilemma: Do I have my team work on 20 or so full sequences, that the majority (remember: vast, vast) will simply "X" through at the expense of other areas of the game, or do we limit the number of personalized animations in a batter's sequence. Much to your chagrin, I chose to limit the animations in the sequence to Stance, "practice swing," stride and HR. Those are the animations people tend to focus on when determining if a player in the game looks like their real-life counterpart. This also allows us to get through 5x as many stances each year.

Obviously how a players swings the bat can be quite personal as well, but that is not as simple as capturing 1 swing animation per batter. If it was, we would do it. Our swings are made up of 9 animations for the strike zone (inside low, inside mid, inside high, mid-low, mid-mid... you get the idea), so again 9 swings per player, not including way inside and way outside. So just use a generic swing, and capture a personalized hit and run!!! Great idea, except that we have to have hit and runs from all the different swings...you can't have a player swinging at a ball that is low and away, and using a generic hit and run, for obvious reasons.

Please note, a couple of years ago, we expanded the number of personalized animations in the pitcher's sequence...up from 7 animations to 12. New and re-done pitchers now have personalized step-ups, nods, pitch resets, etc...instead of them all using generic versions of these animations, as they did in the past.

Finally, I am not saying that we will never get back to doing full sequences for some players. I know you (and the small minority of players who do not X through post pitch animations) would love to see them. It will have to be handled on a case by case basis, for now. What I will commit to is increasing the variety of take-pitch, miss, foul ball, strike-out, and walkup animations for next year. As with everything in game development, it boils down to time, resources and priority.

Thanks for the feedback and thanks for reading-

Chris

ps. I have made note of the 2 handed issue people are seeing with Justin Upton, and I will look into it.

[eaw913]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

I think more varied body types would go a long ways towards making this game more realistic. Right now you have what? Three different body types?

In real life you see guys with broader shoulders than others, bigger/stronger legs, skinnier waists, longer limbs, etc. But in this game all players essentially look the same, just with different gear and different faces (faces which you only see those close ups which most people "x" through).

I don't know, seems like it's a small detail that would go a long ways, to make guys with unique body types actually look like their real life counterpart.

I really like this. I think this would make a gigantic difference in the game as a whole. And honestly, I think this is definitely something they are working towards. Likely next couple years we will see this. I can imagine it will take quite a bit of time, especially given the foundation they have set with the current models. We'll see.

[burjeffton]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Wow, that response from Chris_SCEA was great. I'm still amazed at the time and effort the San Diego guys put into listening to their fans. Bravo!

Agree on the follow-thru swings. Would love to see more variation there. But all-in-all, things have progressed very nicely, and the streams have showcased it well.

[BlackBetty15]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Now that it's all cleared up, we can get back to "polishing the ol' joke turd"!

I absolutely love that Chris did that. Not for "in your face" purposes but for my own personal knowledge of expectations VS production efficiency from a consumer standpoint. My only question would be this:


Could there be any more excitement regarding extra base hits in the game? As well as a web gem excitement cutscene or something. IE When the rangers get an XBH they would do the claw. One of my biggest gripes or kind of a down moment playing the Show was if I made a sweet play or a XBH I would get really excited and all that and the player I did it with acts all "meh". Its totally a personal preference but I would like to see a bit more emotion and excited reactions when a player makes a play.


*This may have been done for this year, I have no idea. I haven't been able to follow the developer threads so if its in sweet.

[LastActionHero]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Did ericjwm himself react after Kirby's response at all?

[jaysfan17]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Did ericjwm himself react after Kirby's response at all?

Nope. He needs to though, I want to see a virtual throw down.
OR

[cusefan74]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Maybe he just figures it's better to keep his mouth shut.

[Chris_SCEA_Sports]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Just a quick note (I am on vacation, after all!), but my post was not meant as an attack on ericjwm at all. I hope it did not come off like that. I certainly respect ericjwm's opinion. He has been passionate about the personalized animations in the game for a long time! I was just trying to point out the decisions we have to make every day when making the game.

I am a "gamer" as well, and I see all kinds of things in games where I think "Why can't they just...or why don't they just...." For instance, I really like Far Cry 4...but why the heck isn't there a "Toggle off all icons" on the map, so I can just toggle on what I am looking for..Drives me nuts! And in Destiny...why can't I....oh, nevermind.

Anyway, we, as developers want EVERYTHING in the game, and it would be great if there was an unlimited amount of time and resources...unfortunately there is not.

I will be back later to address the skeleton questions in the thread, but I'd rather go finish The Order.

[ryanmc564]

Re: Not impressed with the Personalized animations....

Just a quick note (I am on vacation, after all!), but my post was not meant as an attack on ericjwm at all. I hope it did not come off like that. I certainly respect ericjwm's opinion. He has been passionate about the personalized animations in the game for a long time! I was just trying to point out the decisions we have to make every day when making the game.

I am a "gamer" as well, and I see all kinds of things in games where I think "Why can't they just...or why don't they just...." For instance, I really like Far Cry 4...but why the heck isn't there a "Toggle off all icons" on the map, so I can just toggle on what I am looking for..Drives me nuts! And in Destiny...why can't I....oh, nevermind.

Anyway, we, as developers want EVERYTHING in the game, and it would be great if there was an unlimited amount of time and resources...unfortunately there is not.

I will be back later to address the skeleton questions in the thread, but I'd rather go finish The Order.

I'm sure many on here would love for you to touch base on the skeletons for player models, since to me it seem to be one of the biggest gripes I see around here. Thanks for the inside look on how you and your team go about developing animations in the game, will be looking forward to any other insight you provide. Enjoy "The Order" while you are on your vacation.