A problem with year to year saves

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  • Knight165
    *ll St*r
    • Feb 2003
    • 24964

    #226
    Re: A problem with year to year saves

    The Show averaged 24 last year in 40 sim seasons I tested.(including post deadline waiver deals)

    M.K.
    Knight165
    All gave some. Some gave all. 343

    Comment

    • Heroesandvillains
      MVP
      • May 2009
      • 5974

      #227
      Re: A problem with year to year saves

      Originally posted by Knight165
      The Show averaged 24 last year in 40 sim seasons I tested.(including post deadline waiver deals)

      M.K.
      Knight165
      And people complained that was too many???

      Comment

      • dubplate
        MVP
        • Dec 2002
        • 3783

        #228
        Re: A problem with year to year saves

        My past complaints weren't with the quantity, but quality of the trades, although the logic was supposedly tweaked this year so I am looking forward to not having to reject as many.

        Comment

        • Bobhead
          Pro
          • Mar 2011
          • 4926

          #229
          Re: A problem with year to year saves

          Originally posted by Knight165
          The Show averaged 24 last year in 40 sim seasons I tested.(including post deadline waiver deals)

          M.K.
          Knight165
          Originally posted by Knight165
          Since there are no cash considerations....or PTBNL.....options in the Show....if they involved a MLB player on the other end I'll count it.

          If I said there were 25? Did you see way more than that?
          How about 30?....40?
          Keep going?
          There were 50 trades last year involving MLB level players from April to August.



          M.K.
          Knight165
          Yes but you're still counting trades by number. I questioned not the number of trades, but the number of people traded... the level of movement. I'll explain.

          Look back at that list you posted and ignore the number of trades... count the actual number of MLB players involved. Most of the real-life trades in your link are MLB players in exchange for cash, or minor leaguers. I dont have an encyclopedia in my head but just skimming that list quickly, the first 13 or so trades all look like they involve only 1 MLB player. The other pieces are minor leaguers and cash considerations, etc... so 15 trades, 15 MLB players moved... approximately.

          Compare that to The Show, where most of those trades you see often involve 2, 3, even 4 MLB-level players, in one trade, thus raising the total aggregate of MLB-movement, even though the quantity of trades is not that high. And a high number of those trades seems to pull players right out of the starting lineup. These are everyday players getting traded, which makes the trades all the more noticeable and... questionable, for lack of a better word.

          It's rare that MLB players are traded, relative to the total number of players (and sets of cash, draft picks or w/e else can be traded) moved.

          Also how are you getting your counts in The Show? I'm trying to count trades but my log only goes back like 2 months.
          Last edited by Bobhead; 04-02-2015, 06:45 PM.

          Comment

          • Heroesandvillains
            MVP
            • May 2009
            • 5974

            #230
            Re: A problem with year to year saves

            Originally posted by Bobhead
            Yes but you're still counting trades by number. I questioned not the number of trades, but the number of people traded... the level of movement. I'll explain.

            Look back at that list you posted and ignore the number of trades... count the actual number of MLB players involved. Most of the real-life trades in your link are MLB players in exchange for cash, or minor leaguers. I dont have an encyclopedia in my head but just skimming that list quickly, the first 13 or so trades all look like they involve only 1 MLB player. The other pieces are minor leaguers and cash considerations, etc... so 15 trades, 15 MLB players moved... approximately.

            Compare that to The Show, where most of those trades you see often involve 2, 3, even 4 MLB-level players, in one trade, thus raising the total aggregate of MLB-movement, even though the quantity of trades is not that high. And a high number of those trades seems to pull players right out of the starting lineup. These are everyday players getting traded, which makes the trades all the more noticeable and... questionable, for lack of a better word.

            It's rare that MLB players are traded, relative to the total number of players (and sets of cash, draft picks or w/e else can be traded) moved.

            Also how are you getting your counts in The Show? I'm trying to count trades but my log only goes back like 2 months.
            Knowing Knight, he tracks the data. Remember, at Community Day, him and tbarnes spend most of their time looking at precisely this stuff.

            Regarding your other points, I definitely agree with your assessment on the abundance of MLB level players getting traded in past iterations of the game. I'd love to see more MiLB player for MiLB player trades.

            And by looking at what tbarnes and Knight already posted regarding the frequency of trades in real life, we clearly need more in 15 than we're currently seeing.

            I think even at 24 on average, based on 14, people would find it more palatable in 15 mainly because they upped the amount of one-for-ones.

            Comment

            • tabarnes19_SDS
              Game Designer
              • Feb 2003
              • 3084

              #231
              Re: A problem with year to year saves

              I'm curious are you guys testing with Franchises that are year to year for trades?

              Using the latest roster last two tests. (Very limited testing)

              test 1
              April 10 trades, May 3 trades, June 6 Trades, July 10 trades (3 at deadline), aug-Sept 0
              total trades:29

              test 2
              April 3 trades, May 3 trades, June 6 trades, July 9 trades (1 deadline), aug 1 trade, sept 0
              Total trades:22

              A 2017 sim had 25 trades.

              My biggest beef is there are essentially no August and September trades anymore. Not enough players are being put on trade waivers. That and pitcher progression. A pitchers seem to be gaining 6-11 Overall each year. Way TOO fast.

              Curious if it is a y2Y issue?
              Last edited by tabarnes19_SDS; 04-02-2015, 07:16 PM.

              Comment

              • BrianM207
                MVP
                • Mar 2012
                • 1184

                #232
                Re: A problem with year to year saves

                A new feature this year when searching for a trade partner is narrowing down what your looking for. You can choose either "MLB Ready", "Prospects", or "All". That could help in balancing things out
                Let's Go Mets!!!

                Comment

                • Heroesandvillains
                  MVP
                  • May 2009
                  • 5974

                  #233
                  Re: A problem with year to year saves

                  Originally posted by tabarnes19
                  I'm curious are you guys testing with Franchises that are year to year for trades?

                  Using the latest roster last two tests. (Very limited testing)

                  test 1
                  April 10 trades, May 3 trades, June 6 Trades, July 10 trades (3 at deadline), aug-Sept 0
                  total trades:29

                  test 2
                  April 3 trades, May 3 trades, June 6 trades, July 9 trades (1 deadline), aug 1 trade, sept 0
                  Total trades:22

                  A 2017 sim had 25 trades.

                  My biggest beef is there are essentially no August and September trades anymore. Not enough players are being put on trade waivers. That and pitcher progression. A pitchers seem to be gaining 6-11 Overall each year. Way TOO fast.

                  Curious if it is a y2Y issue?
                  Yes.

                  This is why I was testing it for the guy that said he only saw one trade in his Y2Y; to see if Y2Y trading frequency was bugged.

                  In my Y2Y save file, which starts 16 games into the season (mid April), I had 9 total trades occur between then and the trade deadline.

                  I can run a few more if you'd like.

                  Comment

                  • Knight165
                    *ll St*r
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 24964

                    #234
                    Re: A problem with year to year saves

                    Originally posted by Bobhead
                    Yes but you're still counting trades by number. I questioned not the number of trades, but the number of people traded... the level of movement. I'll explain.

                    Look back at that list you posted and ignore the number of trades... count the actual number of MLB players involved. Most of the real-life trades in your link are MLB players in exchange for cash, or minor leaguers. I dont have an encyclopedia in my head but just skimming that list quickly, the first 13 or so trades all look like they involve only 1 MLB player. The other pieces are minor leaguers and cash considerations, etc... so 15 trades, 15 MLB players moved... approximately.

                    Compare that to The Show, where most of those trades you see often involve 2, 3, even 4 MLB-level players, in one trade, thus raising the total aggregate of MLB-movement, even though the quantity of trades is not that high. And a high number of those trades seems to pull players right out of the starting lineup. These are everyday players getting traded, which makes the trades all the more noticeable and... questionable, for lack of a better word.

                    It's rare that MLB players are traded, relative to the total number of players (and sets of cash, draft picks or w/e else can be traded) moved.

                    Also how are you getting your counts in The Show? I'm trying to count trades but my log only goes back like 2 months.
                    We are talking # of trades for each.
                    But I'd still say in the Show...that most of the trades involving 3 or 4 players are of the 1/2 MLB level.....3/2 minor league prospect variety.

                    They did say that this year they are focusing more on the 1 for 1 trades

                    My count is that I count the trades as they happen and note the trade.
                    I don't use the log in that respect.
                    I use 30 team control with trading set to AUTO for all teams.

                    Originally posted by tabarnes19
                    I'm curious are you guys testing with Franchises that are year to year for trades?

                    Using the latest roster last two tests. (Very limited testing)

                    test 1
                    April 10 trades, May 3 trades, June 6 Trades, July 10 trades (3 at deadline), aug-Sept 0
                    total trades:29

                    test 2
                    April 3 trades, May 3 trades, June 6 trades, July 9 trades (1 deadline), aug 1 trade, sept 0
                    Total trades:22

                    A 2017 sim had 25 trades.

                    My biggest beef is there are essentially no August and September trades anymore. Not enough players are being put on trade waivers. That and pitcher progression. A pitchers seem to be gaining 6-11 Overall each year. Way TOO fast.

                    Curious if it is a y2Y issue?

                    I think(at least I am) we are talking on only Y2Y saves here.
                    I like that you're saying that you are seeing the same totals as previous years in your NEW franchise starts.
                    BUT...yes...the fact I'm seeing no trades in August or September bothers me.


                    M.K.
                    Knight165
                    All gave some. Some gave all. 343

                    Comment

                    • tabarnes19_SDS
                      Game Designer
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 3084

                      #235
                      Re: A problem with year to year saves

                      Originally posted by Heroesandvillains
                      Yes.

                      This is why I was testing it for the guy that said he only saw one trade in his Y2Y; to see if Y2Y trading frequency was bugged.

                      In my Y2Y save file, which starts 16 games into the season (mid April), I had 9 total trades occur between then and the trade deadline.

                      I can run a few more if you'd like.
                      I would start a franchise on 14 fresh then y2y and see how many trades you have. Then a new 15 franchise and test. Maybe it is y2y and trade frequency or the the parameters of the league when the franchise was ported over. Teams may have all been over budget etc.

                      Biggest change to me with trade frequency this year seems to be August and September. The regular trade deadline trades seem about average. There is also offseason trades again.

                      If they patch in more trades in August I'll be thrilled with the trading engine and quality in 15.

                      Comment

                      • torpidbeaver
                        Pro
                        • Mar 2010
                        • 636

                        #236
                        Re: A problem with year to year saves

                        Originally posted by tabarnes19
                        I'm curious are you guys testing with Franchises that are year to year for trades?

                        Using the latest roster last two tests. (Very limited testing)

                        test 1
                        April 10 trades, May 3 trades, June 6 Trades, July 10 trades (3 at deadline), aug-Sept 0
                        total trades:29

                        test 2
                        April 3 trades, May 3 trades, June 6 trades, July 9 trades (1 deadline), aug 1 trade, sept 0
                        Total trades:22

                        A 2017 sim had 25 trades.

                        My biggest beef is there are essentially no August and September trades anymore. Not enough players are being put on trade waivers. That and pitcher progression. A pitchers seem to be gaining 6-11 Overall each year. Way TOO fast.

                        Curious if it is a y2Y issue?
                        Yeah, my (brief) tests have been YtY already in progress.

                        Comment

                        • Heroesandvillains
                          MVP
                          • May 2009
                          • 5974

                          #237
                          Re: A problem with year to year saves

                          I just simmed 3 seasons from a Y2Y save, this one from the beginning of the regular season.

                          The total trades:

                          14
                          11
                          14

                          There were zero trades in all three seasons in August and September.

                          Comment

                          • tabarnes19_SDS
                            Game Designer
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 3084

                            #238
                            Re: A problem with year to year saves

                            Originally posted by Heroesandvillains
                            I just simmed 3 seasons from a Y2Y save, this one from the beginning of the regular season.

                            The total trades:

                            14
                            11
                            14

                            There were zero trades in all three seasons in August and September.
                            Now try a fresh 15 franchise. It must be the y2y transfer affecting trades. Although even fresh franchises do not have waiver trades. At least never more than 1.

                            Comment

                            • Knight165
                              *ll St*r
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 24964

                              #239
                              Re: A problem with year to year saves

                              Originally posted by tabarnes19
                              Now try a fresh 15 franchise. It must be the y2y transfer affecting trades.
                              I saw it in a new '15 franchise start....as it was last year......(except for the waiver deals)

                              I want to start a new franchise in 14....move it to 15 and see what happens.

                              M.K.
                              Knight165
                              All gave some. Some gave all. 343

                              Comment

                              • Heroesandvillains
                                MVP
                                • May 2009
                                • 5974

                                #240
                                Re: A problem with year to year saves

                                And now I just simmed two completely fresh seasons in MLB 15; meaning these were not Y2Y. The trades:

                                12
                                9

                                Let me just cross check a few things with you guys, because clearly these numbers are lower than what you're seeing:

                                I'm using 30 team control, injuries on, everything set to Auto.

                                I'm counting the number of on-screen messages informing me of trades. Keep in mind, I've gone into the Completed Transactions screen several times to double check that the notifications were showing me every trade. In every instance, they did.

                                The trades portion of the Completed Transactions section only saves a month of two's worth of data before erasing (this is really odd! Am I missing something? Didn't it used to keep a continuing log throughout the entire year???).

                                Am I possibly doing anything on my end that is either wrong or influencing such a small amount of trading or are my numbers showing a trend?

                                Comment

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