Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

[sink4ever]

Re: Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

I've been doing alot of thinking on progression/regression and performance. I still believe that performance has/and never will impact player growth. I believe everyone agrees that training does impact it to a degree.

What I would like to see is a totally revamped training and scouting setup. Teams could hire different training "companies." Each training company has a risk/reward to it.
Trainers A are maintenance specialists. They specialize in prolonging a players career. Their training style reduces the regression of older players. On the flip side younger prospects do not progress as quickly due to the training style.

Trainers B. are neutral. They develop and maintain players. Progression of prospects is moderate and regression is moderate.

Trainers C are Prospect centered. Their job is develop young prospects. There is more growth from younger players and a greater risk of rapid regression with older players.

Of course there would be varying qualities of each trainer and the they would have attribute ratings as well. The better they are the more expensive. They can even progress. (think nba2k with scouts having a potential rating)

As far as scouting you would have major league scouts. There job would be to "scout" major league rosters. They would give a scouts take of what they player rating is, with accuracy based on the ability of the scout, this could even allow for error so that even the best scouts are not 100% accurate. By doing this teams would value players differently. One team that feels another player on a different team is a 80 may trade a couple good prospects when the team that owns that player only values him as a 74.

To work with the crowd that wants to see performance impact. I think the place where performance actually has an impact is in confidence, which could be translated through progression/regression in the clutch rating. High performance can increase the clutch.

With these changes the only way to see the actual ratings and potential would be through the player edit screen.

I would love to move away from hiring actual scouts and simply have a "scouting" and "training" budget. The more money spent, the better the results (with diminishing marginal returns of course). The idea of honing in on actual ratings by using scouts is great. Ideally, there would be four subcategories of scouting - MLB scouting (like you mentioned), talent scouting (evaluating other teams minor leaguers), amateur scouting (Rule 4 draftees from US high schools and colleges), and international scouting.

Also, while I agree that actual progression should not be impacted by production, I would like to see a player's "scouted" rating change based on performance. Then you have to try to figure out if they were underrated and are playing to their potential or if they're now overrated based on a hot streak.

[bgtyuh]

Re: Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

So much for the fluff fact sheet they posted. More broken features...makes you wonder how much BS filler is in there.

[Knight165]

Re: Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

So much for the fluff fact sheet they posted. More broken features...makes you wonder how much BS filler is in there.

Not as much as right here

M.K.
Knight165

[xingsongx]

Re: Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

So much for the fluff fact sheet they posted. More broken features...makes you wonder how much BS filler is in there.

[tessl]

Re: Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

This is a major issue. Position players are not the problem. They come into the league with reasonable attributes and progress and regress rather normally. However, after playing and simming until 2025 I can tell you that major league pitchers have become too dominant. More than a handful of teams have rotations resembling the Atlanta Braves of the early 90's (Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine). This should be a rarity, not a norm! Even the worst teams have an average attribute overall for SP's of 85. ERA's have plummetted and strikeouts have increased to unbelievable levels. I grew up watching the Big Unit and none since has gotten 300 k's in a season. Just last night in season 2025 6 pitchers got to 300! Very unrealistic. Yes, era's have been decreasing in real life but not like this. The freaking batting champion batted .298!

The performance progression is also to blame. If a B potential player plays well in the minors, he's almost guaranteed to become an A potential. After that, he's almost sure to progress to a 90 overall or higher.

If they don't patch this, everyone is going to have to edit 100+ players in their franchise modes. Every year. That would be lame.

By the way, this is with knights osfm rosters. No better than wih stock rosters.

I don't sim, I play all my games but if progression is broken in this way I suspect the culprit is not the new progression dynamic but the new sim engine. The sim engine was changed - we know that because simming has been significantly sped up. Why it was sped up I don't know but it was and in doing to it is possible/likely gameplay and stats were altered.

[tabarnes19_SDS]

Re: Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

Sim speed has nothing to do with it.

[tessl]

Re: Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

Sim speed has nothing to do with it.

Does the sim engine have anything to do with it?

[tabarnes19_SDS]

Re: Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

From my understanding of how a sim system works. .no.

Sims work off attributes. That's why if you change attributes you get different results. There is also a variability factor in it so players don't always perform the exact same way.

[DarthRambo]

Re: Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

What if....you send guys up and down through the minors based on performance for all 30 teams? I just did this after April in my franchise. I used the notifications that tell you who struggled and who did great in the minors the month that just passed. It was tedious and took some work, however. BUT! When I finished and finally played a game in May I felt like I was playing a new season almost lol.

My thinking is...if you move that SP who is doninating in AA, and is average in AAA his progression will be slowed. Or we could just edit all pitchers drafted by lowering everyone's potential by 10-20 points.

Would have to test by choosing a draft class to edit then follow them as you sim through years to see how well they do.

[aukevin]

Re: Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

The regression of older players is so frustrating. I have A. J. Pierzynski, Jason Grilli, and Tim Hudson all on my MLB team and although they have been playing pretty good, I can't stop their regression. I'm just about to June and these guys have each gone down at least a couple points. I'm trying to train them in important areas to slow it, but it is useless. Hudson is leading the league in ERA, yet has dropped two points. I get old age and all, but this is pretty ridiculous for a performance-based system. The way its going, Grilli won't be saving games for me at the end of the year either as his stats drop.

[sljivo]

Re: Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

The regression of older players is so frustrating. I have A. J. Pierzynski, Jason Grilli, and Tim Hudson all on my MLB team and although they have been playing pretty good, I can't stop their regression. I'm just about to June and these guys have each gone down at least a couple points. I'm trying to train them in important areas to slow it, but it is useless. Hudson is leading the league in ERA, yet has dropped two points. I get old age and all, but this is pretty ridiculous for a performance-based system. The way its going, Grilli won't be saving games for me at the end of the year either as his stats drop.

In 2 months, Tim Hudson turns 40 years old! Of course he is goin to regress. No one stops father time, no matter how well they play. Even if he put up those numbers in real life for an entire season, no person would expect him to duplicate those stats at 41. Falling off a cliff does happen to some players while slow regression happens to others.

At age 35, legend Jeff Bagwell had 39 jacks and over 100 ribbies. 2 years later he played only 65 games and batted 65 points below his career average. Onviously an example of falling off a cliff.

Yes, this is only anecdotal, but this stuff happens in real life. Be grateful he's leading the league in era and still putting up quality starts.

There is no fountain of youth. I'm much more in agreement in this years mid to late 30's regression than The Show from i think 2 years ago where my franchise players would top out at 27 yrs old and slowly decline starting at 29. This year, its actualy possible for players to put up realistic stats for heir careers ( as lon as hou edit incoming drafted pitchers).

In my 10 yr cubs franchise, Miguel Cabrera consistenly put up 30 hr per season and retired at 40 with a rating of 83 and about 600 hr. I'd say i'm ok with that.

Just trade Hudson, he aint gettin any younger, bro.

[Potatoes002]

Re: Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

It frustrates me that with the stock roster there is still some high rated guys in their late 30's, but with how drastic the regression system is for old players, this isn't possible in future seasons. I wish it was toned down with a patch, and regression could be slowed with high performance on the field. Having RA Dickey fall off a cliff a month into the season makes no sense to me.

[WayOfMarkus]

Re: Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

Has anyone noticed Beltre's regression? He's rated a 93 overall which is the best 3rd basemen in the game. I have him in one of my fantasy draft franchises, and he's already regressing. Some stats are dropping, but he's hitting around .309 with around 9 homeruns and 20 RBI's in 2 months... I don't get it.... As if on next years game he won't be rated as one of the best 3B's again.. I'm at a loss for words.

[WayOfMarkus]

Re: Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

It frustrates me that with the stock roster there is still some high rated guys in their late 30's, but with how drastic the regression system is for old players, this isn't possible in future seasons. I wish it was toned down with a patch, and regression could be slowed with high performance on the field. Having RA Dickey fall off a cliff a month into the season makes no sense to me.

Lol, If the computer has Dickey, IDC if he regresses aha, I hate hitting against his stupid knuckleball, especially on HOF. It's incredibly annoying to hit.

[Knight165]

Re: Performance-Based Player Progression (Official Thread)

Again....I think some of you have mistaken ideas about performance based progression.
It's merely a small factor in the overall scheme of progression and regression.

Potential and age are still by far the overriding factors in progression.
Performance will aid in growth for a younger player if he say leads the league in homers or BA.....his power/contact will benefit slightly more than his "regular" progression.
Age(OLD) is still the biggest factor in ANY movement on the ratings scale. Nothing(performance or potential) will stop it....but it(both) will slow it somewhat.

....and if your player is performing at a high level....who cares what his ratings are?

I've still got Eric Young Jr. on the Mets in my carry over franchise. He is hitting .479 in mid May with his contact ratings in the 50's. WTF do I care what his contact says if he's raking for me?
Ride that horse until he drops dead and move on.

M.K.
Knight165