Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

[@legendm0de]

Re: Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

I play on All Star, zone pci off button hitting. I almost always only use x to hit as i tuned tje sliders for more power since i personally prefer a one button type of batting.

What i notice though is far too many pitchers have devastating changeups. I feel that its a bit unrealistic. Only elite pitchers really have great changeups like this. Am i alone in this? Any tips? Any solution? Id up pitch speed but i dont think that sould help without also just speeding up fastballs too much as well.

It takes a slider adjustment to allow pitchers with average or poor breaking to separate from pitchers who specialize in breaking balls. If you care for more information you can pm me. This is one glaring issue that you have in the default versions of the game.

I changed my speed slider to 8 in order to compensate for this.

Yes the speed differential is still the same, but it makes it easier to adjust to a change up, and fastball is still fast and hard to hit when its up, but adjustable when you are looking for it.

And I recently found from 8 when you graduate on to ten the experience is at it's optimum level based on the timing rhythm you gain from playing through the 8 slider. 10 will perfect the timing after the experience you gain 8.

I've been playing on Legend difficulty and these 15-20 MPH difference changeups are bad enough, but when the pitcher also has a Bugs Bunny curveball it makes it almost impossible.

Career AAA Pitchers you never heard of painting highlight worthy back door curveballs on you for first pitch strikes. Yep.

[therewillbechud]

Re: Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

I think you are missing the point. It has nothing to do with people "stepping up their game" or w/e. I've been ranked in the top 10 past 4 years w/ a 300+ avg and won the past 2 COTW's, and I can say for a fact that they just flat out messed up on a lot of the pitchers' changeups in this game. It has nothing to do with recognizing it or not. The fact is that pitchers like Tanaka, who doesn't even throw a changeup IRL or any pitch around 72-75 mph for that matter, have wrong pitch edits on the SCEA roster. Look here: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...on=P#pitchtype
His curveball should be around 72...not a changeup...

It's not a huge problem for offline, but for online and DD it is ridiculous. People do not even mix up their pitches anymore. it is just low changeups/high fastballs the entire game. Do I still win? Yes I am 46-1 for online rated games, but it is not realistic at all.

It is not just Tanaka either that has wrong pitch edits. Pitchers like Eddie Butler, whose average changeup velo was 86 last year, is 75-77 in the game. They have a lot of pitchers' pitch edits just flat out wrong. It doesn't need patched, but they just need to fix the darn rosters and pitch velocities.

This was a problem in MLB 12 with Diamond Dynasty where they had to patch the attributes. You had guys throwing 101 mph fastballs with 69 mph changeups. That was for the fictional players though and this won't even require a patch. It is a simple fix really and I don't understand why it hasn't been fixed yet via roster update.



We all know that on default pitch slider, the speed in the game is not a true 1:1 ratio. 99 mph fastball on 5 pitch speed is really around 88-89. The thing is though that the game does a good job with consistency with the pitch speeds. Meaning every single pitch will be 10-12 mph slower than what the game actually says. So if you are on 5 pitch speed you can expect a 99 fastball to be really coming in at 89 mph and a 89 mph change is really 79. Again, the issue is not the recognition of the changeup itself, but the real issue is that the pitch edits are just not accurate.

It'd be like if they gave Wainwright a 69 mph changeup for no reason and then me telling you to step up your game because you complain it is not realistic.

lol "It's not a problem for me, I'm still an awesome player who has no issues smashing every changeup, I just can't be bothered so change it." This is kind of a reoccuring theme here. I don't see why people feel the need to try to validate themselves by posting like that, it just makes one look insecure if anything.

You have to adjust to the game every year, anyone who plays online for a franchise type game title should understand that. Try to get it changed for next year, or edit the player rating so you're happy with it offline, that's the best you could hope for now. But with players and baseball gurus who have never failed at the game and have mastered it in all it's possible iterations, it shouldn't really be an issue anyways. I'm surprised the thread even exists at all, except there are people are actually having problems winning games or with strikeouts, and I tried to help them rather than just justify my greatness.

[Keirik]

Re: Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

lol "It's not a problem for me, I'm still an awesome player who has no issues smashing every changeup, I just can't be bothered so change it." This is kind of a reoccuring theme here. I don't see why people feel the need to try to validate themselves by posting like that, it just makes one look insecure if anything.

You have to adjust to the game every year, anyone who plays online for a franchise type game title should understand that. Try to get it changed for next year, or edit the player rating so you're happy with it offline, that's the best you could hope for now. But with players and baseball gurus who have never failed at the game and have mastered it in all it's possible iterations, it shouldn't really be an issue anyways. I'm surprised the thread even exists at all, except there are people are actually having problems winning games or with strikeouts, and I tried to help them rather than just justify my greatness.

While I appreciate you contributing to the thread, you are kind of doing so in a bit of a negative way. Posts like the one you just did are only going to lead to arguments. So are posts that say "sounds like excuses" and saying a post doesn't make a lot of sense. Hell, I never said anything about trying to pull every pitch as you gave me advice on earlier. I made the thread because personally I feel that there are just too many pitchers with very high quality changeups that I would equate to someone like Pedro Martinez' level. I'd rather not have the thread turn into a fight between users since we are getting good info going.

There is no reoccurring theme here. No one is making this confrontational so why start all that up? You kind of agree anyway when you're saying that this year's game definitely has a more effective changeup. I just wish that there was a bit more variance between the ace with a changeup and the 5th-6th starter in the rotation's changeup. Could use a bit of tuning. I'd equate it to the "What if" of if the game had every cutter be Mariano Rivera quality. Sure adjustments can be made, but I'd prefer the sim aspect moreso of a player with a mediocre version of the pitch not be of such high quality.

[therewillbechud]

Re: Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

While I appreciate you contributing to the thread, you are kind of doing so in a bit of a negative way. Posts like the one you just did are only going to lead to arguments. So are posts that say "sounds like excuses" and saying a post doesn't make a lot of sense. Hell, I never said anything about trying to pull every pitch as you gave me advice on earlier. I made the thread because personally I feel that there are just too many pitchers with very high quality changeups that I would equate to someone like Pedro Martinez' level. I'd rather not have the thread turn into a fight between users since we are getting good info going.

There is no reoccurring theme here. No one is making this confrontational so why start all that up? You kind of agree anyway when you're saying that this year's game definitely has a more effective changeup. I just wish that there was a bit more variance between the ace with a changeup and the 5th-6th starter in the rotation's changeup. Could use a bit of tuning. I'd equate it to the "What if" of if the game had every cutter be Mariano Rivera quality. Sure adjustments can be made, but I'd prefer the sim aspect moreso of a player with a mediocre version of the pitch not be of such high quality.

I don't really agree with much that you've said. You've come out and said that there is this robotic uniformity in changeups for all pitchers, that's patently false. Likewise, I don't believe you're approaching the thread in a positive way either, as others have posted the suggestion to up the pitch speed which actually does make a big difference. Since it is all a mental thing that is all in your head. Upping the pitch speed makes it easier to hit the change up because it works better with a players timing, it does nothing to change the difference in speeds between that and the fastball, which is still going to be the same. So based on those results your main issue with the mechanics is highly questionable.

Rather than take suggestions you just seem intent on keeping a scorecard on how many times I offended you by being so presumptuous to assume that you may have needed a little help. If you want your thread to be constructive, that's a really funny way to go about it.

[kehlis]

Re: Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

I don't really agree with much that you've said. You've come out and said that there is this robotic uniformity in changeups for all pitchers, that's patently false. Likewise, I don't believe you're approaching the thread in a positive way either, as others have posted the suggestion to up the pitch speed which actually does make a big difference. Since it is all a mental thing that is all in your head. Upping the pitch speed makes it easier to hit the change up because it works better with a players timing, it does nothing to change the difference in speeds between that and the fastball, which is still going to be the same. So based on those results your main issue with the mechanics is highly questionable.

If the pitch speed is truly the root issue though should the onus to resolve the issue be on the user? Should the only solution be to up the pitch speed slider?

I don't think it's unfair to discuss this is if it's truly an issue for so many people.

Band Aid's are great but don't promote much of a permanent solution which is the ultimate goal.

Rather than take suggestions you just seem intent on keeping a scorecard on how many times I offended you by being so presumptuous to assume that you may have needed a little help. If you want your thread to be constructive, that's a really funny way to go about it.

This is just uncalled for and can stay away from OS please.

[Keirik]

Re: Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

I don't really agree with much that you've said. You've come out and said that there is this robotic uniformity in changeups for all pitchers, that's patently false. Likewise, I don't believe you're approaching the thread in a positive way either, as others have posted the suggestion to up the pitch speed which actually does make a big difference. Since it is all a mental thing that is all in your head. Upping the pitch speed makes it easier to hit the change up because it works better with a players timing, it does nothing to change the difference in speeds between that and the fastball, which is still going to be the same. So based on those results your main issue with the mechanics is highly questionable.

Rather than take suggestions you just seem intent on keeping a scorecard on how many times I offended you by being so presumptuous to assume that you may have needed a little help. If you want your thread to be constructive, that's a really funny way to go about it.

Well, ill just take the high road and i appreciate all youve added to the thread. Glad it isnt an issue for you. Back to constructive posts now and play ball.

[Keirik]

Re: Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

If the pitch speed is truly the root issue though should the onus to resolve the issue be on the user? Should the only solution be to up the pitch speed slider?

I don't think it's unfair to discuss this is if it's truly an issue for so many people.

Band Aid's are great but don't promote much of a permanent solution which is the ultimate goal.



This is just uncalled for and can stay away from OS please.

I actually wonder if uppibg tbe pitch speed could affect steals at all. Back in the old High Heat days, I used to be one of the guys that used to tune the game and edit the tune files for the mod community. Always had to be careful tuning things when it came to speed aspects of the game moreso than other parts.

[therewillbechud]

Re: Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

If the pitch speed is truly the root issue though should the onus to resolve the issue be on the user? Should the only solution be to up the pitch speed slider?

I don't think it's unfair to discuss this is if it's truly an issue for so many people.

Band Aid's are great but don't promote much of a permanent solution which is the ultimate goal.



This is just uncalled for and can stay away from OS please.

The pitch speed being lower doesn't suddenly make the changeup more effective (which apparently is the entire point of the thread), it just means the player isn't making the adjustments and is swinging with the wrong timing. I have no issues hitting either way, and the most vocal complaints about it have come from people who say they have no issues hitting it either. So where is the issue?

The changeup speed differential is very comparable with what we've had in previous versions of the game, the same can be said with the movement of the pitch. Has anyone ever swung at a changeup down in the zone in any version of The Show where the bottom didn't fall out of it? Can't say I have.

If they have intentionally made pitch speed slower across the board that is another issue. But it does nothing to further the claims made in this thread.

I'm really sorry if any feelings were permanently hurt. It's never my intention to rustle any jimmies.

[kamackeris76]

Re: Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

I think you are missing the point. It has nothing to do with people "stepping up their game" or w/e. I've been ranked in the top 10 past 4 years w/ a 300+ avg and won the past 2 COTW's, and I can say for a fact that they just flat out messed up on a lot of the pitchers' changeups in this game. It has nothing to do with recognizing it or not. The fact is that pitchers like Tanaka, who doesn't even throw a changeup IRL or any pitch around 72-75 mph for that matter, have wrong pitch edits on the SCEA roster. Look here: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...on=P#pitchtype
His curveball should be around 72...not a changeup...

It's not a huge problem for offline, but for online and DD it is ridiculous. People do not even mix up their pitches anymore. it is just low changeups/high fastballs the entire game. Do I still win? Yes I am 46-1 for online rated games, but it is not realistic at all.

It is not just Tanaka either that has wrong pitch edits. Pitchers like Eddie Butler, whose average changeup velo was 86 last year, is 75-77 in the game. They have a lot of pitchers' pitch edits just flat out wrong. It doesn't need patched, but they just need to fix the darn rosters and pitch velocities.

This was a problem in MLB 12 with Diamond Dynasty where they had to patch the attributes. You had guys throwing 101 mph fastballs with 69 mph changeups. That was for the fictional players though and this won't even require a patch. It is a simple fix really and I don't understand why it hasn't been fixed yet via roster update.



We all know that on default pitch slider, the speed in the game is not a true 1:1 ratio. 99 mph fastball on 5 pitch speed is really around 88-89. The thing is though that the game does a good job with consistency with the pitch speeds. Meaning every single pitch will be 10-12 mph slower than what the game actually says. So if you are on 5 pitch speed you can expect a 99 fastball to be really coming in at 89 mph and a 89 mph change is really 79. Again, the issue is not the recognition of the changeup itself, but the real issue is that the pitch edits are just not accurate.

It'd be like if they gave Wainwright a 69 mph changeup for no reason and then me telling you to step up your game because you complain it is not realistic.

I just got dominated last night by tanaka's change up.... Didn't realise he doesn't throw a change up anyway! (from the UK, baseball is not my main sport). Hoping the pitch edits are made to the osfm rosters if this is the case. Bit crap they can't get this right!

[Keirik]

Re: Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

I just got dominated last night by tanaka's change up.... Didn't realise he doesn't throw a change up anyway! (from the UK, baseball is not my main sport). Hoping the pitch edits are made to the osfm rosters if this is the case. Bit crap they can't get this right!

He doesn't really throw a change lol

[bobloblah1980]

Re: Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

I find it really strange that there are not 1 but 2 threads on this forum that are at least 7 pages long about the change ups being so messed up and not a word about it from the Devs? Very unlike them to at least acknowledge this . I'm a little disapointed

[HozAndMoose]

Re: Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

I find it really strange that there are not 1 but 2 threads on this forum that are at least 7 pages long about the change ups being so messed up and not a word about it from the Devs? Very unlike them to at least acknowledge this . I'm a little disapointed

What are they supposed to acknowledge? Im sure they have seen the threads. No point in talking about until they fix it. And if they came in and said they weren't fixing it people would just bitch.

[jcar0725]

Re: Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

What are they supposed to acknowledge? Im sure they have seen the threads. No point in talking about until they fix it. And if they came in and said they weren't fixing it people would just bitch.

There's nothing for them to fix, just get better at hitting.

[Keirik]

Re: Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

There's nothing for them to fix, just get better at hitting.

Thees plenty for them to fix. How about starting with not having so many pitchers in the game throw them when they dont have them in real life? How about having some of thrm throw mediocre ones compared to others?

[orion523]

Re: Too Many "Pedro Martinez" Type Changeups?

Reading through this thread there seems to be two prevailing topics:

1. There are too many pitchers in the game who use a change, and it's universally devastating.

- With this I partially agree. Yes there are pitchers in the game who use a change when they don't in real life, but the effectiveness does vary depending on the pitcher. Some are much much better than others.

2. Hitting the change is harder than it should be.

- I completely disagree with this. Hitting period is extremely difficult, and in the past it was much much too easy. With the changes made this year the game better represents how difficult it is to hit well, and how much more difficult it is when you have a pitcher capable of changing speeds on you but to say it's now too difficult is a bit much. Hitting now takes more than reflexes, it takes thought, planning, knowledge of the pitcher and what he's capable of and how he reacts to certain situations. Pitch recognition is so important. I love batting in this year's game, it's much more satisfying than it's ever been because finally the fear of failure exists, can't say it has in past versions.