Just a reminder to keep this thread respectful, and don't try to hijack it just because you see a developer responding.
With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
Collapse
Recommended Videos
Collapse
X
-
Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
Just a reminder to keep this thread respectful, and don't try to hijack it just because you see a developer responding. -
Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
I think you all are totally wrong about the meter, it's perfectly fine the way it is. First of all, I don't think anyone has nentioned that it has to do with player stats as well. Missing a spot with Kershaw is going to be different than missing with a lesser pitcher, as it should be.
But more importantly, [b/]having total control even when you miss the accuracy mark is silly and unrealistic and not at all how real baseball works.[/b] The way you want it makes the game much too easy. For example for a high fastball you can just train yourself to always be some degree early on the meter, that way worst case it's a high ball, best case a swing and miss or borderline called strike. Rarely will solid contact be made. At the same time a low pitch like a sinker say you can just always be somewhat late on the meter, and you'll either get a ball, swing and miss,grounder, or borderline strike call, but no solid contact. MOST real pitchers don't have this kind of control. Home runs and deep extra base hits happen when pitches supposed to be high fall into the zone or pitches that are supposed to be low come up into range.
After using meter for many years I have been using pulse for the past 3 games and have no control at all over underthrow or overthrow. However, I learn how certain pitchers tend to miss and adjust accordingly. And when I miss the timing I deal with the consequences.
I am 9-0 in DD online, not a huge sample size so I'm no great player, but I am not losing any edge whatsoever because I can't control my pitches well enough.Comment
-
Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
I haven't found the time to play much last year so this year I thought I'd give dynamic difficulty a try to see if I can still pitch in All-Star like in 12 & 13. Through my first ten games in my franchise I have yet to see a change in difficulty, the best I could do was Rookie+ and +++ in progress (pitching that is). Then the CPU, behind in runs, decides to give itself a nice two out rally in late innings. And I have yet to pitch a game where I do not give up a home run. Sometimes mixed into the rally, sometimes early in the game.
I'd play more but after such games I quit and won't touch the game for a day or two.Comment
-
Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
Most MLB pitchers have exactly this type of control. Those that don't aren't in the league very long. More than 90% of the time when a MLB pitcher misses his spot he does so toward the side of the plate he is aiming. Very rarely does a pitcher completely miss. What would make more sense is to put the system in place so that if you aim high and miss the meter late then it goes higher than the spot but if you are aiming low and miss the meter late it goes low, mimicking an overthrow.
That's just not true. Not every missed low fastball is going to miss lower due to overthrow, and not every high fast ball is going to be missed high with underthrow. Pitchers underthrow a low fastball and catch too much plate ALL the time.
The meter is a pretty tried and true video gaming method for things like pitching, golf, free kicks, etc but the motions in real life have nothing at all to do with a meter. A real pitcher doesn't "set" his power coming back then "set"'his accuracy coming forward. There are literally thousands of small motions and thoughts that go into the location of every single pitch.
I think you should go look at MLB averages for ERA, hits allowed, runs allowed, etc. They have much less perfect control than you think.Comment
-
Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
That's just not true. Not every missed low fastball is going to miss lower due to overthrow, and not every high fast ball is going to be missed high with underthrow. Pitchers underthrow a low fastball and catch too much plate ALL the time.
The meter is a pretty tried and true video gaming method for things like pitching, golf, free kicks, etc but the motions in real life have nothing at all to do with a meter. A real pitcher doesn't "set" his power coming back then "set"'his accuracy coming forward. There are literally thousands of small motions and thoughts that go into the location of every single pitch.
I think you should go look at MLB averages for ERA, hits allowed, runs allowed, etc. They have much less perfect control than you think.
And statistics using histograms and standard deviation from trend lines shows this exact level of control for MLB pitchers.Comment
-
Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
But they don't miss a low and away fastball up and in without some serious extenuating circumstances. As someone that pitched growing up I can tell you that if I am aiming low and away 99.9% of the time my pitch is going low and away to some degree and I was not a good pitcher. The original complaint with the meter system is that if you miss the bar the ball has a chance to go anywhere so you target low and away, slightly miss the bar and it goes inside. That's just not realistic at all. The original post was not about perfect control at all. It was about imperfect control.
And statistics using histograms and standard deviation from trend lines shows this exact level of control for MLB pitchers.
Even with the changes to the meter this year you are NOT going to throw a fastball low and away, miss the meter low, and have the pitch come way up and in, that is not happening. However, if you throw a fastball low and away and miss the meter in either direction (high or low) the ball might come SLIGHTLY up, meaning that if you're using a RHP vs a RHB and you're targeting the black low and away and miss, it might come up a bit and allow for some good contact. This is totally realistic, to me anyways. I just don't believe that most MLB pitchers "miss where they want to" 90% of the time.
Also don't forget about player's stats as well. Outside the top 10 to 15 guys most everyone else has fairly low control and bb/9, usually in the 60s or even 50s. That's playing a part too. If you have a guy with bad control and bad bb/9 he may just miss his spot, on top of the over/underthrow. For example, again if I put my marker on the low black and overthrow you guys want the pitch to miss down. But the pitcher might MISS HIS SPOT meaning where you placed your ball marker and actually throw it waist level, then with the over throw it does drop a bit but still gets a lot of plate. You are seeing this as a low fastball with overthrow "missing high, randomly" when in reality the pitcher has missed the spot altogether.Last edited by kooch66; 05-13-2015, 11:47 AM.Comment
-
Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
Actually I have experienced it happening this year. And with respect to mlb pitchers control f/x stats show mlb pitchers miss their spots by an average of less than 12 inches. A good mlb pitcher misses by less than 8.Comment
-
Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
And I would love for you to link me these stats, histograms, deviations, and all this other technobabble that shows what you're saying. I took a quick look and could not find much, though I did find one article from 2011 comparing Halladay's pitch locations vs Edinson Volquez. Halladay hit his spots near perfect over 50% of the time and missed his spots in a very even distrubution. Volquez on the other hand missed nearly all his pitches to his right, and almost all of those up...So when he missed, which was a lot, he missed up and right like 65-70% of the time. So this guy lead the league in walks that year ans you mean to tell me he was missing up and right by design 99% of the time?? No way.
And 4 years later he's still in baseball and making over 7million dollars a year. Major League Pitchers, while generally the best in the world, are still much less accurate than most of you seem to think.Comment
-
Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
How is a foot not a SIGNIFICANT amount of variation??Comment
-
Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
Correct, 12 inches absolutely is huge. The plate is only 17" wide - if you aim outside on the black and miss by 12", that pitch is grooved on the inner half right where the hitter wants it. WHAMMO!Comment
-
Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
12 inches was the average across all of baseball. And again no pitcher above high school aiming at the outside black is going to leave the ball back across the inner half of the plate without a serious extenuating circumstance. That's the exact point, the game does not differentiate that with where the meter end point is in reference to the target bar. If you miss the bar it calculates a random end point based on missing the bar combined with the pitchers control stat. The point is and kooch made exactly my point with his volquez stat is that miss location is predictable based on location and trajectory. For volquez it was also combined with his mechanic flaw of leaving his shoulder open and not tendency to not finish his pitch.Comment
-
Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
After being frustrated by this I stepped back and considered if it was something that I was doing and found that it's more often than not a matter of me not adjusting my pitching to the situation. Not a matter of mixing up pitches but a matter of my location. I've noticed that the inning immediately after you score or when trailing in the late innings the cpu begins to get much more aggressive. I tend to always pitch to the corners in the zone and have very low walk totals and when the cpu goes aggressive I get burned. And as I said thats usually in those moments when they need a rally. My guess is people that are seeing these "opportune" comebacks have low walk totals and an abnormally high strike to ball ratio that are playing right into the cpu aggressiveness.
Even with the changes to the meter this year you are NOT going to throw a fastball low and away, miss the meter low, and have the pitch come way up and in, that is not happening. However, if you throw a fastball low and away and miss the meter in either direction (high or low) the ball might come SLIGHTLY up, meaning that if you're using a RHP vs a RHB and you're targeting the black low and away and miss, it might come up a bit and allow for some good contact. This is totally realistic, to me anyways. I just don't believe that most MLB pitchers "miss where they want to" 90% of the time.
Also don't forget about player's stats as well. Outside the top 10 to 15 guys most everyone else has fairly low control and bb/9, usually in the 60s or even 50s. That's playing a part too. If you have a guy with bad control and bad bb/9 he may just miss his spot, on top of the over/underthrow. For example, again if I put my marker on the low black and overthrow you guys want the pitch to miss down. But the pitcher might MISS HIS SPOT meaning where you placed your ball marker and actually throw it waist level, then with the over throw it does drop a bit but still gets a lot of plate. You are seeing this as a low fastball with overthrow "missing high, randomly" when in reality the pitcher has missed the spot altogether.
The fact remains that most pitchers can throw their pitches at least NEAR where they're aiming. If I'm aiming low and I miss the meter even a SMIDGE early, that pitch can leak over the plate. Your hypothesis about users being able to train themselves to miss locations by a smidge is just completely off because by that logic, we too should be able to train ourselves to nail the meter every time, which simply isn't realistic. I don't know how the game would be SO easy by your definition because we as humans CANNOT nail the meter perfectly every time, so if I aim low and miss a smidge early, that pitch can be in a hitter's wheelhouse. Likewise, if I "train" myself (at this point we've already established this is impossible) to miss the meter by a smidge, the CPU can be sitting in that location and still hit the ball solidly. The fact that the pitch location is completely random when missing the meter only fuels the argument that the CPU can see a team down and "randomly" decide to have my pitch leak down the middle resulting in a hard hit ball. And again, this only fuels the argument that we as users have very little control in the outcomes of the games. And that is very disappointing to the degree that it makes me almost not want to play if I know my skill level has almost no bearing on my game results.Comment
-
Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
Throw urgency ?
Base-running tag-outs ?
Foul balls transported to fielder's glove in Wrigley Field ? (not only Cellular Field)
These 3 issues were NOT mentioned nor addressed in 1.03 Patch !Comment
-
Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
My strike/ ball ratio is quite realistic every game, I always make sure to check to make sure and yet I still run into the "CPU Aggressiveness" issue when my team gets a lead of 3 runs or more. The fact is, when my team gets a lead of 3 runs or more, the CPU gets ultra-aggressive AND ultra-efficient in that they take more balls, take more walks and get more hits and there is very little you can to combat it.
Again, not true in my experiences. I've had PLENTY of pitches where I've aimed low and outside, missed the meter by a slither and had the pitch go high and inside or low and inside, nowhere near where I was aiming. And Russell said it himself, when you miss the meter, the pitch location is completely random by design. Why would it be coded that way? The answer is clear as day.
The fact remains that most pitchers can throw their pitches at least NEAR where they're aiming. If I'm aiming low and I miss the meter even a SMIDGE early, that pitch can leak over the plate. Your hypothesis about users being able to train themselves to miss locations by a smidge is just completely off because by that logic, we too should be able to train ourselves to nail the meter every time, which simply isn't realistic. I don't know how the game would be SO easy by your definition because we as humans CANNOT nail the meter perfectly every time, so if I aim low and miss a smidge early, that pitch can be in a hitter's wheelhouse. Likewise, if I "train" myself (at this point we've already established this is impossible) to miss the meter by a smidge, the CPU can be sitting in that location and still hit the ball solidly. The fact that the pitch location is completely random when missing the meter only fuels the argument that the CPU can see a team down and "randomly" decide to have my pitch leak down the middle resulting in a hard hit ball. And again, this only fuels the argument that we as users have very little control in the outcomes of the games. And that is very disappointing to the degree that it makes me almost not want to play if I know my skill level has almost no bearing on my game results.
I never said you could train yourself to always miss by a smidge, which you're right would just equate to being able to always just nailing the line perfect. What I am saying is training to always miss a low pitch with overthrow and always miss a high pitch with underthrow to any degree, not just a smidge...This is easily possible.
Meaning if I aim low and away I can ALWAYS miss some degree low on the meter and ALWAYS make sure the ball never trails up. This is very possible and not realistic at all. On a low pitch if you overthrow the meter it should miss up some of the time. Again real pitching is not based on a meter! If you aim low you might miss and throw one up a little! Not every pitcher is going to aim low and either hit their spot or miss low EVERY time, that's nonsense.
Regardless, I went to practice mode with a very average/below average pitcher, Jeremy Guthrie, and threw low fastballs with meter and overthrew them all. EVERY single one of them missed low, as you would want them to...so I don't even see what problem you are having anyways.Last edited by kooch66; 05-13-2015, 06:52 PM.Comment
-
Re: With all they've tweaked with gameplay, there's still so much more they didn't...
They deleted my bug report (not closed, deleted) about the Wrigley Field boundary issues in which balls teleport back into the field, CPU fielders try to make plays on obviously foul balls rows deep while running into the walls, and commentary on obvious foul balls that go, "And he couldn't come up with it."
So I'm guessing it's not going to be addressed since someone confirmed it still happens post-patch 2. I would be fine if they closed it and said, "Next year." but deleting it when they tells us to submit bug reports is a little annoying.Comment
Comment