Breaking pitches.

[aarondmsu]

Re: Breaking pitches.

. Jake Arrieta's curve in particular can go from 12-6 to 12-8, and even break the other way at 12-5.

Seriously? That's bizarre.

[oldtimey]

Re: Breaking pitches.

That is not bizare, but pretty common. The 12-6 curveball is the most difficult of pitches to throw where you want it to go. The variance in location of Arrieta's is typical of a very good one. Just altering his right leg's drive off the pitching rubber can cause the variance in its final location. It is also the most difficult of the breaking balls for the plate umpire to call a strike. He be fooled by the pitch more than the hitter.

[NDAlum]

Re: Breaking pitches.

I've kind of thought this as well.

If the developers are trying to simulate different breaks that's all well and good. However, I would just assume to have the same "indicated" break every time but just with a different result. Take a fastball for example. You place the ball marker where you want and pitch. Sometimes it goes perfectly straight, sometimes it rises just a hair, and other times in make break a bit. But I don't want to see it in the display prior to the pitch.

On the other hand, I agree with a 12-6 curve. It shouldn't break armside.

Fastballs stay straight, run in, dive, cut, or any combination of the 4. They do not rise.

Every time you throw a breaking pitch it won't have the same break (some are sharper/better and some you just don't finish the pitch and it flattens out). But to have a 12-6 from a righty break arm side is something that needs to be corrected and removed. It's not possible.

I use classic with no visuals so I guess it won't really impact my game. However if I see a 12-6 break arm side I'm going to make a weird face.

[Jr.]

Re: Breaking pitches.

To any of you who think that the lack of consistency with breaking balls is a bug or a glitch: Have you ever tried to throw a breaking pitch in real life? As a former pitcher who threw a 12-6 curve (then, we called it a "drop"), I only threw a good one when all the variables were in line--grip, stride, release point, etc. Sometimes it would "back up," winding up on my arm side of the plate. I would also have to adjust stride, drive and release point the first time I threw one from the stretch position. Also, when fatigue crept in, that would also affect the consistency of its movement. And then, there were days when I would come out of the bullpen without throwing a decent one in warmups, only to have it fall off the table in the game (and visa versa). It would not be realistic to be able to achieve perfect 12-6 rotation and location on every pitch. Depending on your variables, it sometimes will look a little like a screwball, or dive into the dirt, especially a knuckle or spike curve ball. The best pitchers maintain consistency with their breaking pitches when they can keep their mechanics consistent. But, even then, nobody is perfect. You will get those days when everythlng is working on the mound, but those are rare times. I watch all of my games cpu-v-cpu and I think The Show's simulation of the pitching aspect of baseball is pretty realistic, in my opinion.

Just because the ball backs up and ends up arm side, doesn't mean it broke that way. You probably started it further arm side than you wanted to.

You literally can't throw a breaking ball that moves arm-side. The rotation won't allow it. You would have to put arm side spin on the ball, and you can't do that unless you pronate your hand. If you're pronating, you're throwing a screwball.

[aarondmsu]

Re: Breaking pitches.

That is not bizare, but pretty common. The 12-6 curveball is the most difficult of pitches to throw where you want it to go. The variance in location of Arrieta's is typical of a very good one. Just altering his right leg's drive off the pitching rubber can cause the variance in its final location. It is also the most difficult of the breaking balls for the plate umpire to call a strike. He be fooled by the pitch more than the hitter.

My comment was about the 12-5 curveball for a right handed pitcher. I don't think that's terribly common.

[zukes]

Re: Breaking pitches.

I also threw a 12-6 curveball when I played, and it can indeed go the "wrong" or arm side way. It is never good because if that happens it is kind of floating rather than breaking and usually gets absolutely crushed. Announcers reference this all the time when a pitch "backs up on him" Means it broke in an unintended way.

[aarondmsu]

Re: Breaking pitches.

I also threw a 12-6 curveball when I played, and it can indeed go the "wrong" or arm side way. It is never good because if that happens it is kind of floating rather than breaking and usually gets absolutely crushed. Announcers reference this all the time when a pitch "backs up on him" Means it broke in an unintended way.

I see your point. I never really considered that 12-5, just a hanger. But I guess I see how it could be described that way.

[kehlis]

Breaking pitches.

A 12-5 "curveball" is a screwball.

A ball can not go that way without the corresponding spin to make it do so.

Edit: Didn't see Jr's post above but basically that.

[eF 5ive]

Re: Breaking pitches.

Just because the ball backs up and ends up arm side, doesn't mean it broke that way. You probably started it further arm side than you wanted to.

You literally can't throw a breaking ball that moves arm-side. The rotation won't allow it. You would have to put arm side spin on the ball, and you can't do that unless you pronate your hand. If you're pronating, you're throwing a screwball.

This isn't completely true. When I pitched in little league I threw an arm side breaking ball with solid command. I made the county all star team 3 years in a row. Would love to hear your accolades, though. Just because we don't see it much doesn't mean it's impossible. It's just a technique that needs to be instituted at a young age. Muscle memory.

[kehlis]

Re: Breaking pitches.

This isn't completely true. When I pitched in little league I threw an arm side breaking ball with solid command. I made the county all star team 3 years in a row. Would love to hear your accolades, though. Just because we don't see it much doesn't mean it's impossible. It's just a technique that needs to be instituted at a young age. Muscle memory.

From what I know of the three in this thread that have said otherwise you're not going to win the "accolade" battle.

[RyanWreck]

Re: Breaking pitches.

To any of you who think that the lack of consistency with breaking balls is a bug or a glitch: Have you ever tried to throw a breaking pitch in real life? As a former pitcher who threw a 12-6 curve (then, we called it a "drop"),

I have, and I too am a former pitcher, pitched my whole life all the way through College. And yes, breaking pitches have variation but not like this. When one pitch is a 1-7 sweeping CB and the next time you throw it it has armside run like a Screwball? No, that does not happen in real life. Changing the axis of rotation and the orientation of the axis with both respect to the seam and the ground takes a complete change in mechanics on the fly from literally one pitch to the next pitch, not merely fatigue or a bad day, a slower stride or a change in arm angle would not make this happen, and when a breaking pitch backs up it does not make the ball rotate in a completely different way.

I agree with you that the pitching mechanics in this game are the most realistic, they're great and have always been very good, however I feel like they did mess this up.

[kehlis]

Re: Breaking pitches.

Off the top of my head the only non fastball pitches that can move arm side would be splitters, change ups, knuckleballs and obviously screwballs.

[NDAlum]

Re: Breaking pitches.

I also threw a 12-6 curveball when I played, and it can indeed go the "wrong" or arm side way. It is never good because if that happens it is kind of floating rather than breaking and usually gets absolutely crushed. Announcers reference this all the time when a pitch "backs up on him" Means it broke in an unintended way.

No, it doesn't. When a pitch backs up on somebody it means they released it incorrectly and missed their location. Therefore you might have the ball flatten out, be more up in the zone, and be closer to the heart/inside of the plate. The curve ball doesn't break arm side.

[Gagnon39]

Re: Breaking pitches.

To any of you who think that the lack of consistency with breaking balls is a bug or a glitch: Have you ever tried to throw a breaking pitch in real life? As a former pitcher who threw a 12-6 curve (then, we called it a "drop"), I only threw a good one when all the variables were in line--grip, stride, release point, etc. Sometimes it would "back up," winding up on my arm side of the plate. I would also have to adjust stride, drive and release point the first time I threw one from the stretch position. Also, when fatigue crept in, that would also affect the consistency of its movement. And then, there were days when I would come out of the bullpen without throwing a decent one in warmups, only to have it fall off the table in the game (and visa versa). It would not be realistic to be able to achieve perfect 12-6 rotation and location on every pitch. Depending on your variables, it sometimes will look a little like a screwball, or dive into the dirt, especially a knuckle or spike curve ball. The best pitchers maintain consistency with their breaking pitches when they can keep their mechanics consistent. But, even then, nobody is perfect. You will get those days when everythlng is working on the mound, but those are rare times. I watch all of my games cpu-v-cpu and I think The Show's simulation of the pitching aspect of baseball is pretty realistic, in my opinion.

I get that. And I'm fine with it. But the indicators (yellow arrows) should not show me that the break will be armside. No one would do that on purpose. And even if they would/could, I'd like to be able to control it. If I want to throw a curveball low and away to a righty (using a righty pitcher), I want the ball to break out of the zone and try and get him to chase. If I select my curveball and the arrows have the ball breaking armside, that's a problem.

Now... if I try and throw the curveball low and away AND THEN the ball breaks armside... fine. It happens.

[oldtimey]

Re: Breaking pitches.

As this thread continues, I am beginning to see the issue more clearly. A 12-5 or 12-8 curve both result from a flaw somewhere in the mechanics that creates that pitch. The 12-6 break is the goal. If there is some way that the game gives you the option by arrows or markers to purposely make the pitch break arm side, then, yes, that's wrong. I haven't pitched in a video game since Hardball on the Commodore 64. With every video sports game I have owned since the 1980s (Earl Weaver Baseball), I have watched the game play itself. The Show is no different once you utilize the right slider settings. So I never see pre-pitch meters, arrows and markers after my games start. So I can understand the problem a human pitching would have if during pitch selection he is given the option to have a 12-6 curve purposely break arm-side. That is not realistic and needs to be corrected. I now see your point.