This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

[Jr.]

Re: This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

Agree with this. It seems like there's just a drastic lack of animations in the game. I don't know if it's the animation system or what, but they need to add a lot more. It's the most evident with catchers. The blocking animations are terribly inept, and the transition from when the catcher does block it to getting to it are painfully slow.

I've been hoping for years now for a new animation engine. With no new Pro Yakyuu Spirits anymore, it would be my dream if The Show could buy that animation system and implement it. That game is a thing of beauty.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

Agree with this. It seems like there's just a drastic lack of animations in the game. I don't know if it's the animation system or what, but they need to add a lot more. It's the most evident with catchers. The blocking animations are terribly inept, and the transition from when the catcher does block it to getting to it are painfully slow.

I've been hoping for years now for a new animation engine. With no new Pro Yakyuu Spirits anymore, it would be my dream if The Show could buy that animation system and implement it. That game is a thing of beauty.

Shorter Version
Based on what I've been doing for the past couple of weeks (learning about animations). I honestly don't think it comes down to an animation engine. It comes down to the artist(s) execution. However, the more realistic animations and gameplay in PYS and Jikkyou is why it makes it extremely difficult to go back to MLBtheShow16. If I never learned about PYS/Jikkyou, I would still be religiously playing MLB16. However, even when I was exclusively playing MLBtheShow back in the days, I always had issues with its lack of urgency animations and the pitching and fielding motions.

Learning 3D animation has been taking up a lot of my spare time. Don't have much time for video games anymore, but when I do, I have to be incredibly selective.





Longer Version

Spoiler

For the past week, I have been trying to learn animation. Downloaded the free software "blender." It's an open source software. One can create video games, create 3d models, along with 3D animations and 2D animations with blender. It's analogous to the software Maya (used by professionals and currently under a paid subscription model).

The following in spoiler tag shows two animation sequence of a pitching motion using the same exact software. These were done by someone else. Disregard the character, focus on the overall animation. I've included two gifs below. The first gif reminds me of the animations seen in MLB the Show. The second gif reminds me of the animation seen in Konami's PYS. Watch the embedded youtube video to get a general idea of what was done to "clean up" and make the animation much more realistic.

GIF #1: Analogous of the "slower" animation seen in MLB the show. Notice how "slow" and "floaty" the pitching motion is.

Spoiler

GIF #2: Analogous of the "faster" more realistic animation seen in PYS. Notice how "realistic," "fast," and "weighted" the pitching animation motion is.

Spoiler

Youtube video. I stumbled onto this video when I was searching for tutorials on how to improve my animations.

Spoiler

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_HMEM97DZF4" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Having an understanding of the 12 principles of animations is good, but only when one properly implements the principles, then will the animations breathe realism.

Spoiler

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5l2Aem7Ll3A" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

My other concern about MLB the Show's animation is that a certain percentage of the fielder's throwing motion doesn't have the proper body mechanics. Example is seen with the following outfielder throwing the ball back to the infield. The forward step and follow through isn't a natural motion; it looks like it was motion captured by a non-athletic individual.



@4:44 to 4:50 mark (outfielder throwing motion).
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FXJ1kjuhcuc" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>


The following videos in the spoiler tag shows that it's the "execution" of the animation as opposed to the software used. Blender was used to create all three videos below.

Spoiler

Animation created in blender: Camou

Spoiler

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EMjfAOkUR58" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Animation created in blender: Cosmos Laundromat

Spoiler

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Y-rmzh0PI3c" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Animation created in blender: Agent 327 (from 0:10 - 0:20 mark)

Spoiler

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/1IkGeD1Ybk0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

[Armor and Sword]

Re: This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

Reading these threads always amaze me at the things people see that I have never seen! There must be a lot of variety between settings.

I do think fielding needs an overhaul. Take out the canned animations, give the user full control of the fielders and make the game work from there.

That is not going to happen. You pull those canned animations out and the sheer beauty and poetry of the game will be nudered and you might as well go back to the PS2 days and play.

There is a give and take with having a game as visually stunning as MLB The Show 16 and I can live with some quirks (which have continually been improved each cycle) in exchange for seeing and feeling a baseball game that almost mimics real life. If the NBA 2K series would do this too.....there would be torches and pitchforks in their community and a massive outcry. The incredible animations in this game is what separates it from baseball games of yesteryear. It's not an easy "strip canned animations and go from there" Your simply telling them let's go back to the stone ages of console sports video gaming. I have played them all (baseball, football, basketball and hockey) through the years (going on 35 years of console gaming now) and give me the amazing visuals and continue to enhance more control in that arena of realism.


I could not disagree with your post more than that.

[KBLover]

Re: This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

That is not going to happen. You pull those canned animations out and the sheer beauty and poetry of the game will be nudered and you might as well go back to the PS2 days and play.

There is a give and take with having a game as visually stunning as MLB The Show 16 and I can live with some quirks (which have continually been improved each cycle) in exchange for seeing and feeling a baseball game that almost mimics real life.

The thing is, at least to me, the beauty and poetry of baseball is also in its sheer speed of how quickly things happen on the field. To be able to execute difficult movements and tasks with such quickness and accuracy is what's amazing.

I don't think that's captured very well in The Show. Things move too much like slow motion. When I watch videos of someone like Ozzie Smith seemingly instantly sprawl out to the ground, glove the ball, than pop back up on his feet to make a strong accurate throw, I think about trying to replicate that even with an elite fielder in the The Show and don't see how it's possible.

And then throw on the animations that do need to die (like running to a wall that the fielder wasn't even near or the double clutch throwing) or the inability of players to break down their momentum with quick little stutter steps and how slow the animations play out - it destroys the poetry for me because it stops the possibility to see these great plays.

And now with StatCast exposing the particulars of how players are doing these things and trying to bring that into The Show, it really just makes me wonder how realistic the animations and engine is. I mean infield throws are one area. It was like pulling teeth to get it to give me a throw I could even estimate (by timing the time vs distance) at 90 MPH even from the cannon arms. Or how slowly runners move even at default (let alone having to lower them even more so that Billy Hamilton runs like he's average 4.0 home-to-first instead of elite 3.5 or less)

Yes, the "canned" animations will have to stay, but the speed in which they play out needs to increase in order to capture the actual beauty of the game, imo.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

Yeah we both agree the urgency is an issue. I was simply responding to a post that is asking to strip out the evolution of sports video gaming which is real life motion capture animations to make sports games more life like.

It is well documented that the lazy animations need to be fixed.

[KBLover]

Re: This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

At least until an actual physics model is developed that uses biomechanics.

Then the forces and inputs involved can be simply the ones that exist in real life and the movements would respect the actual movements of a player's body without having to force things.

We'd have a physics-based fielding model and it doesn't get more realistic than actual physics (as in F = ma physics, not the term "physics" as used in video games).

But I guess that will never happen, at least not in my lifetime. Just feels like "settling" to just stop at forced animations and hoping there's "enough" to stop discussions like this from ever happening.

[Review]

Re: This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

I don't know that defense needs a complete overhaul but there are things needed to be improved upon/fixed.

My two biggest gripes are:

1) the locking an infielder in place (most notably SS/2B) that leads to infield hits because you can no longer charge a slow chopper in the infield. The game locks your fielder into place and forces you to wait on the ball to reach the fielder instead of the fielder charging the ball and throwing on the run.

2) Lack of defensive web gems or great plays. Everything seems so routine. You rarely see that jumping catch in the infield on a line drive over the fielders head. You rarely see that 3B snag a hot shot down the line, jump up and throw out the runner at first. You rarely see that outfielder run back on a ball reach out and make the catch right before crashing into the wall. Everything seems so routine, even the diving plays. Seems as though they just happen so they happen instead of happening based off a great play.

Agree with number 1. Not number 2 though as I've seen so many defensive gems by great infielders. e.g. Machado throwing out a guy at 1st from 3rd on his ***, Simmons making a diving snag on a line drive, Gardner making a diving catch in OF near the line and many more. I see new stuff with this game every time I play be it hitting or fielding. I should honestly start saving these wizard fielding clips so everyone can see.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[CBoller1331]

Re: This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

Id love to see a complete overhaul of fielding animations. Most of them just seem really clunky...(I should note that I still haven't upgraded to the PS4 version, so i believe there are a few animations that i may be missing out on). Nothing is really that smooth. Especially in the infield.

Id love to see "signature" animations for fielding like they have for crossovers/layups...etc in 2K....where the more difficult/flashy animations are available to the players with higher defensive ratings, and the lower rated players have simpler animations. They could do something like trying to capture some of the top plays of each year...make those "signature" for those players, then have additional animation "packages" for each position.

You could have a "simple", "gold glove", "rocket arm", "quick first step"....just kinda spit ballin'. It would just be something to differentiate the Brandon Crawfords from the Jhonny Peraltas....

Wouldn't mind seeing different throwing styles...especially for infielders. You could have a few different arm angles to choose from, ranging from over the top, to sidearm like Cano, or even submarine like Zimmerman was when he still played 3B. Also could be choices for how quick the release the ball. Middle infielders like Crawford and Lindor seem to have such quick releases and can transfer the ball from their glove on the ground to their ear to make a quick throw in no time. While some third baseman (and Addison Russell kinda does it too) have longer throwing motions where they bring the ball all the way back.

[cas850]

Re: This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

For manual fielding controls, they could benefit greatly from a "tracking" modifier button such as L2.

If there is a fly ball, you can run with just the joystick at a faster speed, and when you get close, you hold L2 and to give the user confidence the OFer has the ball lined up to the best of his ability and tell the game you 100% want a fielding animation and are done running.

No more running to the spot on the field and praying the canned animations kick instead of the fielder running through the spot.

Ratings would play a big part in how effective fielders are if tracking is engaged late.

This is much like usering a safety in Madden with the L2 button for strafe. You can use that keep your player balanced in coverage and able to react to passes and ball carriers with confidence.

[NDAlum]

Re: This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

#4 thing I need to add:

The double plays are too perfect and fast. That contradicts my call for urgency! All the throws on DP's are on the money and 99% of the time they are turned flawlessly.

[KBLover]

Re: This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

#4 thing I need to add:

The double plays are too perfect and fast. That contradicts my call for urgency! All the throws on DP's are on the money and 99% of the time they are turned flawlessly.

They are turned less reliably for me, but I would like to see interference at 2B actual impact the pace of a throw if the fielder can't get a full release. A lot of times I see the animation where the runner appears to impact the fielder at the bag's throw, but then the throw is like nothing happened, even if the fielder has meh throw accuracy and fielding.

It would be nice to see more incomplete turns with more than just the "dropped on transfer" or the occasional "pulled off the bag". To me, that's where it its, not in that they actually try to turn the DP with urgency. Also, if the fielder at 2B is pulled off the bag, don't always let it make the batter-runner safe. The urgency breaks down too much if the feed is not on target. It's like the fielder gives up on it, then realizes, oh wait we might still get one, and then it's too late. Poorer fielders, I could see, but the competent ones - less so.

DPs are urgent plays and I wouldn't want them turned slower, just less cleanly (same attempted quickness, more hair on the attempt at various points in the turn), but that's also why sometimes things go wrong and "you can never assume the double play" irl.

[bobzyauncle]

Re: This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

I've been playing this game probably for about 200+ hours and one of the keys to the game is: always bat with zone hitting so you have more variety in terms of outcomes and two: have fun and work out sliders that work for u but not too far off default. The more u chase the more u will get frustrated. When I first started I thought only insane people would play on all star or HOF, but now I am a commander in my own little world. I truly believe zone hitting is the key for non generic outcomes. Also lower player pitch control, I have mine on 1, but it is personal preference. Ask yourself if you've been playing x+ hours and you see the same outcomes all the time then try something new. This is a beautiful game.....

[Syce]

Re: This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

the one thing that kind of annoys me, is when you hit a ball off the wall for example, the outfielder will know EXACTLY where to stand to retrieve the ball as it bounces off the wall. like instead of going back and trying to make a jumping catch off the wall, they will run to the place where the ball will eventually end up and wait for it to bounce to them. (this is on autofielding)

[saucerset]

Re: This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

We need 3 things:

Urgency
Urgency
Urgency

I had a routine grounder to 1B. He picked it up and ran to the bag and just before the bag he did that slow walk and then just casually touched the bag. The problem is that the runner was SAFE. The first baseman didn't show any urgency to get out the runner that was coming straight at him. It was like a programmed animation that didn't take into account the runners speed.

[Chai2112]

Re: This game needs a complete fielding overhaul.

#4 thing I need to add:

The double plays are too perfect and fast. That contradicts my call for urgency! All the throws on DP's are on the money and 99% of the time they are turned flawlessly.

Of everything I've read in this post, this is really the main thing for me. There are way too many perfectly executed double plays (I think I average around 5-6 a game). However, I think a lot of that may be due to the fact that I don't lead off first that much because the even bigger problem is the CPU's ability to pick off! That's what really need an overhaul. How many times have you had a guy at second take a few steps off the base, you see the pitcher is clearly turning around to pick him off, you push R1 a million times, but the runner just stands there and then gets tagged out? I almost feel like there is no point in taking too many steps off 2nd because it's a sure out. Similarly, if I take a one step lead with a slow batter, for example Big Papi, off first, in real life the pitcher would never attempt to throw to first to hold him back. In the game, he will.

Regarding the other fielding problems, I honestly haven't seen them. My games play out super realistically (other than the above two complaints). I don't know if it's a sliders thing or what, but I have no real issues. Yes, I have the occasional lack of urgency that leads to a hit, but it's very rare. I find that pre-loading the throw and charging the ball usually plays out realistically and gets the runner out. I also feel that it's realistic in terms of the fielder throwing more leisurely when there's a slow runner and more quickly and harder when there's a fast runner.