Prospect Progression

[335TDC]

Re: Prospect Progression

I don't mean to straw man you, so if those 2 options aren't what you had in mind, then what's the 3rd?

I have none of those in mind because to me that's so far down the priority list of Franchise it doesn't even register. Injuries happen: give me a timeframe and perhaps the option to play him hurt for increased risk of injury (like 2K). (Coincidentally, I think the Durability rating is garbage -- give players 2 separate ones, Conditioning and Injury Risk.)

I think you're spraying indiscriminately at this point. If you really want to help SDS make Franchise better for next year, focus on the true core elements of any multi-year mode: good prospects with realistic ages, attribute distributions and development curves; year-round scouting and possibly a more robust scouting system; in-season contract extensions; and more financial things to fiddle with. If SDS added even two of those next year I'd be over the moon. BASICS, BillPeener -- RPG stuff later.

All respect.

[335TDC]

Re: Prospect Progression

you say that like it's a bad thing...

Haha, it would be my dream come true, but focus is key here.

[335TDC]

Re: Prospect Progression

Player personality is a huge factor in real life sports, and with all due respect, it's head-scratching to see someone argue against implementing it in a game that's meant to emulate reality.

I agree, and I'd love to see it in the game, but NO WAY IN HADES will I care about a "stud" SS prospect's personality or sincerity if he has a 17 throw power, a 26 speed, and an 8 durability and is 25 years old. See what I mean?

[BillPeener]

Re: Prospect Progression

I think you're spraying indiscriminately at this point.

That's because you're confused.

I'm merely expressing that in an ideal world, the game would be geared more toward us evaluating players rather than us trying to figure out the underlying science the devs could give us in minutes.

I'm not saying SCEA needs to add this to Franchise mode. It's far down my priority list.

I agree, and I'd love to see it in the game, but NO WAY IN HADES will I care about a "stud" SS prospect's personality or sincerity if he has a 17 throw power, a 26 speed, and an 8 durability and is 25 years old. See what I mean?

If his ratings are that low, coaches and scouts wouldn't even recommend signing him and would highly recommend you release him immediately. Scouts, coaches, fans, everyone should be raging at you in reports and news about how stupid it is to have a MLB team with a player who can't even succeed in high school.

[335TDC]

Re: Prospect Progression

That's because you're confused.

I'm merely expressing that in an ideal world, the game would be geared more toward us evaluating players rather than us trying to figure out the underlying science the devs could give us in minutes.

I'm not saying SCEA needs to add this to Franchise mode. It's far down my priority list.



If his ratings are that low, coaches and scouts wouldn't even recommend signing him and would highly recommend you release him immediately. Scouts, coaches, fans, everyone should be raging at you in reports and news about how stupid it is to have a MLB team with a player who can't even succeed in high school.

Sorry, sometimes I lose track of what thread I'm in, and to me your the Improve Franchise Crusader (which is needed), so I probably read that into your comment. Apologies.

[335TDC]

Re: Prospect Progression

If his ratings are that low, coaches and scouts wouldn't even recommend signing him and would highly recommend you release him immediately. Scouts, coaches, fans, everyone should be raging at you in reports and news about how stupid it is to have a MLB team with a player who can't even succeed in high school.

Hmmm, lipstick on a pig. No thanks. Problem is that created prospects are by-and-large garbage (not just OVR-wise, but like I wrote before: age, att. dist., progression). So the point isn't that your idea is bad -- it's great -- but it's cart-before-horse. Lots of A prospects in this game have Achilles' heels that are just unrealistic.

[TGov]

Re: Prospect Progression

This is all great info. I'm trying gage some players. I have the OSFM rosters and I'm watching Jorge Mateo, Clint Frazier, and Gleyber Torres. Frazier and Mateo I called up to the MLB after my first season. They were both 73 overall but after my second season, they both went up to 75. Now I called up Torres and he is a 72 starting at SS. Meanwhile I have Kaperlian who is a top 50 pitching prospect stuck in the minors at a 64 overall the past two seasons.


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You realize this is the pattern IRL. Some prospects flourish and continue to do well when others seem to hit a wall and stay in the minors. When is it time to cut them loose and move on? Could they be a late-bloomer? Need a change of scenery?
That's why I love the game, it's so dynamic on so many different levels and they continue to add more.

[BillPeener]

Re: Prospect Progression

Hmmm, lipstick on a pig. No thanks. Problem is that created prospects are by-and-large garbage (not just OVR-wise, but like I wrote before: age, att. dist., progression). So the point isn't that your idea is bad -- it's great -- but it's cart-before-horse. Lots of A prospects in this game have Achilles' heels that are just unrealistic.

Yeah, that would definitely need to be fixed first. You know more about what happens during progression than I, so I'll trust that it's a serious issue.

[tessl]

Re: Prospect Progression

Ok, so I have some questions about developing players.

1. What level is best to keep your prospects at to grow? ie. AA, AAA, MLB

2. Is it much harder for a player to grow past a certain age?

3. What is a good base overall for a young guy to reach before calling him up to the MLB?

4.Does training play a significant role?

5. Say you have an A or B potential prospect but he is still a 68-74 overall by age 24 or older, is he not going to reach his potential? and is it time to move on?

Thanks in advance.

Since they instituted performance based progression I'm not sure anybody understand progression/regression. I've seen young A potential prospects declining in early April presumably because they had a poor spring training and/or poor start to the season.

It's no longer linear based upon potential and age although they may be factors.

[dutchy25]

Prospect Progression

I will add that if you have a prospect you are considering calling up to the MLB, waiting until he is hot is a good option. As well calling him up cold is a bad idea.

Because of injury I was left with a huge hole in my starting rotation. I chose to pick a prospect who was hot with a lower overall than a veteran with a higher overall but was cold.

The prospect has stayed hot since calling him up and is now 6-0 with a 2.56 era through 8 starts. If he ends up cooling off and starts to struggle due to his low ratings then I'll send him back down. But for now he is staying in my rotation over the veteran pitcher who got hurt in the first place.


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[tessl]

Re: Prospect Progression

I will add that if you have a prospect you are considering calling up to the MLB, waiting until he is hot is a good option. As well calling him up cold is a bad idea.

Because of injury I was left with a huge hole in my starting rotation. I chose to pick a prospect who was hot with a lower overall than a veteran with a higher overall but was cold.

The prospect has stayed hot since calling him up and is now 6-0 with a 2.56 era through 8 starts. If he ends up cooling off and starts to struggle due to his low ratings then I'll send him back down. But for now he is staying in my rotation over the veteran pitcher who got hurt in the first place.


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What I do in franchise is simply trade my top prospects who aren't MLB ready for established players with MLB attributes because of the anarchy in progression renders prospects too unpredictable. Bird in the hand vs 2 in the bush theory.

[Mega0862]

Re: Prospect Progression

Since they instituted performance based progression I'm not sure anybody understand progression/regression. I've seen young A potential prospects declining in early April presumably because they had a poor spring training and/or poor start to the season.

It's no longer linear based upon potential and age although they may be factors.

So basically, no one really knows and it's a crap-shoot. Cool!

[BillPeener]

Re: Prospect Progression

So basically, no one really knows and it's a crap-shoot. Cool!

Briefly, here's where it's a crapshoot for me:

1. Does performance affect progression? If so, to what degree?
2. What do the potential letters mean? What does A potential mean? Does it correlate to a specific overall potential rating? For example, is 90+ potential an A? Or, does it indicate how quickly a player is likely to progress toward their potential? Maybe A means that a player reaches his potential twice as fast as a player with a B rating. Maybe not. Does anyone know for sure what the letters mean?
3. Do injuries affect progression? If so, to what degree?
4. Is there logic coded into the system to allow for outliers like an R.A. Dickey rising or Jamie Moyer lasting till age 50?
5. Does morale affect progression? If so, to what degree?

I could name 500 other questions that remain unanswered. I can understand not revealing the specific formulas for how much - for example - batting average in the minors affects contact progression. However, it'd be nice to know for certain that a player's minor league average definitely has at least some impact on progression.

There's no right or wrong opinion on this subject. If you feel like that game code / formulas / logic shouldn't be revealed, that's fine. What it comes down to is consequences. The consequence of us not knowing what variables impact progression or [insert one of countless other areas of the game], we choose to spend hours upon hours banging our heads together, hoping not to lose our cool, only to result in a reply like yours, which ultimately concludes that we have indeed come to no conclusion.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Prospect Progression

2. What do the potential letters mean? What does A potential mean? Does it correlate to a specific overall potential rating? For example, is 90+ potential an A? Or, does it indicate how quickly a player is likely to progress toward their potential? Maybe A means that a player reaches his potential twice as fast as a player with a B rating. Maybe not. Does anyone know for sure what the letters mean?

I can answer this one. A is 90+ potential. It has nothing to do with speed of improvement (that is unknowable). B is 80+, C is 70+, D is 50+. Not sure if they still have lower potentials they used to have an E and F, don't think they are in the game anymore.

You can actually use the player search function to determine the granular potential rating of a player. Search the player you want to scout by name and then set the minimum potential rating to the bottom of his stated potential (so 80 for a B prospect). Then just keep raising the minimum potential by one until his name disappears off the results list. The last number where he was visible is his potential.

I guess you can also go into the edit player screen, but that always feels like cheating to me and I only use it for positional changes or for my counter to the ridiculous regression system (even then I try to avoid it if possible).

[tessl]

Re: Prospect Progression

Briefly, here's where it's a crapshoot for me:

1. Does performance affect progression? If so, to what degree?
2. What do the potential letters mean? What does A potential mean? Does it correlate to a specific overall potential rating? For example, is 90+ potential an A? Or, does it indicate how quickly a player is likely to progress toward their potential? Maybe A means that a player reaches his potential twice as fast as a player with a B rating. Maybe not. Does anyone know for sure what the letters mean?
3. Do injuries affect progression? If so, to what degree?
4. Is there logic coded into the system to allow for outliers like an R.A. Dickey rising or Jamie Moyer lasting till age 50?
5. Does morale affect progression? If so, to what degree?

I could name 500 other questions that remain unanswered. I can understand not revealing the specific formulas for how much - for example - batting average in the minors affects contact progression. However, it'd be nice to know for certain that a player's minor league average definitely has at least some impact on progression.

There's no right or wrong opinion on this subject. If you feel like that game code / formulas / logic shouldn't be revealed, that's fine. What it comes down to is consequences. The consequence of us not knowing what variables impact progression or [insert one of countless other areas of the game], we choose to spend hours upon hours banging our heads together, hoping not to lose our cool, only to result in a reply like yours, which ultimately concludes that we have indeed come to no conclusion.

1 - yes they changed it due to people wanting it - there was a long thread/debate/argument about it on this website.

5 - to the extent morale impacts performance it impacts progression.

Everything else I'd be guessing.