Directional Hitting Guide

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

On the flipside, the more I play the more I'm convinced that (most) of what I wrote is true.

Playing spring training and a fireballing pitcher who has given me fits before at the plate comes up. I think: Screw playing to my batter's strengths, I need to adjust to the pitcher.

So even with my power hitting pull hitters I'm doing nothing but push, down, or hybrid push down swings. Worked perfectly, netting me two runs in the inning thanks to the expanded timing window and the added vision/contact. Ended up being the game winning runs too. One of my hits was on a changeup that I pulled into the power alley for a double.

Not contradicting you guys or discrediting your experiences, I just figured it was about time I added my own testimony for those who are still on the fence.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

I nearly did it! I nearly hit a homerun using contact swing and the push/down hybrid!

It was with one of the players trying to earn the backup catcher spot in spring training. Hammered it into the pull field power ally closer to center to ricochet off the top of the wall for a double.

Also, this spring I've been experimenting with a new hitting strat with my young pull hitters, and it's been so successful I might start using it with my big boys as well.

On 0-1, 2-2 and 3-2 counts I've been using the hybrid pull/down swing. Before I would just pull. The added vision without power loss is really nice, plus it's way easier to check swing. One of the boys vying for the DH spot on my team just hammered a 3-2 fastball just inside the pull field foul pull for a 2 run homerun my last game using this strat. I'd definitely recommend trying it out if you're struggling with your pull hitters.

[COMMISSIONERHBK9]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

so I'm getting aiming down is where to go to get the most hits varaitons?

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

so I'm getting aiming down is where to go to get the most hits varaitons?

That's... actually not a bad way to think about it, and yes it might actually be true.

When aiming down, you're sacrificing a little power in order to secure more solid hits (line drives, hard grounders as opposed to popouts and choppers) but it's not the worst idea in the world to aim down all the time. You'll still hit homeruns, and one could argue it'll be just as many since the reduction of power will be counteracted by the increase in quality contact.

There are still some hits you won't see with the down influence, like looping liners into the corners, but for the most part yes, I do believe the down influence will produce the most hit variety.

Edit: I also just realized, you're playing the Yankees, right COMMISSIONERHBK9? That would explain a LOT why you are struggling to see results from using the directional hitting guide. The Yankees have practically no vision, and as I've said before directional is extremely dependent on the vision attribute, way more so than any other interface. Using the down influence will help combat this, as will turning up the solid hits slider.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

Ok, I have an exciting, possibly game changing theory and I need playtesters ASAP!

I think that having no influence greatly increases the impact of a good input at the cost of the timing window, both for ideal inputs and for fouling off.

If this is true, it would make it an ideal swing for high power/low vision guys when ahead in the count. Judge, Sanchez, Bryant, Shwarber, CarGo, Upton, Cespedes are all good examples, and have all been talked about in the thread as having difficulty finding success using the guide.

It would also make for an ideal first pitch swing (if you chose to do so) for a lot of players.

I always assumed that having low vision was just bad for directional, as I've always had a generally high vision team, and when I couldn't find success using CarGo I just assumed that because he had low vision he was never going to find success on my team and traded him off.

It would also explain why most of the detractors of the guide are usually playing the Cubs or Yankees, and the "You're guide was great except I can't seem to hit with x player anymore" posts.

This... this is crazy. Definitely would love for people to chime in and give me their results on this.

I may *groan* have to edit the OP. I don't mind in theory it's just that it has become such a monstrosity that the thought of editing it is giving me nightmares.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

OK, just playtested a game in spring training where I loaded my team with most of my lowest vision players. I have a few things to add to the post above.

While the input impact doesn't seem to be as high as I hoped, I think no influence also raises the impact of hot/cold zones (they have very little impact while influencing). Had a couple of prospects who have been struggling in spring break out this game using a no-influence favoured strategy. I had assumed that they were both struggling due to low to mediocre vision. Not a ton of evidence but very encouraging.

So please, help me out and try a few no-influence favoured at bats, and let me know the results. The thought of being able to get value out of low vision players and adding a new batting tool to my arsenal has me excited.

Edit: To sum up my theory so far, I believe no influence buffs the effect of the precision engine and hot/cold zones, at the cost of the timing window.

What this does is wrestle some of the control away from the vision attribute, letting your input and pitch selection be a bigger factor in getting a quality AB. Think of it like "keyholing". The batter is looking for their pitch in their spot. If true, it will be a great swing for "feast or famine" type power hitters.

Meanwhile, it will still be bad for high vision players, as the loss of the timing window isn't worth what is gained. As for low vision leadoff types, a downwards influence will be better still for the vision boost, the wider timing window, and the better chance to foul off.

[COMMISSIONERHBK9]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

so what would be the best team to use in franchise then?

That's... actually not a bad way to think about it, and yes it might actually be true.

When aiming down, you're sacrificing a little power in order to secure more solid hits (line drives, hard grounders as opposed to popouts and choppers) but it's not the worst idea in the world to aim down all the time. You'll still hit homeruns, and one could argue it'll be just as many since the reduction of power will be counteracted by the increase in quality contact.

There are still some hits you won't see with the down influence, like looping liners into the corners, but for the most part yes, I do believe the down influence will produce the most hit variety.

Edit: I also just realized, you're playing the Yankees, right COMMISSIONERHBK9? That would explain a LOT why you are struggling to see results from using the directional hitting guide. The Yankees have practically no vision, and as I've said before directional is extremely dependent on the vision attribute, way more so than any other interface. Using the down influence will help combat this, as will turning up the solid hits slider.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

so what would be the best team to use in franchise then?

Hold off on switching teams for now. If my theory is true, and no-influence wrestles dependence away from the vision attribute at the cost of timing, then the Yankees could potentially be a really good team still using directional.

It was actually your post that sparked this whole theory. I was thinking about reasons why you might be struggling to see results, and then I thought about all the other people who struggled or criticized the guide and if they had anything in common. That's when I realized the pattern. I need more results though to confirm the theory, and that's a long way off. That's why I need opinions and first hand experiences from the community, to help expedite the process and confirm/debunk the theory.

[gman2774]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

I'm not sure I understand. I currently use influence on every swing with every hitter and have seen my hitting improve greatly. Teams I have used in franchise include the Cardinals, Indians, and Orioles primarily. Are you saying I would be better off not using an influence with hitters such as Trumbo and Chris Davis?


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[TheWarmWind]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

I'm not sure I understand. I currently use influence on every swing with every hitter and have seen my hitting improve greatly. Teams I have used in franchise include the Cardinals, Indians, and Orioles primarily. Are you saying I would be better off not using an influence with hitters such as Trumbo and Chris Davis?

I'm not sure yet, hence the call out for playtesters. If I were to use my out of ten confidence system, I'd give this theory a 3 right now.

What I do know (for sure):

No influence reduces the timing window.

High vision players benefit more from following the Directional hitting guide as is.

What my (limited) play-testing has shown so far:

SOME low vision players do seem to benefit more from a no influence swing, and the ones that do tend to have more hot zones.

Playing with no influence again seems to further confirm my theories on the buffs/de-buffs of the influences.

Using no influence on high vision players is detrimental.



This is all I've got so far. I'd love for you to help out by playtesting these theories gcoons22, but if you just want to play and enjoy the game (which is totally understandable) then I'd suggest sticking with whatever is working for you for now. Don't adjust unless you have to.

[The Chef]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

I'm not entirely sure I understand lol. I only swing influence with certain hitters, ie. slap hitters with speed or guys with low power to try and avoid lofting routine flyouts otherwise I swing away without influencing at all. I have Jarrod Dyson who has 80+ vision and I still swing influence down and away, doing this method he has a .384 average through 50 games, Dee Gordon has lower vision and I have the same approach and he's batting .389 through the same 50 games. Then you have Kyle Seager with high vision, extreme pull hitter and I don't influence at all and he's only batting .266 on the season but does have 14 Doubles and 13 HR's so far. I had the same approach last season with Seager when he hit .300 with 37 Doubles and 57 HR's. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean.

[Duff2]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

WarmWind,

Love the guide and I like many others have seen a great improvement in my hitting. I play with the Red Sox. Throughout the guide there are player archetypes mentioned (Power, Contact, Speed, Hybrid). What rating threshold do you use to determine which type of category they fall under? Example: anybody over 65 power is a power hitter? Should I still use the pull swing on pull hitters even though they have low power ratings ie: Pedroia, Holt, Leon.

Thanks again for the guide. I read it often for updates as well as reaffirming the process every time before I play.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

I'm not entirely sure I understand lol. I only swing influence with certain hitters, ie. slap hitters with speed or guys with low power to try and avoid lofting routine flyouts otherwise I swing away without influencing at all. I have Jarrod Dyson who has 80+ vision and I still swing influence down and away, doing this method he has a .384 average through 50 games, Dee Gordon has lower vision and I have the same approach and he's batting .389 through the same 50 games. Then you have Kyle Seager with high vision, extreme pull hitter and I don't influence at all and he's only batting .266 on the season but does have 14 Doubles and 13 HR's so far. I had the same approach last season with Seager when he hit .300 with 37 Doubles and 57 HR's. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean.

Ok, I'll try to sum up the theory in different words, but I'm not sure if I can explain it better than I already have.

Let's assume you follow the guide as it is right now and influence on every swing. You'll find, like I have, that vision is the most important attribute for your player to have.

For both Gordon and Dyson you realized that buffing their contact and vision was the best approach, especially since they are both leadoff archtypes, and you were correct. It doesn't matter that Gordon has lower vision, he needs doesn't need power, so it's ok to sacrifice that in order to gain contact, vision, and a wider timing window.

Now I believe you'd have more success using influence every time with Seager even if this theory is true and here is why.

When you swing at a pitch down the middle, there are four factors that are working to determine if you get "good" contact, which implies getting a line drive or a hard grounder over a popout/easy fly/chopper.

One is vision. The batters vision, as we established earlier in the thread, is responsible for moving the invisible PCI and for determining foul ball frequency on balls the invisible PCI misses and for determining foul ball frequency on pitches you mistime. You can see why it's such an important attribute.

So, we can actually divide Vision into two factors. Vision (PCI placement) and Vision (Foul Ball Frequency). Vision (PCI placement) is one of the four factors in determining good contact.

The second is Contact, which simply determines the size of the invisible PCI.

The third is hot/cold zones.

The forth is the precision engine introduced in MLB 16, where precise inputs are more likely to be rewarded and imprecise inputs more likely to be punished.

There is a fifth (pitch selection) but for the sake of simplicity we're removing that and just assuming the pitch is a straight fastball down the middle, and your player doesn't have any quirks (geez the Show is complex).

When using an influence, the engine heavily favours the Vision (PCI placement) and contact, and while the precision engine is still a decent factor the hot/cold zones have little effect. This is something I've confirmed over the past two years of playing the Show.

However, if my theory is correct, picking no influence favours the precision engine and hot/cold zones, and while Contact and Vision (PCI placement) are still factors, it is possible that Vision (PCI placement) is actually a very small factor when choosing this swing.

What this potentially does is help normalize high power/low vision batters like Judge, where you want to swing for power, but using an influence and leaving solid contact mostly up to Vision (PCI placement) is virtual suicide. High power hitters also tend to have a lot of hot zones, so this will also help normalize them, while still staying true to the fact that they strike out a lot (and therefor should have low vision).

Meanwhile, for high vision players, using the no influence swing would be detrimental, because in the end the Precision engine has an element of randomness to it that is even across all players. A low vision player will benefit from this because the RNG of the precision engine is better favoured than the RNG of their Vision (PCI placement) factor. However a high vision player might have an equal or better chance favouring their Vision (PCI placement) factor.

Equal or better chance favouring Vision (PCI placement) plus a wider timing window equals no reason to not pick an influence.

I feel like I'm hurting more than helping with this, but hopefully it helps.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

WarmWind,

Love the guide and I like many others have seen a great improvement in my hitting. I play with the Red Sox. Throughout the guide there are player archetypes mentioned (Power, Contact, Speed, Hybrid). What rating threshold do you use to determine which type of category they fall under? Example: anybody over 65 power is a power hitter? Should I still use the pull swing on pull hitters even though they have low power ratings ie: Pedroia, Holt, Leon.

Thanks again for the guide. I read it often for updates as well as reaffirming the process every time before I play.

Good questions!

Unfortunately, I don't have a simple answer for the first one. There are a lot of factors that go into determining what archetype a player is, including the the two most important:

What role do you want the player to have in your organization?

What type of success are they finding in the game?

Attributes should be taken as guidelines, not the word of the law, and I've had many a player bat outside the archetype their attributes say they should be.

But let's ignore that for now and turn this into a raw numbers game.

Yes, 65 power is a good place to start thinking about power hitting.

Speed is slider dependent, but 77 or 78 is a good threshold for the speed archetype. Anything over 55 in BR is good for stealing, though you really need to pick your spots until you get into the 80s.

Hybrid, you want contact and vision above 65. 65 is a good threshold for most batting attributes. You'll want power around 50-55 to start thinking of them as a hybrid threat. 65 to 71 speed is also a good hybrid threshold.

Contact was kind of referring to everybody else.

As for your low power pull hitters, yes, you'll still want to favour pull in general. I'd recommend using a strat that favours the pull/down hybrid swing. I've been finding a lot of success with that recently, especially with low power pull hitters. In fact it's been so successful I'm starting to use it sometimes with my high power pull hitters too. Great for a 2-2 count.

[hyacinth1]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

well ive' gone full circle now in this game. I"m back to zone without pci. Not sure if it's the patches or what. Maybe I just suck at hitting. I played a great game in DD vs cpu, 14 innings, ended up losing 1-0. I barely can score a run.

Question : in directional, if I don't point the stick anywhere and just press the button, does the game basically use the player attributes in determining the outcome of the at bat?

Say the pitch is outside and I just press X or Square and I don't touch the stick to try to influence the direction of where I want to hit it. Can I still get hits this way? I'm now leaning towards less user skill since I suck and relying more on the player ratings to determine the outcome of the at bat.

If what I describe is correct, then the game is purely based on timing the pitch right?