Catchers' Pitch Call / API

[underdog13]

Re: Catchers' Pitch Call / API

Right down the pipe? Ive been playing this game since its inception and have yet to see the catcher call for a pitch dead center...so im not buying that.

No one is disputing whether or not the catcher calls for identical pitches 3 times in a row or 1 location 3 times in a row....

I am disputing that his catcher called for not 1 pitch right down the middle, but 3!

My point was he didn't need to over exaggerate to prove his point and i stand by it.


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I miss read your original post, apologies.

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[franko3219]

Re: Catchers' Pitch Call / API

This is a good question. If the answer is that there are no specific ratings tied to it, what a great opportunity for it to be implemented. It would just add to the importance of signing the right player, instead of just focusing on arm strength and/or batting average.

I know that I've seen some pitch calls from the catcher that has me scratching my head. The one that usually gets me, because I'm not paying attention, is when my fielders are in a shift to field a pull hitter, but the catcher is calling for pitches on the outside part of the plate. Next thing you know, there's an opposite field roller because no one was there.

[JPCaveman13]

Re: Catchers' Pitch Call / API

I've tended to notice that some catchers, namely the one's known for being great at calling games, have a better "game-awareness" when calling pitches. However, just throwing a random catcher back there (one RTTS has a middle-of-the-road CAP catcher) and those pitches seem to be called more for the situational norms than based on the actual pitches, like I may get a call for the 0-2 fastball just high and just inside and then come back with a low breaking ball tailing out of the zone.

The main issue I do have with the AI calling pitches is with the extreme pull hitters. The way I was coached to call for those pull-hitters is if:

- it's a fastball, it needs to be up under the hands to where if it's hit, it's off the handle of the bat or it's far enough outside to be a weak hit off the end of the last two inches of the bat,
- it's an off-speed pitch, it should start middle-in and break into the hitter or start middle and move outside and away from the hitter,
- if it's a breaking pitch, it should break out of the zone or too far inside/outside depending on the handedness matchup and pray that it doesn't hang

so this way the ball never really ends up in that middle-in "happy zone" of the hitter. If it did end up there, it was most-likely an off-speed pitch that has the hitter off-stride for a weak grounder to the shift or a massive mistake that deserves to get crushed. All of this is tossed out because a "just late" swing to an extreme-pull hitter (really any hitter) in this game is a rocket to the opposite-field gap instead of the weak grounder to the pitcher/rotated-over infielder. But that tends to bring in more aspects that need coding (individual reactions to pitches, bat speeds, where each batter tries to make contact with the pitch, etc) and that info was a nightmare and a half to remember when catching some twenty-plus years ago, let alone someone trying to code all of those factors.

[Shergie51]

Catchers' Pitch Call / API

I miss read your original post, apologies.

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Accepted my man...props to you for your humility! Perfect example of great forum etiquette and I applaud you...

Also I want to reiterate: I think this is an awesome question and topic, as i have wondered about this for years.

But The fact is that the logic displayed calling pitches in this game is superior to a lot or probably even most users playing the game. In fact, unless someone considers themselves truly advanced and knowledgeable in this area, they should probably not complain and just go with the pitch called.

Even when i have A different Pitch combination/approach to a hitter i can still see the logic behind what the AI is calling for.

Also to the people complaining of consecutive ppitchesof the same pitch:

in any 2-pitch combination, regardless of the first pitch thrown, what pitch is statistically proven to be a good 2nd pitch?

Answer: the same pitch as the first one! (splitters are the exception)

Guess whats better than a "Changeup-Fastball"?

A "Changeup-Changeup"! "CB-CB"Slider-Slider... if you never throw the same pitch twice in a row ur not calling pitches correctly and you are easy to predict.

Wanna guess about the top 3-pitch strikeout combinations? I will give you a hint, it is NEVER 3 different pitches! #1 three pitch strike out combination is: fastball-fastball-fastball (4seam) #2 is fastball-fastball-slider #3 is slider-slider-slider

But never, absolutely never even if it is a 3-0 count to the #9 hitter throw any pitch right down the pipe. Unless maybe you're up by 10 runs in the ninth-inning LOL


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[KingV2k3]

Re: Catchers' Pitch Call / API

But The fact is that the logic displayed calling pitches in this game is superior to a lot or probably even most users playing the game. In fact, unless someone considers themselves truly advanced and knowledgeable in this area, they should probably not complain and just go with the pitch called.

I've gone with the catcher's calls (for the most part) for years with this game...

MY experience is that when I "shake the catcher off" and just throw some other pitch to some other location, it get mashed more often than not...

If I don't like the call and have runners on, I'll just throw pickoffs until I get something "we can both agree on" OR I'll just step off the mound and see if that works, similarly...

Or call for a mound visit, in a critical situation...

You also have to pay attention to what's working and what isn't...

If the sinker isn't sinking, use sparingly and target them to land outside the zone...

K's come from having the CPU swing at balls, as much or more than strikes...

With pitchers that have a 4 / 5 pitch repertoire, it's more about mixing up the speeds and locations, which the AI seems to have a pretty good handle on...

When you have a guy that throws straight gas (Chapman), by all means, call for the 4 seamer as often as you like and his low(ish) ACC with take care of mixing "location"...

Overall, I'd say I go with the call all but once or twice an inning (max), using QC...

I wonder if those pitches we "don't see" in QC are factored into the sequence for played pitches, but who knows...

At any rate:

I agree that the AI is more logical than not and although I have notched some K's from "freestyling", I've also seen more balls end up in the seats from doing so!

[BegBy]

Re: Catchers' Pitch Call / API

Right down the pipe? Ive been playing this game since its inception and have yet to see the catcher call for a pitch dead center...so im not buying that.

No one is disputing whether or not the catcher calls for identical pitches 3 times in a row or 1 location 3 times in a row....

I am disputing that his catcher called for not 1 pitch right down the middle, but 3!

My point was he didn't need to over exaggerate to prove his point and i stand by it.


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I'll suggest you're the liar then. Catchers call for stuff right down the middle all the time. It's absolutely impossible that you've played as much as you said and have never seen it.

[BegBy]

Re: Catchers' Pitch Call / API

Did you actually listen to him on the calls? If you didn't, then it's not that weird for him to call for it multiple times. If you did, then that's another story.

I absolutely did not, obviously. I do understand the catcher calling for it 3 times as I shrugged it off, but I still feel it's bad AI.

[Shergie51]

Re: Catchers' Pitch Call / API

I'll suggest you're the liar then. Catchers call for stuff right down the middle all the time. It's absolutely impossible that you've played as much as you said and have never seen it.

All the time huh? Lol...post me a pic! Its that simple. Until u do, ill suggest youre the liar...if im wrong ill apologize (afterall i use my own gameplan pitching 90% of the time)

Should be easy enough since it happens so much right? Maybe im wrong and just dont notice it...anyone else have an opinion on this?


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[Shergie51]

Re: Catchers' Pitch Call / API

you play long enough, you'll eventually get the same pitch called 3 times in a row and in the same general area. I havent (that I recall) had the slider in particular called like that but I have had the knuckleball called like that plenty. But then, the knuckler is a special circumstance.



As far as different catchers calling different games, I cant say that I have noticed that.

Heck, lots of times I call my own game and dont even pay the catcher any heed. The only time I that I really look to the catcher for help is if I'm struggling and hitters are teeing off on me.

Bingo! Or if its a Pitcher with a large/unique repertoire, or if its the 3rd time through the order and u want to use a different approach...or if its a 12-pitch duel and you have thrown everything but the kitchen sink and she's freaking for these man just gonna leave it in there why taken out of the game do that get them out of the game


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[hitmanwa]

Re: Catchers' Pitch Call / API

Not to dig up an old post but is cera part of this?

[saucerset]

Re: Catchers' Pitch Call / API

I've gone with the catcher's calls (for the most part) for years with this game...

MY experience is that when I "shake the catcher off" and just throw some other pitch to some other location, it get mashed more often than not...

I've had this experience. I usually step off to get a new pitch called. It would be nice to just have a shake off option.

**Just realized this thread is a year old. lol

[stealyerface]

Re: Catchers' Pitch Call / API

This is not my milieu, but I do not believe there is any catcher/pitcher specific AI associated with the API. IIRC, the AI provides suggestions based on a more general strategy/approach. It will track a HUM player's tendencies and look at some situational criteria in order to make some "on the fly" adjustments. Essentially, what would an AI controlled pitcher most likely do if it were in the player's situation...

I would love to see, and would volunteer at some point, an effort be made to utilize baseball logic as part of the catcher's ability and rating, to have a bearing on calling the game.

You have Trout at the plate, and we know he is a beast. As a pitcher, in real life, I would feed Trout a steady diet of soft stuff away, to see what his level of commitment to the offspeed pitches would be. If he decides to take a hack, maybe we get a grounder to the right side, or if he lays off, we walk him and concentrate on the guy behind him.

My wish, would be for at some point in the series, the catcher's rating would allow him to develop and call a better game. The dice-roll, along with the pitcher's rating, the batter's rating, would include an algorithm for the catcher's rating to be factored in, and all be part of the stew....

Ahhh.... But here is where the good stuff happens. That ratings soup would only feel the most benefits if the pitcher takes the suggestion of the highly rated catcher. Otherwise, throwing a two seam fastball to a +rated fastball hitter, after the catcher suggested something soft, would result in the algorithm favoring the batter, as the pitcher did not follow the suggestion. Likewise, a Rookie catcher might learn as his rating increase, to call a more appropriate pitch situationally, and he could raise his ratings as time and seasons passed.

Oh how we could expand this. Added to the mix would be a shake off button, (Dpad or the like) where a catcher could call for a pitch, the pitcher (human user) realizes that is not a good option, and shakes the catcher off, whereby the catcher puts down another sign. If the pitcher throws that particular pitch, the catcher could use that logic to recognize better tendencies, and ratings- as well as pitch effectiveness could increase accordingly.

But then... It gets better, if we receive a suggestion for a fastball, and we throw a curveball, now the catcher missing balls and allowing passed balls and advancing runners, would be tied to being crossed up, as opposed to a totally random occurrence of passed balls. So we are penalized for not using the shake off and throwing the pitch the catcher calls, and we lower the passed-ball dice roll when we throw the suggested pitch.

As a pitcher, sometimes I shake my head at the pitch selection the cpu puts down. We just blew two fastballs by a contact hitter, no one on base, and we are up by four runs. Yeah, that guy is getting something soft on the outer half, as he feels he needs to gear up quickly for the two previous fastballs he couldn't catch up to. If we miss with that pitch, then he gets another fastball under his hands. The game does not recognize this, and sometimes calls for the oddest, wackiest suggestions....

We could expand the pitcher, batter, catcher, passed ball, catcher ratings, in one awesome, amalgamation of data...

~syf

[stealyerface]

Re: Catchers' Pitch Call / API

Didn't realize this was a zombie thread.

If someone wants to make this a 2018 version, and move it to such, that would be great.

~syf

[JoshC1977]

Re: Catchers' Pitch Call / API

It’s only a year old thread and given the consistency of this series, I would imagine past discussion is still relevant now.


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[KBLover]

Re: Catchers' Pitch Call / API

You have Trout at the plate, and we know he is a beast. As a pitcher, in real life, I would feed Trout a steady diet of soft stuff away, to see what his level of commitment to the offspeed pitches would be. If he decides to take a hack, maybe we get a grounder to the right side, or if he lays off, we walk him and concentrate on the guy behind him.

This is actually why I keep a low strike frequency to "convince" the AI to do this more.

I think it works, especially on higher difficulties where they tend to work the black more by default.

As far as the user - well that's on the user, though I agree that it would be nice if the catcher would at least try to coax the user to work in that fashion.

Perhaps let Strike Frequency impact API calls (i.e. the whole "what would the CPU do in this situation" someone called it earlier).

Or maybe it does? I have to say I do NOT get a lot of calls to throw right down the middle. Maybe my own tendency is influencing it, as was also said as a possible influence.

I also agree with the person who said to not just throw a ton of different pitches for the sake of throwing a ton of different pitches. You have to work with what your pitcher is doing best and work off that with a plan, imo. If the API is doing that, then I think it's at least on the right track.