Stealing

[KBLover]

Re: Stealing

I moved the CPU Pick Off attempt slider all the way to the left and they're STILL constantly throwing to first. I'm starting to wonder if that slider even WORKS.

Same. One day I'll put it at 10 just to see what, if anything, is different.

[LowerWolf]

Re: Stealing

I’ve started holding down L2 and timing my release. That’s working better for me. I actually stole a base with Freddie Freeman the other night.

[Baseball Purist]

Re: Stealing

I’ve started holding down L2 and timing my release. That’s working better for me. I actually stole a base with Freddie Freeman the other night.

I was doing this and wasnt seeing a lot of success. Ive had more success tapping L1 to release, but with that comes a lot of pickoffs. I used to have pretty good success with holding L2 until im ready for YEARS. I dont know why its different this year.

[Unlucky 13]

Re: Stealing

I moved the CPU Pick Off attempt slider all the way to the left and they're STILL constantly throwing to first. I'm starting to wonder if that slider even WORKS.

I have too, and it seems to me that there's a lot more that goes into it. Some pitchers throw to first all the time, while others seem to rarely. And they really seem to take into account who the base runner is as well. They'll ignore one player, while throwing to first multiple times for another, regardless of how they're behaving.

What I've done is turn the slider for throwing to first to zero, while also increasing the base stealing and runner speed.

Then, if I'm going to steal, I always preload, and then try to time an extra step to happen just as the pitcher is getting set to throw. It takes a lot of practice to get it all down, but if you do all of that, and the pitcher throws a slower pitch, and the catcher isn't amazing, then the results have been pretty realistic.

If Im facing a pitcher with a very quick delivery who throws mostly fastballs, or a catcher with a rocket arm, then I just don't try.

[PPerfect_CJ]

Re: Stealing

I have too, and it seems to me that there's a lot more that goes into it. Some pitchers throw to first all the time, while others seem to rarely. And they really seem to take into account who the base runner is as well. They'll ignore one player, while throwing to first multiple times for another, regardless of how they're behaving.

What I've done is turn the slider for throwing to first to zero, while also increasing the base stealing and runner speed.

Then, if I'm going to steal, I always preload, and then try to time an extra step to happen just as the pitcher is getting set to throw. It takes a lot of practice to get it all down, but if you do all of that, and the pitcher throws a slower pitch, and the catcher isn't amazing, then the results have been pretty realistic.

If Im facing a pitcher with a very quick delivery who throws mostly fastballs, or a catcher with a rocket arm, then I just don't try.

The only thing is, if I have the slider set to zero, there’s no way that ANY pitcher should throw over to 1st base THREE TIMES IN A ROW. I just don’t think the slider is working. It can’t be.

[KBLover]

Re: Stealing

The only thing is, if I have the slider set to zero, there’s no way that ANY pitcher should throw over to 1st base THREE TIMES IN A ROW. I just don’t think the slider is working. It can’t be.

Thought experiment/conjecture warning. Not claiming this is how it works.

IF it's a modifier to the steal chance it assumes the runner will have, it could actually be working.

Let's say 0 Pickoff is a -10% modifier and the pickoff chance is 1/2 the steal chance of the runner, determined by situation and ratings of the runner at 1st.

So if the runner at first has a 80% chance to go in the opinion of the AI in this situation, and pickoff chance is half that, then it's 40%.

The pick off slider modifier is -10, so that's a 30% chance to throw over. Doesn't sound like a lot but almost 1 and 3 times the pitcher comes set in that situation, there's a pickoff throw? And if there's things that make it higher (extra lead, when you take the extra lead, etc). I could see how the slider could still be working and you still get 2-3 pickoffs in a row.

Heck, there's times I throw over 2-3 times in a row and I really don't use pickoffs a ton. I mostly rely on slide step and the occasional pitch out if I'm REALLY confident or to try to thwart a hit-and-run.

But I think the best way is to try some games at 10 and see if there's any difference in behavior.

The slider could be broken or just be weak. Just like Manager Hook..."situation is still the dominant influence", but it does work...maybe not as strong as it could/should.

[Unlucky 13]

Re: Stealing

Thought experiment/conjecture warning. Not claiming this is how it works.

IF it's a modifier to the steal chance it assumes the runner will have, it could actually be working.

Let's say 0 Pickoff is a -10% modifier and the pickoff chance is 1/2 the steal chance of the runner, determined by situation and ratings of the runner at 1st.

So if the runner at first has a 80% chance to go in the opinion of the AI in this situation, and pickoff chance is half that, then it's 40%.

The pick off slider modifier is -10, so that's a 30% chance to throw over. Doesn't sound like a lot but almost 1 and 3 times the pitcher comes set in that situation, there's a pickoff throw? And if there's things that make it higher (extra lead, when you take the extra lead, etc). I could see how the slider could still be working and you still get 2-3 pickoffs in a row.

Heck, there's times I throw over 2-3 times in a row and I really don't use pickoffs a ton. I mostly rely on slide step and the occasional pitch out if I'm REALLY confident or to try to thwart a hit-and-run.

But I think the best way is to try some games at 10 and see if there's any difference in behavior.

The slider could be broken or just be weak. Just like Manager Hook..."situation is still the dominant influence", but it does work...maybe not as strong as it could/should.

I agree. I don't think that turning the slider to zero turns the chances of something happening to zero, but rather turns it down as low as the user is allowed to control. Whatever amount that happens to be.

For example, think of the volume setting on a TV having the ability to go from zero to ten. And lets say that the default slider is set to 5, and turning the slider as low as you can go then doesn't turn it to 0, but rather only to 4, and turning it as high as you can go doesn't turn it to 10, but only to 6. Does that make sense?

I think that we're able to massage the frequency of things within the game on relatively small to moderate amounts. Other than injury, I don't think that we're really able to turn things off.

With that all being said, I do think that the default levels for everything within base stealing are signifigantly higher in 2018 than they were on any previous version of The Show that I have played. Adjusting the sliders to zero no longer turns things WAY down like it used to, but rather closer to what it was at dafault in previous games.

[RogerDodger]

Re: Stealing

I agree. I don't think that turning the slider to zero turns the chances of something happening to zero, but rather turns it down as low as the user is allowed to control. Whatever amount that happens to be.

For example, think of the volume setting on a TV having the ability to go from zero to ten. And lets say that the default slider is set to 5, and turning the slider as low as you can go then doesn't turn it to 0, but rather only to 4, and turning it as high as you can go doesn't turn it to 10, but only to 6. Does that make sense?

I think that we're able to massage the frequency of things within the game on relatively small to moderate amounts. Other than injury, I don't think that we're really able to turn things off.

With that all being said, I do think that the default levels for everything within base stealing are signifigantly higher in 2018 than they were on any previous version of The Show that I have played. Adjusting the sliders to zero no longer turns things WAY down like it used to, but rather closer to what it was at dafault in previous games.

I agree, there's obviously some confusion about a slider being set to zero. Setting the dynamic difficulty slider to 0 for example means that difficulty is locked at the current value. It won't change at all according to the description for the DD slider. It's inevitable that there's some confusion as to whether other sliders set to zero follow the same principle. Maybe adding that information to the slider description is the way forward for next year to avoid confusion.

[RogerDodger]

Re: Stealing

I've only attempted to steal with Andrew Toles during Spring Training. I've had pretty good success - he's the fastest guy on the roster I think so if he can't steal, nobody can - by pre-loading the steal after taking a step away from first beforehand. After reading this thread I must admit I'm tempted to try a few different ideas. Maybe pre-loading the steal then taking an extra step during the pitchers wind-up. Or manually stealing. I'm also tempted to try adjusting the pick off slider because like others have said, sometimes there can be multiple, successive attempts although eventually the CPU will stop. I'm only in Spring Training though and once I get to the regular season maybe the CPU will become more aggressive anyway.

[PPerfect_CJ]

Re: Stealing

I don't want them to COMPLETELY stop attempting pick-offs, but if I have it set to zero, it'd be nice if they didn't immediately throw over to first every time I take one step off the bag.

[BlacknBlue]

Re: Stealing

I don't want them to COMPLETELY stop attempting pick-offs, but if I have it set to zero, it'd be nice if they didn't immediately throw over to first every time I take one step off the bag.

But if I have it set to 0 I want them to stop attempting pick-offs. I expect 0 to be a value of "never". If I still wanted some pick-off attempts I would choose 1 on the scale. If it doesn't work this way then they should say as such in the menus.

[Unlucky 13]

Re: Stealing

I don't want them to COMPLETELY stop attempting pick-offs, but if I have it set to zero, it'd be nice if they didn't immediately throw over to first every time I take one step off the bag.

In my game last night, with the slider set to zero, the CPU pitcher once threw to first base FOUR TIMES before he threw a pitch. I didn't preload a steal, I wasn't telling the player to lead off any extra, and he was just stepping away from the bag like normal. He was apparently really, really worried that my runner was going. And this was in a game where I didn't actually try to steal a base once.

Its frustrating, because player injuries seem to happen on dives back to the bag more than any other type of play.

[KBLover]

Re: Stealing

In my game last night, with the slider set to zero, the CPU pitcher once threw to first base FOUR TIMES before he threw a pitch. I didn't preload a steal, I wasn't telling the player to lead off any extra, and he was just stepping away from the bag like normal. He was apparently really, really worried that my runner was going. And this was in a game where I didn't actually try to steal a base once.

Its frustrating, because player injuries seem to happen on dives back to the bag more than any other type of play.

Perhaps we should file it as an issue. Could be something not working with the slider.

[Unlucky 13]

Re: Stealing

Perhaps we should file it as an issue. Could be something not working with the slider.

The CPU pitchers, should they act this way (they don't all), seem to know which of my runners are good base stealers and which aren't. They tend to be itchy with the ones who's ratings are higher.

[Jr.]

Re: Stealing

In my game last night, with the slider set to zero, the CPU pitcher once threw to first base FOUR TIMES before he threw a pitch. I didn't preload a steal, I wasn't telling the player to lead off any extra, and he was just stepping away from the bag like normal. He was apparently really, really worried that my runner was going. And this was in a game where I didn't actually try to steal a base once.

Its frustrating, because player injuries seem to happen on dives back to the bag more than any other type of play.

Man that sounds annoying. I'm glad I haven't seen that. They only pick over frequently on me when I take the extra step on my lead.

I've had more success lately waiting to steal until the count is deeper. I usually try to go early in the count and the jump is always horrible, but waiting until the 3rd or 4th pitch of the AB my runner seems to get a better jump more often.