Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

[Williemayshayes00]

Re: Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

Please don't do this.

We don't need more conspiracy/scripting theories.

This "issue" has been brought up before on the forums and it was explained that it has to do with how the game handles replays and the missing of frames or something along those lines.

You can tell the ball is clipping through the bat during regular gameplay, at least I can. It’s most certainly not a “replays are compressed” thing. With that said it’s always been there and it always will be.

[countryboy]

Re: Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

It's OK to be wrong sometimes. Explain your stance on the clipping and I'll explain mine now.

When a player presses the swing button lots of numbers are considered (attributes) and ran through equations to determine the contact result and sometimes, no matter what, the player will not make contact. It's how the game keeps stats realistic (strikeouts, etc) for the MLB player batting and pitching, but yea, I'm wrong.

You're right with that tired replay compression excuse that you can't even explain.

You can tell the ball is clipping through the bat during regular gameplay, at least I can. It’s most certainly not a “replays are compressed” thing. With that said it’s always been there and it always will be.

You're right, I'm wrong.

Have a good day...


https://forums.operationsports.com/f...ldn%27t+happen

Yes it's a visual anomaly due to the compression used in replay. The bat doesn't go through the ball in real time.

[CujoMatty]

Re: Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

I just don’t understand why we do this every year.

The term scripting is always the hot topic but what some feel is scripting others don’t because their interpretation of what they are seeing is different. But in my opinion neither side is necessarily “wrong”.

In this game the cpu will go on streaks. If they get a few hits in a row. They jump all over you. It’s like a boost but it’s the games version of momentum. I personally think it’s extremely overdone but I’ve learned ways to combat it. I can completely understand why people interpret that as scripting. Do I think it’s scripting? Yes and no the fact is it’s a video game and as far as AI behaviour has come it’s not yet able to really nail the organic ebbs and flows without it being forced or dictated yet or some could say “scripted”

I also don’t think that SDS is wrong on their stance that the game isn’t scripted. I think their interpretation is that it’s just momentum. I don’t want to speak for them but I would also have to agree with this because there are ways to combat the momentum.

I think this article about fifa kinda sums it up. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.game...ipting+debate/

The developers truly believe they are just adding randomness that happens in real life and it’s being interpreted by some as scripting. I just truly think AI isn’t ready to handle the randomness of real life and ultimately if you feel it’s that bad you don’t have to play. That’s ultimately why I stopped playing PES

[Williemayshayes00]

Re: Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

You're right, I'm wrong.

Have a good day...


https://forums.operationsports.com/f...ldn%27t+happen

Haha that quote is why you think it doesn’t happen? It’s well known that false information is given by them in order to avoid having to address a screw up. Like I said, I can see it as I’m sure others can.

All they really need to say is “yes it’s a video game, eliminating clipping 100% is impossible, we’ve tried” because that is the truth. Trying to tell us it’s not there is insulting to our intelligence.

[nomo17k]

Re: Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

I actually spoke to a developer regarding this topic and he admitted that while there is absolutely no scripting in the code whatsoever, he too has experienced these comebacks and has no idea what's causing them to happen.

My point is this - we've all seen the CPU make absurd comebacks in this game and it literally happens on a regular basis. When I say regular, I mean literally almost (ALMOST) every single game. Just two days ago, I was up 5-1 in the ninth with Chapman pitching. Single, error, double, home run later, it's 5-5. Friend of mine on the exact same day, up 5-2 in the ninth. Error, bean ball, single, single and it's 5-4. You guys can say organic comebacks happen in baseball and my all means, you're right, they do. The thing with the game is they happen ALL THE TIME, almost every game. That's what we complain about. So while "scripting" per se may not be in the code, there is clearly SOMETHING going on (and the developer agrees with this) that is causing this to happen regularly.

I'd not want to beat dead mosquitoes repeatedly, but I'm curious which developer you talked to? It is indeed common knowledge among those who have interacted with the SDS developers that the game does not have comeback implementation. But those who actually do not actually code the game themselves of course maintain doubt if the programmers are really truthful to what they say they code up... (I don't have any reason to doubt the programmers in this regard.)

In your specific case, I think you are manually tweaking the game (e.g., via sliders, difficulty level) to the extent the game balance becomes susceptible for the type of apparent CPU comebacks to happen. I don't mean to blame this entirely on how you configure your game, but I say this from my personal experience tweaking the game. I think it is quite easy to tip the balance one way or another, so that the game suddenly favors CPU offense when your relievers are not as good (e.g., many relievers are not good in the game, even Chapman when he doesn't have good enough command of his pitches).

[nomo17k]

Re: Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

...


https://forums.operationsports.com/f...ldn%27t+happen

I do remember that quote and have wondered what that means.

It is very clear that the game replays are not "captured" directly from how the game played out (otherwise they would not be that high quality and the file sizes would be too huge to keep them in the disk).

So by "compression" I assume the game keeps track of important parameters as the game plays out (but not picture/movie data), and when we replay things the game actually "replays" those actions using the math that they use to render the as it played out. Hence the exact one-to-one-ness of what actually happened in the game and what the game can "replay" are slightly different, since the parameters the game keep track are done through some compression scheme that lose some data?

That is an interesting piece of information.

[countryboy]

Re: Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

Haha that quote is why you think it doesn’t happen? It’s well known that false information is given by them in order to avoid having to address a screw up. Like I said, I can see it as I’m sure others can.

All they really need to say is “yes it’s a video game, eliminating clipping 100% is impossible, we’ve tried” because that is the truth. Trying to tell us it’s not there is insulting to our intelligence.

Well...its tough to argue with this logic, so I won't even attempt to.

Take care...

I do remember that quote and have wondered what that means.

It is very clear that the game replays are not "captured" directly from how the game played out (otherwise they would not be that high quality and the file sizes would be too huge to keep them in the disk).

So by "compression" I assume the game keeps track of important parameters as the game plays out (but not picture/movie data), and when we replay things the game actually "replays" those actions using the math that they use to render the as it played out. Hence the exact one-to-one-ness of what actually happened in the game and what the game can "replay" are slightly different, since the parameters the game keep track are done through some compression scheme that lose some data?

That is an interesting piece of information.

I honestly don't know what it means or could even attempt to have an idea as to what it means.

I was just sharing that thread and quoted post to show that I wasn't just making things up when I spoke about the compression of replays, and that it was stated by the devs and discussed before on the forums.

[MLB14]

Re: Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

It's not scripted. It's not comeback code. It's just code. Like I said, how else could the game produce realistic stats for players other than weighing in their attributes per swing?

It's not a big deal. It's strictly visual. You didn't hit the ball anyway. This is hard to explain.. but there's no bat. It's not a physics object. The ball probably uses ray casting to determine bat collision. It's all a mirage, lol.

The developers did an amazing job programming the pitcher batter part of the game anyway.

[KnightTemplar]

Re: Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

It's not scripted. It's not comeback code. It's just code. Like I said, how else could the game produce realistic stats for players other than weighing in their attributes per swing?

It's not a big deal. It's strictly visual. You didn't hit the ball anyway. This is hard to explain.. but there's no bat. It's not a physics object. The ball probably uses ray casting to determine bat collision. It's all a mirage, lol.

The developers did an amazing job programming the pitcher batter part of the game anyway.

Short, pretty clear. Heaven forbid they ever put a stadium creator in this game with all the collision detection that needs to go on. Boards will explode.

[Drty_Windshield]

Re: Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

In a way if you think about it, clutch senarios are basically comeback codes. Attribute bonuses in key situations late in the game...

[KnightTemplar]

Re: Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

In a way if you think about it, clutch senarios are basically comeback codes. Attribute bonuses in key situations late in the game...

Not the way it is usually explained, i.e., doesn’t matter who is batting, players will mysteriously drop balls, pitchers will hit a home run, base running blunder, all scripted into the game by the developers. Nothing you can do about it, you can’t stop it.

I would shelve this game, if so.

[kehlis]

Re: Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

In a way if you think about it, clutch senarios are basically comeback codes. Attribute bonuses in key situations late in the game...

I actually think this is a fair statement. I've never been a big fan of the clutch component of the game (nor do I believe in any sort of pre-determined scripting).

But I agree that allowing for an artificial burst in a given scenario or time of the game could be perceived as a sort of comeback code.

Where I disagree though is that that happens to teams who are ahead as well. We just don't talk about those situations because a team expanding on their lead wouldn't fall into the "comeback code" category.

[Drty_Windshield]

Re: Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

Yeah, I don't know... but I just finished playing a game where I had a big lead, been pitching great all game, pitcher wasn't tired or anything, and out of nowhere BOOM, it's like the other team couldn't loose. It might have been 10% my fault , but it was for sure 90% a come back that shouldn't of happened. I was so mad I almost quit the game and started over, but I didn't even though I should have.

[countryboy]

Re: Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

Yeah, I don't know... but I just finished playing a game where I had a big lead, been pitching great all game, pitcher wasn't tired or anything, and out of nowhere BOOM, it's like the other team couldn't loose. It might have been 10% my fault , but it was for sure 90% a come back that shouldn't of happened. I was so mad I almost quit the game and started over, but I didn't even though I should have.

Did you view the pitcher/batter analysis tool to assure you weren't pitching guys in a pattern? Make you weren't pitching hitters the same way because how you pitched them earlier was working?

Players will adapt to pitching styles. If you continue to pitch in a pattern or the same way (hard in then soft away) they will pick up those tendencies and adjust.

[Drty_Windshield]

Re: Bug at bat - The ball goes through the bat

Did you view the pitcher/batter analysis tool to assure you weren't pitching guys in a pattern? Make you weren't pitching hitters the same way because how you pitched them earlier was working?

Players will adapt to pitching styles. If you continue to pitch in a pattern or the same way (hard in then soft away) they will pick up those tendencies and adjust.

I mean I'm not blaming the game for being scripted or anything, I just got my *** handed to me. I didn't look, but I always try to change it up a lil bit. I might not have deviated enough, who knows?