Re: 6th Inning Comeback

[shark547]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

I think what it really is for people is that you get conditioned to notice the things that lead to big innings. For me it seems to start with my pitcher missing his spots by a foot all of a sudden. Then I start to feel like things are going off the rails.

Then a fielder doesn't pick a ball up or throws one away just when you think you have worked your way out of it.

Then the tater or double.

I don't think there is a code. It just seems like I know it as soon as it starts and it always plays out in a similar way.

[KnightTemplar]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

I don't think there is a code. It just seems like I know it as soon as it starts and it always plays out in a similar way.

This is what I have never seen. Been playing the game for years. Now, that said, if I decide to pitch on LEGEND I will see a wealth of WTH moments. I’m just not that good with the controller, but I’ve listened to gamers say that even LEGEND is too easy for them. I know, before I start a season I will play to find a comfort zone. I don’t want to win every game, don’t need to finish in first place, etc., just look for a comfortable level that suits my ego and gives me a good game of baseball, win, or lose.

[shark547]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

This is what I have never seen. Been playing the game for years. Now, that said, if I decide to pitch on LEGEND I will see a wealth of WTH moments. I’m just not that good with the controller, but I’ve listened to gamers say that even LEGEND is too easy for them. I know, before I start a season I will play to find a comfort zone. I don’t want to win every game, don’t need to finish in first place, etc., just look for a comfortable level that suits my ego and gives me a good game of baseball, win, or lose.

Since I stopped playing HOF and went down to AS and veteran I have seen a lot less of it. Not sure what being good with a controller has to do with it. Ripken committing 3 errors in 5 games and fielder's not even trying to pick up the ball are out of my control. All happening in the same inning is the issue multiple games in a row.

I never really seen it until recently because in previous years i couldn't play above veteran because of pitch speed. I also never tried fielding myself because it just doesn't control all that well.

I did have some of it in the second game of veteran. Ripken error at 3rd again.....Molitor doesn't even try catching a ball at second....and then to top it off JD Martinez also not trying to catch a ball in left. I am not missing them. The player isn't recognizing the ball and isn't even trying to catch it. It just goes right thru them. I won the game 8-6.

I don't care if I win or lose. I care about uncontrollable things that shouldn't happen. The computer can take an extra base on a ball 2 feet from your guy because you can't get him to react and throw the ball fast. Meanwhile you can't because you can't get your runner to come out of a slow down animation.

There isn't any reason for this to be happening in a game that has been around this long. Lack of user control is only good when things are obvious. Like for instance, if I preload a throw in the OF...and the OF drops the ball..why do I have to redo the throw??? The computer recognizes and runs immediately to take advantage. It is strange how we have total control in the wrong situations, yet we can't take an extra base because we can't get out of an animation. It is inconsistent.

Inconsistency and lack of control are not good game play. Don't get me wrong. I love this game. I play it a lot.

[shark547]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

On another note......the pitcher chosen by the random rotation was Dock Ellis.

I was hoping his stats would be more in depth.

In 62.1 innings he has a 5.05 ERA and only a 1.14 WHIP.

These big innings were all going the same way. It was a clear pattern. This is why people think there is a code.

My games were made worse by the players not trying to catch the ball.

[KBLover]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

I think what it really is for people is that you get conditioned to notice the things that lead to big innings. For me it seems to start with my pitcher missing his spots by a foot all of a sudden. Then I start to feel like things are going off the rails.

Yeah, I've had pitchers suddenly losing command like that. Granted, I play on Classic, so it could be RNG, but either way, I know the pitcher might not have his best stuff anymore. If it's a reliever, I'm making a pitching change.

In that game I posted about earlier, that's how they loaded the bases. A walk on 4 straight pitches too low/in the dirt. Double on a ball down the middle. That's when I had him do an IBB and I got him out of there.

If this is my starter, I get the bullpen going ASAP, have him throw max effort pitches and try to get any kind of out to get his confidence off the death spiral (his confidence dropping with his pitches dropping as well). When my starter gave up 4 runs on 6 hits right out of the gate, that was going to be the only way I get any length out of him. It was dicey but got 5 out of him even though he left behind.

Stuff will go off the rails sometimes. I guess I just feel thinking "here goes the game making me lose" will make that more a self-fulfilling prophecy than trying to get out of it.

As for having to throw again - I actually like that because I can assess what's happening while he's getting the ball again. Maybe the base I wanted to throw to is no longer valid, especially at Fenway with all the ways the ball bounces. If he's trying to take an extra base on the bobble, I want to throw/relay to that base to try to cut him down.

Last thing I want is having preloaded a throw to 2nd to try to cut down his attempt at a double, my fielder bobbling, and then throwing to second while the batter is on his way to third because I preloaded the throw before the bobble.

[KnightTemplar]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

I never really seen it until recently because in previous years i couldn't play above veteran because of pitch speed. I also never tried fielding myself because it just doesn't control all that well.

I did have some of it in the second game of veteran. Ripken error at 3rd again.....Molitor doesn't even try catching a ball at second....and then to top it off JD Martinez also not trying to catch a ball in left. I am not missing them. The player isn't recognizing the ball and isn't even trying to catch it. It just goes right thru them. I won the game 8-6.

I don't care if I win or lose. I care about uncontrollable things that shouldn't happen. The computer can take an extra base on a ball 2 feet from your guy because you can't get him to react and throw the ball fast. Meanwhile you can't because you can't get your runner to come out of a slow down animation.

.

Are you saying you use AUTO field? Is that right?

I use AUTO field MANUAL throw with throw cancellation off. I can honestly say I’ve never seen what you are describing by either myself, or the CPU. Not even trying to catch the ball, CPU taking an extra base on a ball two feet from my fielder, outfielders not even trying to catch the ball.....on AUTO, right.

Hmm, dunno what to say. My controller comment was a general comment regarding some gamers ability, e.g,. Manual fielding. I would play like a clown if I tried manual fielding.

[shark547]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

I think I figured out what is going on here. You can look back at box scores in Diamond Dynasty. I am missing 3 of the 4 games Ellis pitched. I bet there were server issues and things weren't syncing correctly. Maybe that is why players weren't trying to catch the ball. That might explain why I was missing pitches by a mile too.

[shark547]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

No I am playing manual fielding. If I was playing auto I wouldn't have it happen. it doesn't happen to the computer at all.

[shark547]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

Yeah, I've had pitchers suddenly losing command like that. Granted, I play on Classic, so it could be RNG, but either way, I know the pitcher might not have his best stuff anymore. If it's a reliever, I'm making a pitching change.

In that game I posted about earlier, that's how they loaded the bases. A walk on 4 straight pitches too low/in the dirt. Double on a ball down the middle. That's when I had him do an IBB and I got him out of there.

If this is my starter, I get the bullpen going ASAP, have him throw max effort pitches and try to get any kind of out to get his confidence off the death spiral (his confidence dropping with his pitches dropping as well). When my starter gave up 4 runs on 6 hits right out of the gate, that was going to be the only way I get any length out of him. It was dicey but got 5 out of him even though he left behind.

Stuff will go off the rails sometimes. I guess I just feel thinking "here goes the game making me lose" will make that more a self-fulfilling prophecy than trying to get out of it.

As for having to throw again - I actually like that because I can assess what's happening while he's getting the ball again. Maybe the base I wanted to throw to is no longer valid, especially at Fenway with all the ways the ball bounces. If he's trying to take an extra base on the bobble, I want to throw/relay to that base to try to cut him down.

Last thing I want is having preloaded a throw to 2nd to try to cut down his attempt at a double, my fielder bobbling, and then throwing to second while the batter is on his way to third because I preloaded the throw before the bobble.

I would agree to certain extent. When a 3rd baseman drops the ball with no one on the only thing that happens is delaying the player from picking it up and throwing it. When my OF is at the wall and drops the ball and I have preloaded to the cut off guy I am not changing that.

I am new to fielding too so a lot of the time I don't recognize a drop or error right away. I used to use Auto all the time because of the fielding. Playing OF always seems to be an adventure. I am doing better with it for the most part.

Some of this stuff was exacerbated by the other things and I am pretty sure it is an internet/server issue.

[shark547]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

Are you saying you use AUTO field? Is that right?

I use AUTO field MANUAL throw with throw cancellation off. I can honestly say I’ve never seen what you are describing by either myself, or the CPU. Not even trying to catch the ball, CPU taking an extra base on a ball two feet from my fielder, outfielders not even trying to catch the ball.....on AUTO, right.

Hmm, dunno what to say. My controller comment was a general comment regarding some gamers ability, e.g,. Manual fielding. I would play like a clown if I tried manual fielding.

Haha! That is exactly how I feel when it is happening. Thing is I want to field. It brings me back to when I played so I take great pride in playing defense well. Maybe I should play some offline modes and see if the same things happen. I would bet they won't.

[KnightTemplar]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

Haha! That is exactly how I feel when it is happening. Thing is I want to field. It brings me back to when I played so I take great pride in playing defense well. Maybe I should play some offline modes and see if the same things happen. I would bet they won't.

Ah, I thought you had said you never tried fielding yourself. Yeah, I dunno about the online stuff and never will try it. I’m ticked that they messed w/bunting (off line) to appease the $online$ cheaters. Anyway, good luck, it’s an awesome game.

[Smallville102001]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

Agreed.

The average, based on fangraphs data pulling 2017 pitching data and starters only with a minimum of 100 IP, was 5.7 IP/GS

Only one pitcher averaged 7 IP per start, Corey Kluber.

Six innings should be a good benchmark for a decent or better outing.

That said, it also depends on pitch counts and how the OP pitches.

Based on Unconventional Stats' data (sadly, 2016, but I doubt the trend has changed much) the average is 16-17 pitches per inning. So if using the usual 100-pitches guideline, that's 5-6 innings.

If you have pitchers that are economical with pitches (high command, lower K's, induce early contact, etc), that could result in fewer pitches per inning, maybe that get stretched out to another inning. Shaving even 3 pitches per inning could buy an "extra" inning if your pitcher can stay "on schedule" with his pitch totals (no high-stress inning, etc)

This is good to know because i am a casual baseball fan so i didn't know that starters where not lasting 6 innings any more on average. That just sounds low. In the past and i dont mean like that long ago i think most pitches where averaging like 6.3 innings per start or something. The reason i say that is that if a starter is able to start 33 games in a season at 6 innings per start that would get you to 198 innings meaning you would only need to average just a little over 6 to get to 200 innings in a year. Yes i know that 200 is not easy but i think a big reason for guys not getting 200 innings was more injures then having to average just over 6 innings has it is not easy to go a seasons with out missing at least a few starts but i guess that has changed some more the last few years ago. So the average per start is 5.7 when i thought it was more like 6.3 or about a extra 2 less outs recorded per start then i would have thought.

[KBLover]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

This is good to know because i am a casual baseball fan so i didn't know that starters where not lasting 6 innings any more on average. That just sounds low. In the past and i dont mean like that long ago i think most pitches where averaging like 6.3 innings per start or something.

I think it's because bullpens are no longer the domain of just "failed starters" but there's actually more nasty guys being developed/becoming strong relievers.

So the idea seems to be take the starters out before they get in trouble because they are throwing on fumes and bring in a parade of fireballers and other nasty guys to shut the door.

Used to be the Setup man and Closer were the only good relievers. So, starters went longer to try to avoid MR. Now those guys are getting decent in their own right...perhaps as a result of the "hard cap" 100 pitch counts these days, somehow has to pitch those innings, might as well get good arms and not just pitchers too bad to be starters.

[Caulfield]

Re: 6th Inning Comeback

This is good to know because i am a casual baseball fan so i didn't know that starters where not lasting 6 innings any more on average. That just sounds low. In the past and i dont mean like that long ago i think most pitches where averaging like 6.3 innings per start or something. The reason i say that is that if a starter is able to start 33 games in a season at 6 innings per start that would get you to 198 innings meaning you would only need to average just a little over 6 to get to 200 innings in a year. Yes i know that 200 is not easy but i think a big reason for guys not getting 200 innings was more injures then having to average just over 6 innings has it is not easy to go a seasons with out missing at least a few starts but i guess that has changed some more the last few years ago. So the average per start is 5.7 when i thought it was more like 6.3 or about a extra 2 less outs recorded per start then i would have thought.

I think it's because bullpens are no longer the domain of just "failed starters" but there's actually more nasty guys being developed/becoming strong relievers.


So the idea seems to be take the starters out before they get in trouble because they are throwing on fumes and bring in a parade of fireballers and other nasty guys to shut the door.


Used to be the Setup man and Closer were the only good relievers. So, starters went longer to try to avoid MR. Now those guys are getting decent in their own right...perhaps as a result of the "hard cap" 100 pitch counts these days, somehow has to pitch those innings, might as well get good arms and not just pitchers too bad to be starters.

This is the legacy of the LaRussa-Eckersley Effect. With pitching staffs going from 10 to 12-13, the average starter just doesn't need the risk of going through the lineup 1 more time.
But there will still be elite guys like Kershaw who has averaged 6.7 innings in 11 years.
And if you look just at his peak years 2010-2016, he averaged 7 innings even.