Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

[Baseball Purist]

Re: Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

I believe many play on Auto not because the fielding is no good, but due to the fact it is 100% ratings based, and we are not screwing up plays the fielder would have made due to our own errors, not the game's. Most who Auto I am confident are because they want that true to life stat in the field. It is also less stressful to me now that I finally switched when 42 recommended it to me, and you still have to make the throws count.

I was afraid it would take a lot away from the game, because I actually liked the weight of the fielding this year, however, I found I am enjoying the games more, due to the smoother animations (since I am not messing up the branches), more animation variety due to ratings based routes/catches/plays, and more true to life routes the players will take on the ball (routes that a lot would misjudge or not take). It leaves me with more focus on my pitching and hitting game.

I think your last point illustrates my point. On manual, you dont have the same chance or ability of triggering certain animations that you need. Ive lost count of the number of times ive been penealized or had a blunder because the incorrect animation was triggered or in the case this year, no animation was triggered at all. Ive tried auto fielding and noticed immediately the smoothness. This should also be the case for manual fielding and its not.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

I think your last point illustrates my point. On manual, you dont have the same chance or ability of triggering certain animations that you need. Ive lost count of the number of times ive been penealized or had a blunder because the incorrect animation was triggered or in the case this year, no animation was triggered at all. Ive tried auto fielding and noticed immediately the smoothness. This should also be the case for manual fielding and its not.

It is going to be very hard in a baseball game, and I am unsure it can be done, to have that overall smoothness with full control. When one has full control (without branching like some other games in the past), you had a gross twitchy arcady looking fielding mechanic. There is just too much going on animation wise in baseball, and to have variety with said animations so it is not the same bland ones over and over again, would be having to gut the post control branch out, and that would just look ugly to me.

You can see in other sports games that do not have that branching system, and the players look robotic and twitchy, or when they do have some momentum animations added to soften the twitch, it is just the same foot-plant animation 100% of the time. Dull.

They are constantly refining the system every year it feels. It has definitely been better than years past, and they do work on it every year it seems. But baseball, again, is a tough one with animations concern/look.

[Caulfield]

Re: Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

The closest I want the Show to be like Madden is for the Show name retired & rebranded as Maddon.

[Baseball Purist]

Re: Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

It is going to be very hard in a baseball game, and I am unsure it can be done, to have that overall smoothness with full control. When one has full control (without branching like some other games in the past), you had a gross twitchy arcady looking fielding mechanic. There is just too much going on animation wise in baseball, and to have variety with said animations so it is not the same bland ones over and over again, would be having to gut the post control branch out, and that would just look ugly to me.

You can see in other sports games that do not have that branching system, and the players look robotic and twitchy, or when they do have some momentum animations added to soften the twitch, it is just the same foot-plant animation 100% of the time. Dull.

They are constantly refining the system every year it feels. It has definitely been better than years past, and they do work on it every year it seems. But baseball, again, is a tough one with animations concern/look.

I'm fine with animations the way they are right now. For the most part, they look good. I'm just saying, I wish animations would cue in specific scenarios. How many times have we all seen a ball hit deep to SS, and his reaction not be appropriate for the situation. Perhaps he double taps his throw or tries to take a couple of steps before the throw, when it should be a quick plant and rifle to first. That shouldn't be ratings based on IF the animation triggers, but rather if he's able to complete the throw to first.

However, my main gripe with fielding isn't even animations right now. I understand theres limitations. It's stuff like the below on why I've seen many switch to auto. I've posted these before. Plays like this can be game breakers for many.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IRvD4h_JPnU" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kSsJFN_qcRo" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

I'm fine with animations the way they are right now. For the most part, they look good. I'm just saying, I wish animations would cue in specific scenarios. How many times have we all seen a ball hit deep to SS, and his reaction not be appropriate for the situation. Perhaps he double taps his throw or tries to take a couple of steps before the throw, when it should be a quick plant and rifle to first. That shouldn't be ratings based on IF the animation triggers, but rather if he's able to complete the throw to first.

However, my main gripe with fielding isn't even animations right now. I understand theres limitations. It's stuff like the below on why I've seen many switch to auto. I've posted these before. Plays like this can be game breakers for many.

I will agree, it still needs refinement, and I am sure they are aware and are striving to do so.

That first video looks like the player cause that animation due to heading one way, then turing the player completely around the opposite way (at the last second) on a bloop hit that would literally cause a real person to fall over due to them heading in one direction, then spinning on their back leg pivot and falling over (branch trigger) due to the low bloop.

The second one, yeah, that definitely needs more attention to the catch branch trigger radius, however, it is a delicate balance of giving the player more control, and still leaving room for the branching animation. Then if one is too far away, it would look awkward for it to trigger a catch branch and 'suck up the ball'. Seems in that case the pursuit angle was a little off, and there was probably no animation (in the repertoire) for that angle of the player and the ball maybe?

[bcruise]

Re: Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

I will agree, it still needs refinement, and I am sure they are aware and are striving to do so.

That first video looks like the player cause that animation due to heading one way, then turing the player completely around the opposite way (at the last second) on a bloop hit that would literally cause a real person to fall over due to them heading in one direction, then spinning on their back leg pivot and falling over (branch trigger) due to the low bloop.

The second one, yeah, that definitely needs more attention to the catch branch trigger radius, however, it is a delicate balance of giving the player more control, and still leaving room for the branching animation. Then if one is too far away, it would look awkward for it to trigger a catch branch and 'suck up the ball'. Seems in that case the pursuit angle was a little off, and there was probably no animation (in the repertoire) for that angle of the player and the ball maybe?

Agree on the second one - I'm not saying it's okay that things like that happen, but I understand why they probably do in the current system. I've gotten used to just continuing to move in the direction my fielder's initial lunge takes him, and it usually leads me to the path of the ball and a smooth fielding animation. If I try to deviate from that (especially on hard-hit balls), things happen like what is shown in that video - although I understand charging the ball in an attempt to throw the 2B runner out at home on the base hit.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

I believe many play on Auto not because the fielding is no good, but due to the fact it is 100% ratings based, and we are not screwing up plays the fielder would have made due to our own errors, not the game's. Most who Auto I am confident are because they want that true to life stat in the field. It is also less stressful to me now that I finally switched when 42 recommended it to me, and you still have to make the throws count.

I was afraid it would take a lot away from the game, because I actually liked the weight of the fielding this year, however, I found I am enjoying the games more, due to the smoother animations (since I am not messing up the branches), more animation variety due to ratings based routes/catches/plays, and more true to life routes the players will take on the ball (routes that a lot would misjudge or not take). It leaves me with more focus on my pitching and hitting game.

Could not have said it better myself.

Obviously on DD we all manual field. But offline Franchise, this is also the way I love to play.

Most of us who auto field and manual throw want it to be pure ratings based, and see the entire universe of all the great fielding animations they keep adding.


Sent from Palm Trees and Paradise using Operation Sports

[devils12344]

Re: Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

Meh

I take any newly touted feature for EA sports games (especially Madden) with a grain of salt.

Sounds good, but let's see how it actually translates to the gameplay once the user base gets their hands on it.

Yeah, what he said. When I see a change I will believe it. This will be year 3 I have not bought madden and I feel much better about the game this way.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

Could not have said it better myself.

Obviously on DD we all manual field. But offline Franchise, this is also the way I love to play.

Most of us who auto field and manual throw want it to be pure ratings based, and see the entire universe of all the great fielding animations they keep adding.


Sent from Palm Trees and Paradise using Operation Sports

Best decision I was convinced of going with. It re-sparked a new admiration for this game, and I am having a total blast with Franchise, where as years prior I never touched it, since I exclusively played RttS and some MLB Live games with the daily rosters/lineups. I would do Season Mode, but never completed one, where as now I am determined to complete a full 162 game season this year.

I am enjoying it so much, I have yet to even make my RttS player nor click on that mode yet.

And that mode (RttS) is my all time fave too, so I have not experienced the new changes that I am excited for over years prior. I will dive in soon though (I keep saying that, lol).

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

I'm fine with animations the way they are right now. For the most part, they look good. I'm just saying, I wish animations would cue in specific scenarios. How many times have we all seen a ball hit deep to SS, and his reaction not be appropriate for the situation. Perhaps he double taps his throw or tries to take a couple of steps before the throw, when it should be a quick plant and rifle to first. That shouldn't be ratings based on IF the animation triggers, but rather if he's able to complete the throw to first.



However, my main gripe with fielding isn't even animations right now. I understand theres limitations. It's stuff like the below on why I've seen many switch to auto. I've posted these before. Plays like this can be game breakers for many.



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IRvD4h_JPnU" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kSsJFN_qcRo" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Previous to MLB 17 yeah, it was needing a lot of work. However they have made large strides in terms of Humanity AI. My infielders on 18 have far better awareness of who is running down the line to first than ever before. It still needs refinement but they have drastically improved this aspect of the game.

Its night and day from MLB 16 and all the previous versions.

There are still some legacy issues no doubt, but unlike Madden SDS continually improves the game and the CPU AI where as in Madden it is freaking laughable in comparison.

I find it slightly amusing the title of this thread. EA Tiburon? The Show is on an entirely different level of realism.

Madden may look pretty, but the gameplay is destroyed by The Show and NBA2K for that matter.

And gameplay for me personally is always priority one.




Sent from Palm Trees and Paradise using Operation Sports

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

If Madden is anything like the NHL series, then it's all empty promises anyways. For three years in a row EA swore up and down that they fixed goaltending, even making it a bullet point to try and sell the game. For three years in a row, it didn't matter if I had a 98 rated goalie or a 56 rated one, it was all luck if a save was made or not, all game every game.

EA cares way more about impressing their investors then serving their consumers. I think being rated as the worst company in the world by consumers several years in a row proves that. They are all showmanship and no merit.

[wisdom less13]

Re: Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

Madden 19:

Built from the ground up, Real Player Motion transforms the way you play Madden delivering game-changing control and precision on the field. Realistic character movements provide smooth, immersive animations for adaptive and believable player motion while animation variety creates authentic movement unique to positions and body types.

They've been saying this for years...

[Comduklakis]

Re: Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

I think almost every new feature any company touts needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Whether it's Madden, NBA2k, The Show, etc. they've all shouted about some new feature that has failed to work properly (such as morale in The Show, or 2k or The show touting "new trade logic" every year that still leads to nonsense).

I hope Madden hits on something great, but I will take a wait and see attitude.

As for The Show, plenty of stuff to work on both in gameplay in various modes.

Just off the top of my head:

bunts
balls off the pitcher.
fielding
catcher
wild pitches

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

If Madden is anything like the NHL series, then it's all empty promises anyways. For three years in a row EA swore up and down that they fixed goaltending, even making it a bullet point to try and sell the game. For three years in a row, it didn't matter if I had a 98 rated goalie or a 56 rated one, it was all luck if a save was made or not, all game every game.

EA cares way more about impressing their investors then serving their consumers. I think being rated as the worst company in the world by consumers several years in a row proves that. They are all showmanship and no merit.

I play both Madden and the NHL series. I have fun with the games. But they are arcade like with simulation elements. They are no where near the quality for offline franchise players like The Show and 2K.

Now don’t get me wrong. Madden 18 (starting in February) is IMO the strongest entry in the series in terms of gameplay. And NHL 18 is also a fun game with expansion mode (gameplay feels almost exactly the same to me as NHL 16 which was my last version before getting 18 for $18). The games are fun.

I know some people here feel The Show is going that way (more arcade). But playing 18 every day since it dropped that could not be farther from the truth. I am also playing 2K18 again and it is a joy. Both these sports titles really do a great job for console games in replicating their sports.

Games can always improve. And visually 2K and The Show are not as refined as Madden. And again....to me that’s ok. I rather they focus on AI and gameplay as well as depth inside franchise mode. And 2K and The Show do offer the deepest franchise modes for console sports games IMO. I don’t play FIFA but I have heard great things about the depth of that series franchise mode.

I happen to think this years version of The Show is the most visually stunning version yet on a 4K TV in high framerate or enhanced visual mode mode. The parks are gorgeous, the weather effects (rain, fog, light transitioning) are stunning to me. Love it.

[Comduklakis]

Re: Madden is FINALLY doing it. Time for the show to follow suit

I don't mind that Madden and NHL are more "arcadey" because I don't have the deep in depth understanding of hockey (nowhere near) that is required for simulation and I don't wish to employ the depth of knowledge needed for football. The Show is right in my wheelhouse for combining sim and me being too anal looking for realism. NBA2k, I openly admit I'm bizarrely over the top in trying to micro manage every aspect up to and including using Excelt spreadsheets to keep track of real draft pick trades, and using my own homegrown systems for free agency and progression/regression.