The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

[countryboy]

Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

I didn't say that they completely ignored physics and that it doesn't exist in the game; I just said that the system doesn't rely on physics as much as it should.

Good contact/Good timing should be a damn well hit ball, not a pop fly like it mostly is.

They don't do a good job of explaining how the "Feedback" works. How does that green area determine where the ball lands or where it's hit to? I hardly ever focus on home runs, I could care less, gappers are more rewarding to me. For gappers, it's not necessarily the power that gets the ball there but the position.

There is a video that exists that explains the PCI and how the "feedback" works in regards to it. There is also a video in one of the patch notes (1.10???) that explains the changes to the PCI and feedback.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

Good Timing/Good Contact hits are hardly ever gappers but instead either lineouts or deep fly outs. It just seems the system is so random with how it places hits.

I don't think the system is tailored correctly for physics to be the main driving force, which is honestly cheap. It's really difficult to explain the hitting system because it seems as if it tries to use physics but ultimately relies on RNG to determine the path the ball takes.

I have to completely disagree with the good timing/ good contact statement. This is 100% not my experience.

I see plenty of gappers when i am right on the ball. In fact, for a while i was having the opposite thought. It seemed like almost every time i had good/good it was a double in the gap. My doubles numbers were inflated and i started thinking a about which slider i would eventually need to adjust. I left it alone, waiting for an even bigger sample size, and my doubles eventually settled down to 1.75 per game which is perfect.

If i HAD to pick one concern on the offensive side of the ball, my concern would have been TOO many gappers when i am perfectly on pitches. I even posted several times in different threads early on asking for suggestions on tuning doubles down a bit. It is no longer an issue, and my offensive numbers in every single category are right in line with MLB.

If you are not seeing enough when you make great contact, i would suggest that a slider adjustment to something is necessary, because settings definitely make a difference in this.

Too many times people say "the game does this too much" or "the game does that too much" or "such-and-such is too easy/difficult." Ive seen multiple posts from people saying completely opposite things about hitting or pitching. One person says "x happens way too often in 18", while the other person says "x happens way too rarely in 18". Both players are telling the truth from their own experience and both assume it is the game. Its usually not the game. - thats why people see completly opposite things, and have differing opinions on the Show.

It simply has to do with the individual user's skill level(s), reaction times, etc. regarding different aspects of the game - and the settings and sliders they have chosen to use, to couple with those skills.

[KnightTemplar]

Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

It simply has to do with the individual user's skill level(s), reaction times, etc. regarding different aspects of the game - and the settings and sliders they have chosen to use, to couple with those skills.

BINGO. I cringe every time my brother-in-law comes to my house. He loves baseball and loves this game. I put him on ROOKIE and adjust his sliders accordingly. He just center swings, I pitch everything down the middle and he rarely puts the ball out of the infield. He strikes out about 20 times a game. So, yeah, user skills does actually mean A LOT. Even eye sight (for us old geezers).

[KBLover]

Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

But if RNG wasn't the primary variable in the equation then ratings of players would cease to matter as you would be able to take a very low rated player and put up stats like a Hall of Famer. Ratings/RNG have to matter in simulation sports games, or else they would be nothing more than the likes of MLB Slugfest, NBA Jam, etc...

I think some folks would have preferred the system used in PYS where the cursor is actually a bat and where it hits on that bat and the timing used is determined by you/your skill.

Ratings still mattered in that game. The sweet spot grew or shrunk based on contact rating, making it harder for your skill and to make good contact (this ignores the pitcher ratings how it impacted pitches). Power rating determined the overall velocity on hits, and players had a trajectory rating to influence GB/FB tendency and the types of flies they tended to hit.

Like you said, that's not where The Show goes with hitting. And we know it.

I didn't say that they completely ignored physics and that it doesn't exist in the game; I just said that the system doesn't rely on physics as much as it should.

Good contact/Good timing should be a damn well hit ball, not a pop fly like it mostly is.

Not in my experience it isn't.

Good/Good is a hard hit ball, often over 95 MPH velocity (the MLB criteria for hard contact), and rarely a poor trajectory hit like a pop up. It might be a fly ball caught for an out, but never an IFFB.

That's the province of Good/Weak for me. Maybe Good/Okay on low power hitters with their lower exit velocities.

They don't do a good job of explaining how the "Feedback" works. How does that green area determine where the ball lands or where it's hit to? I hardly ever focus on home runs, I could care less, gappers are more rewarding to me. For gappers, it's not necessarily the power that gets the ball there but the position.

As far as I understand it and seems to play out in my experience watching the CPU (I'm a Directional hitter, so the game doesn't show me where my player puts the PCI - a design decision that looks really terrible now that it matters so much, imo).

The green area is where the swing is level with the ball and tends to create more of a line drive to hard grounder (you might get a ball that's between liner and flyball that's usually a hard hit ball as well).

Venturing a bit above that, you start getting backspin on the ball so more lift - this is where you might get more flyballs that can carry out or over OF heads.

Above that, you're starting to get into trajectories where you only want the power guys to hit and even then it might not be the best trajectory.

And then you're in pop territory above that.

And the reverse is true on the lower end. You go from hard grounder, to more routine that could still have some hair on it, to more the choppers and rollers that could be an issue for different reasons.

Direction is heavily influenced by timing and where in the PCI the ball is located. Closer to the edges are the "end of the bat" or "off the label" contact tends to happen.

Combined, these things determine the direction of the batted ball. Velocity is a combo of the "zone" and the player's power rating, and if you did a power or contact swing.

That's how I understand and consider the system.

[Padgoi]

Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

I think a lot of this ongoing debate is slider and difficulty based as well. I'm in complete agreement with the OP on that I feel hitting doesn't replicate real life at all and the game is still ENTIRELY too ratings based and not user skill based, but I think a lot of this is based on sliders and difficulty. Everyone who knows me knows I play on legend with my own posted sliders and I constantly tinker with them to get realistic results but even then I see way too much randomness in hitting. I've learned not to waste my time with this debate here because you're going to constantly get the group that defends the game to the end of the world who literally drown out anyone who criticizes anything about the game. Simply not worth the keyboard button presses.

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[countryboy]

Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

I think a lot of this ongoing debate is slider and difficulty based as well. I'm in complete agreement with the OP on that I feel hitting doesn't replicate real life at all and the game is still ENTIRELY too ratings based and not user skill based, but I think a lot of this is based on sliders and difficulty. Everyone who knows me knows I play on legend with my own posted sliders and I constantly tinker with them to get realistic results but even then I see way too much randomness in hitting. I've learned not to waste my time with this debate here because you're going to constantly get the group that defends the game to the end of the world who literally drown out anyone who criticizes anything about the game. Simply not worth the keyboard button presses.

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But yet you took the time to type this out???

[Padgoi]

Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

But yet you took the time to type this out???

Took 2 minutes. Nice try, countrollboy.

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[countryboy]

Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

Took 2 minutes. Nice try, countrollboy.

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I've learned not to waste my time with this debate here because you're going to constantly get the group that defends the game to the end of the world who literally drown out anyone who criticizes anything about the game. Simply not worth the keyboard button presses.

So its not worth the keyboard button presses but its worth 2 minutes of your time

[Padgoi]

Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

Exactly.

So its not worth the keyboard button presses but its worth 2 minutes of your time

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[JMKA2024]

Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

I hate to be negative about this game because it has brought me so much entertainment over the years, but I feel as if hitting has gotten much more unrealistic in this game. I've tried every camera angle, setting, and slider set and can't find anything that feels true.

[KnightTemplar]

Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

I've learned not to waste my time with this debate here because you're going to constantly get the group that defends the game to the end of the world who literally drown out anyone who criticizes anything about the game. Simply not worth the keyboard button presses.

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Groan. So the gamers not having a problem are those overpowering defenders of the game that drown you and others out (although you continue to post), and those who are having problems are the righteous? Give it a break. Your post was fine until you interjected that trash. So why bother your keyboard?
Stick to your word and don't press the buttons, geez.

[phantomblackgoat]

Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I absolutely despise RNG in sports game.

RNG animations is one of the reasons I came to despise Madden, but luckily it seems new leadership is taking things back to a more classical look with less animations. Madden 16 was the worst at this. Depending on what happens, there are certain percentage chances of an animation happening, that animation determined the outcome of the play. It was annoying and was more for show rather than letting the player have fun and make the call.

For this I will compare Madden 16 to NCAA 14. In 16, on a jump ball the player will either press Y, X, or A I believe. Aggressive, RAC, or Possession catch. Each with their own set of animations to trigger. Beyond that, nothing. The AI does everything else: jumping, positioning, holding onto the ball, etc...

To NCAA 14, I had my receiver Curtis Mullins(literally the greatest receiver of all time. Broke every single NCAA receiving record) who was 99 in every skill. I was excellent at positioning with him as well. So in terms of a jump ball, Mullins would come down with it about 96% of the time. Not due to animations but due to multiple factors outside of RNG: my positioning, the player's SPEC Catch rating, catch rating, jump rating, the opposing player's severe mismatch, and possibly a nicely positioned pass.

Jump over to MLB: The Show 18, there is a strong sense of RNG. Not necessarily with the pitching, I think the pitching is fairly realistic. I watch a lot of baseball and I don't necessarily see a lot of difference between the real world and the Show's world when I pitch to the AI. Hitting on the other hand, is sporty. Good Timing/Good Contact hits are hardly ever gappers but instead either lineouts or deep fly outs. It just seems the system is so random with how it places hits.

I don't think the system is tailored correctly for physics to be the main driving force, which is honestly cheap. It's really difficult to explain the hitting system because it seems as if it tries to use physics but ultimately relies on RNG to determine the path the ball takes.

Couldn't agree more on the points you made about Madden. I think the game really went downhill when the games became more animation-focused. I really didn't have a problem with the different catch varieties they added in 16. Yes, aggressive catches were extremely overpowered and heavily skewed in the receiver's favor, but I don't get why they couldn't just tweak the coding to make it less forgiving. The part that annoyed me most was how broken ball carrier moves became in 17, jukes and spin moves became pointless because the animation was too slow to pull off against the CPU. Meanwhile the CPU could juke and spin you out of your shoes at will on All-Madden difficulty. It really made it feel cheap when the AI burned you for an 80+ yard TD simply because the defender you were controlling got locked into an animation where he would always miss the tackle. 18 Kind of fixed this but the rest of the game was just a complete mess, especially with AI logic and quarterback accuracy being so hit-or-miss.

[phantomblackgoat]

Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

Groan. So the gamers not having a problem are those overpowering defenders of the game that drown you and others out (although you continue to post), and those who are having problems are the righteous? Give it a break. Your post was fine until you interjected that trash. So why bother your keyboard?
Stick to your word and don't press the buttons, geez.

No, the problem is the people that will vehemently defend something from any outside criticism and attack the people who do it no matter how well-constructed and non-hostile the criticism may be. It's called fanboyism and it's never a good thing. I'm not saying you're one of them, but they do exist. I (and many others who have criticized this game) want to see it succeed, but without criticism there would be no improvement in the world. Are there people out there who complain just for the sake of complaining? Yes, but I would wager they're a pretty small minority.

[countryboy]

Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

No, the problem is the people that will vehemently defend something from any outside criticism and attack the people who do it no matter how well-constructed and non-hostile the criticism may be. It's called fanboyism and it's never a good thing. I'm not saying you're one of them, but they do exist. I (and many others who have criticized this game) want to see it succeed, but without criticism there would be no improvement in the world. Are there people out there who complain just for the sake of complaining? Yes, but I would wager they're a pretty small minority.

The thing is, nobody was vehemently defending the game in this thread, it was an open discussion about varying opinions.

[KnightTemplar]

Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

No, the problem is the people that will vehemently defend something from any outside criticism and attack the people who do it no matter how well-constructed and non-hostile the criticism may be. It's called fanboyism and it's never a good thing. I'm not saying you're one of them, but they do exist. I (and many others who have criticized this game) want to see it succeed, but without criticism there would be no improvement in the world. Are there people out there who complain just for the sake of complaining? Yes, but I would wager they're a pretty small minority.

Countryboy didn’t even play ‘17, if I remember correctly, and he’s sarcastically called ‘controlboy’? No one comes here that I can recall and shouts people down. People in this thread offer pros/cons. The word fanboy is childish used as this guy does. Or maybe he doesn’t get the attention he thinks he deserves.