The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

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  • Vanilla_Gorilla
    Rookie
    • May 2018
    • 420

    #91
    Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

    Originally posted by KnightTemplar
    ^ thank you.

    The boards are really starting to rehash stuff that's been rehashed after it was rehashed. Prior to being rehashed.
    That's because of 2 reasons:

    1. It's fun to talk about and theorize about.

    2. It gives people confirmation that they didn't lose because of fair outcomes but because the AI decided to bs them.

    In comebacks, it's likely a mix of both sometimes. Sometimes more one than other and vice versa. It's just randomness.

    In my times playing sports games(1998-2018 Madden, 6 NBA 2k games, 2 MLB games, 06-14' NCAA) I've seen some pretty crazy stuff. Some obvious AI bs induced comebacks(more in Madden than any other game) and just some randomness that gave the AI advantages(NCAA was the best at this).

    Comment

    • countryboy
      Growing pains
      • Sep 2003
      • 52819

      #92
      Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

      Yep comeback AI is alive and well.

      See this box score for proof:
      Attached Files
      I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

      I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


      Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

      Comment

      • KnightTemplar
        MVP
        • Feb 2017
        • 3282

        #93
        Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

        Originally posted by Vanilla_Gorilla

        2. It gives people confirmation that they didn't lose because of fair outcomes but because the AI decided to bs them.
        Have fun then.

        Comment

        • Vanilla_Gorilla
          Rookie
          • May 2018
          • 420

          #94
          Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

          Originally posted by countryboy
          Yep comeback AI is alive and well.

          See this box score for proof:
          LOL!!!!

          I'm interested in watching how that played out

          As I type this the Indians just acquired Brad Hand. Is Andrew Miller hurt or something?

          Comment

          • countryboy
            Growing pains
            • Sep 2003
            • 52819

            #95
            Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

            For those that believe there is comeback AI code, a few questions:

            1) Have you ever won a game that you were leading?

            2) If answer is yes to question #1, then what triggered comeback AI code to happen in the game you lost due to comeback AI?

            3) If answer is no to question #1, then why isn't everyone losing a game they once led?

            If the belief is that Comeback AI is coded into the game, then something has to trigger it, correct? What triggers it?
            I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

            I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


            Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

            Comment

            • Vanilla_Gorilla
              Rookie
              • May 2018
              • 420

              #96
              Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

              Originally posted by countryboy
              For those that believe there is comeback AI code, a few questions:

              1) Have you ever won a game that you were leading?

              2) If answer is yes to question #1, then what triggered comeback AI code to happen in the game you lost due to comeback AI?

              3) If answer is no to question #1, then why isn't everyone losing a game they once led?

              If the belief is that Comeback AI is coded into the game, then something has to trigger it, correct? What triggers it?
              1) Yep.

              2) The logic to the questions is already meant to frame the question in a way that already disproves the comeback code. Everyone's experiences are different.

              The answer is simply this:

              There is no way to accurately disprove nor prove a comeback code exists without accessing the AI programming. However, in one of my previous posts I argued that the AI is likely programmed to obtain any and all advantages it can have at its disposal in order to grab an advantage; as it is in many sports games. It is fair logic but the execution winds up being cheap and unrealistic.

              Comment

              • countryboy
                Growing pains
                • Sep 2003
                • 52819

                #97
                Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

                Originally posted by Vanilla_Gorilla
                1) Yep.

                2) The logic to the questions is already meant to frame the question in a way that already disproves the comeback code. Everyone's experiences are different.

                The answer is simply this:

                There is no way to accurately disprove nor prove a comeback code exists without accessing the AI programming. However, in one of my previous posts I argued that the AI is likely programmed to obtain any and all advantages it can have at its disposal in order to grab an advantage; as it is in many sports games. It is fair logic but the execution winds up being cheap and unrealistic.
                The developers have stated there is no comeback code. That's about as accurate as you can get.
                I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

                I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


                Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

                Comment

                • Vanilla_Gorilla
                  Rookie
                  • May 2018
                  • 420

                  #98
                  Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

                  Originally posted by countryboy
                  The developers have stated there is no comeback code. That's about as accurate as you can get.
                  The rest of that paragraph explains what people could be meaning as a "comeback code"

                  Comment

                  • NolanRyansSnowmonkey
                    MVP
                    • Jun 2016
                    • 1354

                    #99
                    Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

                    I am having to write this in a hurry, so forgive me if it is confusing, jumbled, or repetitive...

                    Last time i played a full season (2016) there was all this talk then about comeback codes. I went through every single box score that year (played franchise games) and compiled every time one team or the other was ahead/behind, and how many times the team that was behind came back and won. And i separated it between CPU and User. The number of CPU comebacks was close to league average for coming from behind.

                    That data is buried in a notebook somewhere so i dont have numbers. So this basically means nothing right now. But it was enough to show me that the game does not cheat, and plays fine. (Which i felt anyway, but people were discussing it, and i dont always just go by feelings)

                    If someone can show the CPU coming back an inordinate amount of times over a large sample size, then i want to see it.

                    If its not actually about the 'number' of comebacks, but instead that they are somehow falsely manufactured, i would ask why? Why would they even need to do this if the game plays realistically in every other inning?

                    -If the game (somehow) manages to produce an average amount of comebacks, then that means the game plays just fine until.... the Human is behind at some unknown point. And then the comebacks either:

                    A) happen organically

                    -Or-

                    B) (at least some) are falsely manufactured.

                    The questions are-

                    A)- IF the game is playing fine at every other point in the game, - wouldn't the game (if it simply continued to play the same) automatically organically produce an average number of comebacks? So why would there EVER be a need to falsly manufacture them? (It would just need to keep the same logic/physics etc in inning 9 as inning 1, to produce the correct results over time.)

                    B)- IF the game IS falsely manufacturing an average amount of comebacks - then the game must be incapable of producing realistic play at all
                    and it is all falsly manufactured. (Because otherwise, It would just need to keep the same realistic logic/physics in inning 9 as inning 1, to produce the correct results over time).

                    If scenario A is the case, then we should see exactly what we see now - Irritating comebacks at different points throughout the season, that make you want to break your controller. Just like MLB.

                    If scenario B is the case, then we should ask ourselves why we are even playing this game, if the game is clearly not (at any point in the game) organically realistic.

                    ---(i.e. If it us incapable of organically playing realistically in inning 9, then it is incapable playing realistically in inning 1 - so why even play it at all if we are looking for realism?)

                    Why would the game have to falsly generate comebacks when it doesn't need to?

                    And, if it does falsly generate them when it doesn't need to, what would be the motivation of devs to take the time and effort to program this to happen?

                    I would also suggest not judging games by "feelings" because baseball routinely tells lies (in the short term).
                    Last edited by NolanRyansSnowmonkey; 07-19-2018, 01:36 PM.

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                    • KnightTemplar
                      MVP
                      • Feb 2017
                      • 3282

                      #100
                      Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

                      Comment

                      • AUTiger1
                        MVP
                        • Oct 2008
                        • 2413

                        #101
                        Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

                        Look, I love The Show. I've been playing it since 2006 and have bought it every single year. It's the one game I buy religiously every year without fail. This is the first time I've ever said anything about a comeback code and I only say it out of frustration for how quickly the game can flip around. That game I mentioned yesterday, Mets scored all those 8 runs in that 1 inning and the rest of the game I held them scoreless and they only had 4 or 5 hits. That's the kind of stuff that is so frustrating. I had 1 bad inning that I couldn't do anything right because everything was hit in exactly the right spot for it to end up as a hit. I'd rather give up line drive screamers everywhere than these lucky miraculous hits.
                        Atlanta Braves
                        Atlanta Falcons
                        Auburn Tigers
                        Detroit Red Wings
                        Winnipeg Jets

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                        • NolanRyansSnowmonkey
                          MVP
                          • Jun 2016
                          • 1354

                          #102
                          Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

                          Originally posted by AUTiger1
                          and I only say it out of frustration for how quickly the game can flip around .
                          That's all that needs to be said, and i really think 99% of people here are ok with posting their frustrations with how a game turned out. Its when that kneejerk easy excuse comes out "comeback code" that people start rolling their eyes. We all play it and experience extremely frustrating moments and games. It is also part of makes winning so sweet.

                          When MLB pitchers yell and pump their fists after getting out of a bases loaded jam, its not because they have a flawless record, and never given up a cheap hit in that situation. This is the reason. They know what it feels like to give up a bases clearing double, or a series of cheap bloop hits that scores several runs.

                          I say embrace the frustration. Come on OS and post how angry you are that you just got beat fair and square (or "unlucky").

                          Yell at your TV. Hit a pilllow. Snap into a Slim Jim. Whatever you have to do.

                          Then, when you shut the CPU down in the 8th inning with the bases loaded, while every voice in your head was whispering "The comeback codes gonna gitcha!!", you can pump your fists and make your neighbors wonder if something is wrong with you. Then come on here and post that too.

                          Comment

                          • KnightTemplar
                            MVP
                            • Feb 2017
                            • 3282

                            #103
                            Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

                            Originally posted by NolanRyansSnowmonkey
                            That's all that needs to be said, and i really think 99% of people here are ok with posting their frustrations with how a game turned out. Its when that kneejerk easy excuse comes out "comeback code" that people start rolling their eyes. We all play it and experience extremely frustrating moments and games. It is also part of makes winning so sweet.

                            When MLB pitchers yell and pump their fists after getting out of a bases loaded jam, its not because they have a flawless record, and never given up a cheap hit in that situation. This is the reason. They know what it feels like to give up a bases clearing double, or a series of cheap bloop hits that scores several runs.

                            I say embrace the frustration. Come on OS and post how angry you are that you just got beat fair and square (or "unlucky").

                            Yell at your TV. Hit a pilllow. Snap into a Slim Jim. Whatever you have to do.

                            Then, when you shut the CPU down in the 8th inning with the bases loaded, while every voice in your head was whispering "The comeback codes gonna gitcha!!", you can pump your fists and make your neighbors wonder if something is wrong with you. Then come on here and post that too.
                            Exactly. I'm playing a game right now. 4th inning I'm up 2-0, but my pitcher is struggling with his control and I have to sort of groove some pitches to get his breaking balls over the plate.

                            Walk, single and Votto takes a high fastball and deposits it in the right field stands. Yikes. Was that the comeback code? I do a mound visit, get a ground out, walk a batter (I use generated pitch count), Shebler deposits a 1-2 fastball into the LF stands. Is THAT an accumulation of the comeback code?

                            When does this click in? I knew my pitcher was struggling with his control, but it was too early for me to make a bullpen move (it isn't now, lol), but there wasn't anything mysterious about this. It was GREAT. I may even lose this game, or do I run off to the OPTIONS menu and start messing with the sliders, etc? Hell, I might comeback, if it allows me (facetious).

                            I'm glad I embrace the game, glad I don't do a bunch of theory stuff every time something comes up that leads to a defeat. I even find myself thinking comeback code (chuckling to myself) when I'm leading and I load the bases with nobody out, then get a rare pitcher/catcher/first double play and then a pop out to snuff out the rally.

                            Great game.
                            Last edited by KnightTemplar; 07-19-2018, 05:37 PM.

                            Comment

                            • Caulfield
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Apr 2011
                              • 10986

                              #104
                              Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

                              so SDS had the resources to keep the comeback code in 18 but couldnt find the wherewithal to put season mode in? NOW I am ******. at least now I can quit blaming the DD guys for season mode removal and place blame where it properly belongs: the comeback code.
                              OSFM23 - Building Better Baseball - OSFM23

                              A Work in Progress

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                              • KnightTemplar
                                MVP
                                • Feb 2017
                                • 3282

                                #105
                                Re: The Disturbing Trend I've Noticed About MLB: The Show

                                Originally posted by Caulfield
                                so SDS had the resources to keep the comeback code in 18 but couldnt find the wherewithal to put season mode in? NOW I am ******. at least now I can quit blaming the DD guys for season mode removal and place blame where it properly belongs: the comeback code.
                                Always a man of reason and.......never mind.

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