Batting Feedback: Let's Talk About This

[Vanilla_Gorilla]

After about 50-100 games so far using Zone with Flick-Analog. The Batting Feedback has gotten on my last nerve.

I'll break down the issues I've seen with it in 2 categories.

1. Strategic Relevance


The strategic relevance of the Batting Feedback makes it almost completely useless. Aside from maybe sometimes figuring out how you missed a pitch, it often does nothing for you. That is because of a couple of reasons.

1. The Player's "Vision" is almost completely useless to you. The bat's position is the single most important thing you need to know, and it doesn't show that. I wanna know how my player is swinging on a certain pitch, where the bat is, and where the pitch was located on the bat. That way I can better determine where my player is swinging.


2. Pitch Break. The feedback can show you how fast, where, and what type of pitch it was but doesn't show you the pitch break. Why? I have no clue. An inch of break on a fastball can be the difference between a triple off the left-field wall and a groundout to 2nd base. Every pitcher is different and it is crucial to know your opposition's tendencies, that includes how many inches of break are on their pitches.
"But you don't need the pitch break to hit a pitch!"

True, but isn't being able to locate the pitch one of the most important aspects of hitting? Pitch break is crucial to that.

"They can't show the pitch break!"

They do it in replays mid-game. Why not on the batting feedback?

Much like Strategy games themselves, User Interfaces are supposed to give you as much information as possible while taking up as little room as possible. SDS can definitely take a step-up in this regard, and it wouldn't be a difficult one at that.


2. Accuracy

The feedback has been growing far more inconsistent for me lately. Why? I have no clue.

Replay will often show outcomes INSANELY different than what feedback shows.

Josh Donaldson 3 inches above a ball with Just Late timing

Outcome? Home run.
Replay showed Donaldson was early on the pitch and squared it up perfectly.

That is just one example, just yesterday(feedback exited before I could get a picture) Wellington Castillo had a chopping groundout to 2nd Base.

Replay showed he was just under the ball and had Good Contact and Good Timing.

What??? Exactly. It is extremely unreliable at times.

How it was THAT far off, I have no idea. The system has so far shown itself to be more inconsistent and a nuisance to use rather than helpful. It's feedback should be exactly the same as replay shows.

Feedback is supposed to give you an accurate reflection of your player's swing and how you missed the pitch or hit it, etc....

It doesn't do that. It only gives you just enough information to get by with but even then, it lacks strategic usefulness. It completely leaves out crucial information that can make a player's batting strategy much more efficient while also giving the player more control over their hitting.

I think what we have is just a skeleton of a system. They can do better than this. Just my 2 cents.

[Caulfield]

Re: Batting Feedback: Let's Talk About This

...It only gives you just enough information to get by with...

I guess Sony figures this enough.


I never use the feedback anymore & just play it by ear. Which probably explains why my hitting skill is close to the same as it was in MLB 10.
But damn if I still havent had a ****-tonne of fun batting the last 10 plus years. And at the end of the day thats what matters most to me. Would it be great if the feedback was more useful? Absolutely. It would also be great if I could edit everything about a player, if we had create-a-stadium, more stat tracking, rotating schedules, custom divisions, carry-over rosters, season mode, a uniform vault to use in franchise for whatever team we want, on & on & on. There really is no limit on the imagination of what could be added. Hopefully SDS will eventually get around to each of these, including expanded feedback that matches what actually happens in-game. So for now, feedback is off and I let the Show play to its strengths, of which, IMO feedback definitely isnt up there. For me, at least.

[countryboy]

Re: Batting Feedback: Let's Talk About This

.

It doesn't do that. It only gives you just enough information to get by with but even then, it lacks strategic usefulness. It completely leaves out crucial information that can make a player's batting strategy much more efficient while also giving the player more control over their hitting.

I'm with Caufield in that I don't pay attention to the feedback. I actually don't have it off, too lazy to turn it off I guess..LOL, but I really don't pay attention to it. I know if I was late, early and how I made contact with the pitch based on the result.

In regards to having a tool that provides the hitter with information that will make his batting strategy more efficient, that is what I use the PITCHER/BATTER ANALYSIS tool for. It allows me to see how a pitcher is pitching a certain hitter, see if there is a pattern, etc...

My only issue with it, is that its buried in the menus and not easily accessible with the d-pad as it once was. Hoping they move it back.

[KnightTemplar]

Re: Batting Feedback: Let's Talk About This

I guess Sony figures this enough.


I never use the feedback anymore & just play it by ear. Which probably explains why my hitting skill is close to the same as it was in MLB 10.
But damn if I still havent had a ****-tonne of fun batting the last 10 plus years. And at the end of the day thats what matters most to me. Would it be great if the feedback was more useful? Absolutely. It would also be great if I could edit everything about a player, if we had create-a-stadium, more stat tracking, rotating schedules, custom divisions, carry-over rosters, season mode, a uniform vault to use in franchise for whatever team we want, on & on & on. There really is no limit on the imagination of what could be added. Hopefully SDS will eventually get around to each of these, including expanded feedback that matches what actually happens in-game. So for now, feedback is off and I let the Show play to its strengths, of which, IMO feedback definitely isnt up there. For me, at least.

Please stop having fun. This is a non-fun thread zone.....sumtin' like that.

[Vanilla_Gorilla]

Re: Batting Feedback: Let's Talk About This

I guess Sony figures this enough.


I never use the feedback anymore & just play it by ear. Which probably explains why my hitting skill is close to the same as it was in MLB 10.
But damn if I still havent had a ****-tonne of fun batting the last 10 plus years. And at the end of the day thats what matters most to me. Would it be great if the feedback was more useful? Absolutely. It would also be great if I could edit everything about a player, if we had create-a-stadium, more stat tracking, rotating schedules, custom divisions, carry-over rosters, season mode, a uniform vault to use in franchise for whatever team we want, on & on & on. There really is no limit on the imagination of what could be added. Hopefully SDS will eventually get around to each of these, including expanded feedback that matches what actually happens in-game. So for now, feedback is off and I let the Show play to its strengths, of which, IMO feedback definitely isnt up there. For me, at least.

Thing is, I'm trying to learn how to get better, how to read pitches better, how to square up pitches better, etc...

I can't do that without having a good feedback system telling me what I missed and what got me.

For example: I just had an at bat with Jose Abreu against Daniel Norris. Norris throws a high fastball right in the middle of the plate, as I predicted he would. I square it up perfectly and get a flyout to right. About 30-40 yards from 1st base I'd say. I checked replay to see what the heck went wrong anddddddd

Replay showed Abreu was under it and WAY late. How the feedback missed that, I have no idea but that's an egregious mistake.

That to me, honestly, just makes the system seem lazy.

[countryboy]

Re: Batting Feedback: Let's Talk About This

Thing is, I'm trying to learn how to get better, how to read pitches better, how to square up pitches better, etc...

I can't do that without having a good feedback system telling me what I missed and what got me.

If you're trying to get better at reading pitches and getting your timing down, I would recommend spending some time in practice mode.

For example: I just had an at bat with Jose Abreu against Daniel Norris. Norris throws a high fastball right in the middle of the plate, as I predicted he would. I square it up perfectly and get a flyout to right. About 30-40 yards from 1st base I'd say. I checked replay to see what the heck went wrong anddddddd

Replay showed Abreu was under it and WAY late. How the feedback missed that, I have no idea but that's an egregious mistake.

That to me, honestly, just makes the system seem lazy.

Considering the ball went to right field with Abreu batting (RH) and you were way late on a pitch right in the middle of the plate, I would say that the feedback was correct in that you were late on the pitch and probably did fly out to right.

One thing that is confusing to me is that you say that you're trying to learn how to get better and want the feedback to help you. When you are seemingly late on a pitch given the hit type that took place and the feedback system supports that, you argue with it????

Seems to me that the feedback is providing you with the correct feedback, you just don't want to believe it.

Again, I would recommend going into practice mode. That way its a controlled environment where you can see the same exact pitch over and over again and get your timing down.

[KBLover]

Re: Batting Feedback: Let's Talk About This

I like the feedback system and I've been using it even more with the new swing and bat/ball contact screen they added.

I don't use replay. It's been said before that the replay isn't an accurate representation of what happened, that's why the bat "goes through" the ball on swings and misses, etc.

I don't find the Timing/Contact/Swing display inaccurate. In fact, as a Directional player, it gives me an idea of why I got only "Okay" timing since they decided to not show where the hitter put the PCI on Directional, a design decision I still do not understand. It didn't change anything....except remove info from the player.

For example, one contact was only "okay" and it showed that he hit the ball close to the label. So that tell ms he put his PCI too far outside the ball (probably fooled on the movement). There's not a lot I can do about it, but at least I see why he didn't hit it all that well.

Also, maybe it's my eyes but sometimes I'm like "how is that early" but then I look at the swing animation...I was early, maybe quite early. So I know, wait another beat after I feel like I should swing.

So, while I would always welcome improvements and if it's screwy for other interfaces, I'd want it fixed for those players, I don't think it's awful.

One thing that is confusing to me is that you say that you're trying to learn how to get better and want the feedback to help you. When you are seemingly late on a pitch given the hit type that took place and the feedback system supports that, you argue with it????

Seems to me that the feedback is providing you with the correct feedback, you just don't want to believe it.

My thoughts exactly.

Late swing, ball went oppo, that's a later or "inside the ball" swing (if the latter, then some slicing spin is likely on the ball).

What's wrong? Did you just think you were on time? I can understand that (I mention sometimes I can't believe I'm early), but I don't think the feedback is lying to me.

Timing is just one component of the swing and JL/JE is often as good, sometimes better, depending on the hitter's profile. Contact quality is just one component to a swing. If you hit a ball about 220 feet (40 yd past 1B, which is 90 feet), and you did indeed "square it up", then your trajectory wasn't great (which means you probably didn't square it up unless the hitter's swing plane was that upper cut).

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Batting Feedback: Let's Talk About This

If you're trying to get better at reading pitches and getting your timing down, I would recommend spending some time in practice mode.



Considering the ball went to right field with Abreu batting (RH) and you were way late on a pitch right in the middle of the plate, I would say that the feedback was correct in that you were late on the pitch and probably did fly out to right.

One thing that is confusing to me is that you say that you're trying to learn how to get better and want the feedback to help you. When you are seemingly late on a pitch given the hit type that took place and the feedback system supports that, you argue with it????

Seems to me that the feedback is providing you with the correct feedback, you just don't want to believe it.

Again, I would recommend going into practice mode. That way its a controlled environment where you can see the same exact pitch over and over again and get your timing down.

My thoughts exactly. That seems like a really bad example of bad feedback. It sounds like it worked perfectly.

[Caulfield]

Re: Josh Donaldson & Welington Castillo

I'm also not sure its reasonable to expect similar results from nearly identical feedback info when comparing Donaldson & Castillo. Donaldsons power combined with the unknown pitch type could easily been a homer vs Castillos groundout with lesser power & contact rating, plus was it a completely different type pitch?

[Vanilla_Gorilla]

Re: Batting Feedback: Let's Talk About This

If you're trying to get better at reading pitches and getting your timing down, I would recommend spending some time in practice mode.



Considering the ball went to right field with Abreu batting (RH) and you were way late on a pitch right in the middle of the plate, I would say that the feedback was correct in that you were late on the pitch and probably did fly out to right.

One thing that is confusing to me is that you say that you're trying to learn how to get better and want the feedback to help you. When you are seemingly late on a pitch given the hit type that took place and the feedback system supports that, you argue with it????

Seems to me that the feedback is providing you with the correct feedback, you just don't want to believe it.

Again, I would recommend going into practice mode. That way its a controlled environment where you can see the same exact pitch over and over again and get your timing down.

Oops, I forgot to mention what Feedback showed.

Feedback showed the ball was right in the middle of the PCI with Good contact and Good timing. The replay showed that Abreu was late and under.

Feedback missed that and instead showed I squared up the ball perfectly.

[Vanilla_Gorilla]

Re: Josh Donaldson & Welington Castillo

I'm also not sure its reasonable to expect similar results from nearly identical feedback info when comparing Donaldson & Castillo. Donaldsons power combined with the unknown pitch type could easily been a homer vs Castillos groundout with lesser power & contact rating, plus was it a completely different type pitch?

You're getting confused on what I'm telling you, that's fine.

On the Donaldson homerun, feedback had shown that Donaldson was WELL under the ball. I mean, I could get a ruler and put it up against the feedback screen on my TV and show that he was about 3 inches under it. That's a flyout or a popout, or just a plain whiff. It also showed that he was late on it.

REPLAY showed that he squared it up perfectly and actually swung early.

The feedback was egregiously off.

On Castillo's hit.

Feedback showed he was under it with Good Contact and Good Timing

The outcome was a chopping ground ball to 2nd base.

[kehlis]

Re: Batting Feedback: Let's Talk About This

Thing is, I'm trying to learn how to get better, how to read pitches better, how to square up pitches better, etc...

I in no way mean this sarcastically. If you are trying to get better at reading pitches and squaring up better, I highly recommend not looking at feedback all together, it's likely confusing you more.

Just get some at bats in without paying attention to it, start a low mode and move up until you are at your comfort level between ease and difficulty. Once you are at that place where you are comfortable with reading pitches, speed, trajectory, etc, then you can start looking at feedback if you wish.

Myself honestly, I ignore it all together.

[KnightTemplar]

Re: Batting Feedback: Let's Talk About This

After about 50-100 games so far using Zone with Flick-Analog. The Batting Feedback has gotten on my last nerve.

Why allow this? Your last nerve. This game is meant to be enjoyed. For years we've had to do some workarounds, no problem. Look at the rocket bunts...there's actually a couple good workarounds. Even the comeback code was finally put to rest the way BCruise explained to test it.

You posted that fielding need to be completely overhauled, but, from the posts, you really didn't know what assisted fielding was and what it was supposed to do. You want a free agent overhaul, but it was explained that some of the stuff you wanted was available, but you didn't seem to know this. You attributed the out of control foul balls to possibly the devs putting it in if you were ahead in the game. The list sort of goes on and on. Basically the game sucks.

People are trying to help you, but it's not certain you're listening. I would shelve this game in a minute if I was coming on here and lamenting that this needs to be "stripped", this is to be redone, that I'm a wits end.

[Vanilla_Gorilla]

Re: Batting Feedback: Let's Talk About This

I in no way mean this sarcastically. If you are trying to get better at reading pitches and squaring up better, I highly recommend not looking at feedback all together, it's likely confusing you more.

Just get some at bats in without paying attention to it, start a low mode and move up until you are at your comfort level between ease and difficulty. Once you are at that place where you are comfortable with reading pitches, speed, trajectory, etc, then you can start looking at feedback if you wish.

Myself honestly, I ignore it all together.

It is confusing me more. Like how I squared up that pitch perfectly and timed it perfectly according to feedback but replay showed that I was late and under it. That just confuses me and I can't learn anything from it.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Batting Feedback: Let's Talk About This

Why allow this? Your last nerve. This game is meant to be enjoyed. For years we've had to do some workarounds, no problem. Look at the rocket bunts...there's actually a couple good workarounds. Even the comeback code was finally put to rest the way BCruise explained to test it.

You posted that fielding need to be completely overhauled, but, from the posts, you really didn't know what assisted fielding was and what it was supposed to do. You want a free agent overhaul, but it was explained that some of the stuff you wanted was available, but you didn't seem to know this. You attributed the out of control foul balls to possibly the devs putting it in if you were ahead in the game. The list sort of goes on and on. Basically the game sucks.

People are trying to help you, but it's not certain you're listening. I would shelve this game in a minute if I was coming on here and lamenting that this needs to be "stripped", this is to be redone, that I'm a wits end.

This is exactly why i have not even tried to help. Templar nailed it. It, yet again, seems to me like help isn't being sought. It seems more like wanting to find someone to agree with you that the entire game us broken. To me, it wastes these people's time who actually take time and effort to detail out how to help you, and makes it fruitless.

I wrote this post yesterday but didn't push send because apparently it would be viewed by some on here as condescending or rude etc, but here it is. If it hurts any feelings i apologize in advance:

At the risk of this being misunderstood as being condescending, i will ask this question - is there honestly anything good about MLB the Show? I really mean that.

Because catchers are morons, fielding needs an overhaul, baserunning is bugged, free agency is total cheese, quick manage logic is disastrous, you dont get franchise notifications, players aren't urgent enough, and now, PCI/Feedback is broken and somehow actually even getting worse as you go along. Did i miss anything? Because that is basically every aspect of the Show.

I think i actually remembering you saying you liked your bullpen or something one time.

I wouldn't doubt that some of these problems may exist in the game to some degree or another. Especially if you haven't found the right settings for your skill level. But when you are constantly saying the game is bugged/broken in just about every conceivable area, yet you continue to play the game, it becomes increasingly more difficult for people who have read your other posts/threads to take posts like this seriously at all. Even if there might be validity to it.

It's honestly getting old to me, day after day. If it is rude to point out I apologize.