The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

[DonkeyJote]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

I haven't played my franchise since the patch. But I recorded a lot of games pre-patch, specifically looking at discipline. And the CPU, at default contact, was dead on with real life swing and chase rates. If you lower contact, they chase more, and vice versa. Major League hitters chase 27-35% of pitches thrown out of the zone. In my testing (28 games), the CPU chased 28.5% of the time. In real life, 14.2-18% of all pitches are called strikes. For the CPU in those games, it was 14.8%. The CPU plate discipline is pretty good imo. This is on Hall of Fame.

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[AUTiger1]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

Maybe I just suck, but I struggle at times using meter pitcher. Struggle enough that it's a challenge and I accept the challenge. Overall I get frustrated sometimes at the A.I.'s ability to lay off anything close and foul off everything else.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

Any input method can be fine. But using Classic, I can’t make Steve Matz pitch like Steve Carlton, no matter what.

If you master an input like meter or pinpoint, you can outperform a player’s real life skills.

And here’s the funny part. Guys use sliders to adjust how the game reacts to whatever input they use. People actually complain that when they perform better than the real life player, and then use sliders to make it so that they can change nothing, but now get the results the want.

That’s fine. People should play how they want. But it seems ludicrous to, year after year, try to force some arcade input to act EXACTLY like Classic pitching. EXACTLY.

They make it it easier or harder, tweaking and tweaking and tweaking to get that good balance that never happens. Well, it does if you use Classic pitching. You can tell me that because you adjusted sliders to make each pitch appropriately accurate, that you are “playing the game” more than the guy that just hits “A”. But I don’t think going through a convoluted, multi-step process that is different for every person to make hitting “A” more complicated.

Because, if you are going to tweak sliders until you get sim results, why not press “A”? You are literally playing Paint-By-Numbers, and acting like artists. When you tweaked the sliders to make the result exactly the same as real life, you just ruined the point.

It’s different if you are playing head to head, or even playing solo in Diamond Dynasty, because there are no sliders. You should use whatever input mode makes you perform best. Because it is not about realism, it’s about outperforming your opponents.

But Solo Play is different. For me, using Classic Pitching, Directional Hitting, Assisted Fielding, and Button Throwing is the perfect Simcade balance. That doesn’t make using other inputs is bad. But if all you are going to do is tweak sliders to get the same results, why bother?

[MetsFan16]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

Any input method can be fine. But using Classic, I can’t make Steve Matz pitch like Steve Carlton, no matter what.



If you master an input like meter or pinpoint, you can outperform a player’s real life skills.



And here’s the funny part. Guys use sliders to adjust how the game reacts to whatever input they use. People actually complain that when they perform better than the real life player, and then use sliders to make it so that they can change nothing, but now get the results the want.



That’s fine. People should play how they want. But it seems ludicrous to, year after year, try to force some arcade input to act EXACTLY like Classic pitching. EXACTLY.



They make it it easier or harder, tweaking and tweaking and tweaking to get that good balance that never happens. Well, it does if you use Classic pitching. You can tell me that because you adjusted sliders to make each pitch appropriately accurate, that you are “playing the game” more than the guy that just hits “A”. But I don’t think going through a convoluted, multi-step process that is different for every person to make hitting “A” more complicated.



Because, if you are going to tweak sliders until you get sim results, why not press “A”? You are literally playing Paint-By-Numbers, and acting like artists. When you tweaked the sliders to make the result exactly the same as real life, you just ruined the point.



It’s different if you are playing head to head, or even playing solo in Diamond Dynasty, because there are no sliders. You should use whatever input mode makes you perform best. Because it is not about realism, it’s about outperforming your opponents.



But Solo Play is different. For me, using Classic Pitching, Directional Hitting, Assisted Fielding, and Button Throwing is the perfect Simcade balance. That doesn’t make using other inputs is bad. But if all you are going to do is tweak sliders to get the same results, why bother?

I pitch with pinpoint and tweak sliders. Why? Because classic pitching is boring. I want to feel like I’m out there painting corners or hanging breaking balls because I nailed/messed up my pinpoint.

Sitting there pressing X is boring for me personally, I understand it is the best way to utilize player ratings but I am looking to execute my pitches as well as get accurate statistics.


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[countryboy]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

Any input method can be fine. But using Classic, I can’t make Steve Matz pitch like Steve Carlton, no matter what.

If you master an input like meter or pinpoint, you can outperform a player’s real life skills.

And here’s the funny part. Guys use sliders to adjust how the game reacts to whatever input they use. People actually complain that when they perform better than the real life player, and then use sliders to make it so that they can change nothing, but now get the results the want.

That’s fine. People should play how they want. But it seems ludicrous to, year after year, try to force some arcade input to act EXACTLY like Classic pitching. EXACTLY.

They make it it easier or harder, tweaking and tweaking and tweaking to get that good balance that never happens. Well, it does if you use Classic pitching. You can tell me that because you adjusted sliders to make each pitch appropriately accurate, that you are “playing the game” more than the guy that just hits “A”. But I don’t think going through a convoluted, multi-step process that is different for every person to make hitting “A” more complicated.

Because, if you are going to tweak sliders until you get sim results, why not press “A”? You are literally playing Paint-By-Numbers, and acting like artists. When you tweaked the sliders to make the result exactly the same as real life, you just ruined the point.

It’s different if you are playing head to head, or even playing solo in Diamond Dynasty, because there are no sliders. You should use whatever input mode makes you perform best. Because it is not about realism, it’s about outperforming your opponents.

But Solo Play is different. For me, using Classic Pitching, Directional Hitting, Assisted Fielding, and Button Throwing is the perfect Simcade balance. That doesn’t make using other inputs is bad. But if all you are going to do is tweak sliders to get the same results, why bother?

A few things here:

* I play using default sliders with meter pitching and am able to get realistic results. I don't dominate pitching, I don't lead the league in strikeouts, hits allowed, hr allowed, ERA, etc...In fact I'd say I average around mid-pack in all pitching categories combined

* You make it seem as though mastering the meter is simple. Its not. The meter changes speed from pitcher to pitcher based on their pitching motion and changes with the same pitcher between windup and stretch. I would say that out of an average of 130-140 pitches thrown per game, I may average 10-15% of those as perfect release/accuracy pitches.

* Even if by chance you could/did master meter pitching, you cannot 100% triumph/override player ratings. Its not possible as user input is only a part of the equation that is used to determine the outcome of any one individual pitch. The game simply isn't designed for this to happen, at least on SIMULATION play style settings

Classic pitching may be your preferred method for a simulation experience, but you're reasoning as to why those who choose meter/pinpoint pitching mechanics are "less sim" and playing an "arcade" style is full of fallacies and ignorance.

[KnightTemplar]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

Some guys can’t hit on ROOKIE….some guys dominate on LEGEND. There is really no answer. The game has choices, sliders, settings. Every gamer has the chance to figure it out for themselves. Then there’s the gamers ability with the controller.
I personally don’t believe it’s the game, but the gamer. Pretty obvious by the sometimes head scratching results that are posted on these boards.

[loso_34]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

A few things here:

* I play using default sliders with meter pitching and am able to get realistic results. I don't dominate pitching, I don't lead the league in strikeouts, hits allowed, hr allowed, ERA, etc...In fact I'd say I average around mid-pack in all pitching categories combined

* You make it seem as though mastering the meter is simple. Its not. The meter changes speed from pitcher to pitcher based on their pitching motion and changes with the same pitcher between windup and stretch. I would say that out of an average of 130-140 pitches thrown per game, I may average 10-15% of those as perfect release/accuracy pitches.

* Even if by chance you could/did master meter pitching, you cannot 100% triumph/override player ratings. Its not possible as user input is only a part of the equation that is used to determine the outcome of any one individual pitch. The game simply isn't designed for this to happen, at least on SIMULATION play style settings

Classic pitching may be your preferred method for a simulation experience, but you're reasoning as to why those who choose meter/pinpoint pitching mechanics are "less sim" and playing an "arcade" style is full of fallacies and ignorance.

You are doing a disservice to yourself and lying to us when you state you can’t override ratings using meter/pulse pitching. It only takes a few pitches to get used to the timing of a new pitcher. An average meter user can take a guy with very low control and paint corners we’ve all seen this.

There’s nothing realistic about aiming pitches and finding the strike zone consistently with anyone.

[countryboy]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

You are doing a disservice to yourself and lying to us when you state you can’t override ratings using meter/pulse pitching. It only takes a few pitches to get used to the timing of a new pitcher. An average meter user can take a guy with very low control and paint corners we’ve all seen this.

There’s nothing realistic about aiming pitches and finding the strike zone consistently with anyone.

Actually I'm not, but ok...

[JoshC1977]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

I've played about 10 games so far as the White Sox on default All-Star.

2 pages worth of conversation without acknowledging the most critical point of this post.

10 whole games...

[AUTiger1]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

A few things here:

* I play using default sliders with meter pitching and am able to get realistic results. I don't dominate pitching, I don't lead the league in strikeouts, hits allowed, hr allowed, ERA, etc...In fact I'd say I average around mid-pack in all pitching categories combined

* You make it seem as though mastering the meter is simple. Its not. The meter changes speed from pitcher to pitcher based on their pitching motion and changes with the same pitcher between windup and stretch. I would say that out of an average of 130-140 pitches thrown per game, I may average 10-15% of those as perfect release/accuracy pitches.

* Even if by chance you could/did master meter pitching, you cannot 100% triumph/override player ratings. Its not possible as user input is only a part of the equation that is used to determine the outcome of any one individual pitch. The game simply isn't designed for this to happen, at least on SIMULATION play style settings

Classic pitching may be your preferred method for a simulation experience, but you're reasoning as to why those who choose meter/pinpoint pitching mechanics are "less sim" and playing an "arcade" style is full of fallacies and ignorance.

Thank you for this response and explaining things much better than I could have. Personally I kinda felt attacked in that post because I use meter pitching and it was like I can't play the way I want to and get realistic results unless I use classic pitching.

[AUTiger1]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

You are doing a disservice to yourself and lying to us when you state you can’t override ratings using meter/pulse pitching. It only takes a few pitches to get used to the timing of a new pitcher. An average meter user can take a guy with very low control and paint corners we’ve all seen this.

There’s nothing realistic about aiming pitches and finding the strike zone consistently with anyone.

This is simply not true. Thank God I don't need the approval of a few self righteous posters in this message board to enjoy playing this video game in a way that makes it enjoyable for me.

[COMMISSIONERHBK9]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

just curious has anyone notice that hitting in nl is harder then the al. or is it me. i was hitting very well but lately with the last two patches, my hitting has taken a turn to the worse. i use dynamic and i was up to all star plus and now im on rookie plus. any tips on hitting. i first use timing then directional then zone. i am all over place

[PVarck31]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

just curious has anyone notice that hitting in nl is harder then the al. or is it me. i was hitting very well but lately with the last two patches, my hitting has taken a turn to the worse. i use dynamic and i was up to all star plus and now im on rookie plus. any tips on hitting. i first use timing then directional then zone. i am all over place

I think you just need to pick something and stick it out. Constantly changing input methods can mess with your timing or your controller skills.

Hitting being easier or harder in a certain league is probably not what's happening. I think sometimes all of this is in our heads. We see someone say something about how this changed or whatnot and then you start to see things that aren't there.

I have not noticed any difference in hitting since the patch. Maybe it's because I haven't been looking for it. I'm not trying to invalidate people's experiences, but I think a lot of times, and this goes for every sports game, we hear what the patch is supposed to do, or not do, and then we are hyperaware of every little thing, from at-bat to even from every pitch.

I also think we need to widen our sample size. Again, not trying to invalidate anyone's opinions on any of this, it's just that some people talk about playing one or two games, or even a few innings and say something has changed. We need to give ourselves more of a sample size a lot of the time. Recency bias can be a powerful thing. As well as seeing someone else's experience, then it's in your head so again, you might be more likely to see things that aren't really there.

I've literally noticed no change whatsoever since the patch. All my games are playing out in a similar fashion as they were before the patch.

[jcar0725]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

I think you just need to pick something and stick it out. Constantly changing input methods can mess with your timing or your controller skills.

Hitting being easier or harder in a certain league is probably not what's happening. I think sometimes all of this is in our heads. We see someone say something about how this changed or whatnot and then you start to see things that aren't there.

I have not noticed any difference in hitting since the patch. Maybe it's because I haven't been looking for it. I'm not trying to invalidate people's experiences, but I think a lot of times, and this goes for every sports game, we hear what the patch is supposed to do, or not do, and then we are hyperaware of every little thing, from at-bat to even from every pitch.

I also think we need to widen our sample size. Again, not trying to invalidate anyone's opinions on any of this, it's just that some people talk about playing one or two games, or even a few innings and say something has changed. We need to give ourselves more of a sample size a lot of the time. Recency bias can be a powerful thing. As well as seeing someone else's experience, then it's in your head so again, you might be more likely to see things that aren't really there.

I've literally noticed no change whatsoever since the patch. All my games are playing out in a similar fashion as they were before the patch.

Same for me 100%.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: The AI does not know how to be patient at the plate

* Even if by chance you could/did master meter pitching, you cannot 100% triumph/override player ratings. Its not possible as user input is only a part of the equation that is used to determine the outcome of any one individual pitch. The game simply isn't designed for this to happen, at least on SIMULATION play style settings.

I can't speak to meter or the other inputs. But with Pinpoint, you can absolutely override the pitcher's control attributes. Even on the Simulation Play Style settings, walks are incredibly rare using that method on default sliders (even legend).

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