23 CPU lineup logic is not fixed

[ninertravel]

Re: 23 CPU lineup logic is not fixed

the first thing logically speaking I want to try out in 23 is making sure the cpu slots an actual closer at closer and not just the highest rated reliever. I don't have a problem if the cpu decides to play a better player in the outfield (who for instance might be listed as a leftfielder) and play him at RF over a lower rated ''true'' RF'er.

but Closer is very different. let the guy designated closer, close.
maybe its time to get rid of the generic reliever title and have closers, middle men, setup men, and long relief/spot starter

*shrug*

the BP is completely outdated for the show the way it is.. I reckon most MLB teams use 2 or 3 closers a week now on a rotation. the way SUP are used in the show are really a joke. the CPU only uses them if they have a 1 or 2 run lead. they never used them if behind by 1 or a tied game. 6 man rotations, BP games it is a mess the way the show has the BP for 2023 MLB. ifind myself managing the CPU BP but the stupid BP within 1 pitch will sit down who I was going to warm up and go to 'their go to logic' so unless I am managing their BP after every pitch to stop them making moves it can't be fixed.


on a completely separate note BP pitchers NEVER get injured too in a game only in simmed games randomly, maybe they need to add in random injures so after the game you get a message that 'someone was getting elbow tightness after the game and will need 2 weeks off'

Injures don't just happen during a game to pitchers it is after a game.

as for Lineup logic. what does help is primary positions. the Ai logic is primary position 1st base = lets go for highest rated player who is 1st base into lineup. I don't even think it goes by OBP for her leads off. it seems to love people like IKF leading off for yankees by default just because he hits singles a lot as a 300 AVG with 0 power. it won't go by OBP at all.

[soxfanbs91]

Re: 23 CPU lineup logic is not fixed

that doesn't do anything. all you are doing is making the CPU think they should use them even more. no matter what settings you make or sliders changes the CPU will ALWAYS bring in the LR pitcher if your start can't go 5 innings. it doesn't matter how damm tired they are no matter what they will do it. and then they have to face 3 batter min even if they are brought in on red stamina.

and the way the BP is used in the rotations menu you can't NOT have a guy as a LR I wish there was a way you could have everyone as a MRP or SUP but there isn't

6 man rotations would be nice too because they are useless now because the CPU will always use your LR who is suppose to be your 6th guy and be gassed by the time you can even give them a spot start.. really screws the angels all this lineup and BP logic the most.

Yeah, they should just let you have as many middle relief guys as you want without having a long reliever. Also, the option for a 6th starter.

[JoshC1977]

Re: 23 CPU lineup logic is not fixed

the first thing logically speaking I want to try out in 23 is making sure the cpu slots an actual closer at closer and not just the highest rated reliever.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here; and I think this may boil down to how we go about playing franchise. I know you often play "1 and done" seasons and I think this may be why our opinions diverge a bit.

I'm a multi-year franchise guy, so over time, established "closers" change as some guys develop and others regress. I definitely DO NOT want a team using some 73 overall "closer" closing-out games when they have a former setup guy (who is like an 89 overall) that is still stuck in setup or middle relief.

What's interesting is that this doesn't always happen (in situations where they are closer in overall to one another) - and I believe closer overalls are calculated a bit differently than they are for relievers. If the CPU is taking that into account under-the-hood, it definitely shows a decent semblance of logic (with performance also playing a significant role).

[jcar0725]

Re: 23 CPU lineup logic is not fixed

The strange bullpen logic does drive me crazy, I also have no clue how to fix it, or how easy/hard it is to fix.

When it comes to closers, I definitely don't like that the CPU often puts the best reliever in as the closer. But it also seems really difficult to get the CPU bullpen to think like a human, especially when a great relief pitcher isn't just automatically the closer in real life. Some guys thrive in the non-closer role.

But like Josh said, I also don't want them to put a 70 rated closer in as their CP when they have better options. Somehow they would have to differentiate ratings between closers and non closers?

[Caulfield]

Re: 23 CPU lineup logic is not fixed

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here; and I think this may boil down to how we go about playing franchise. I know you often play "1 and done" seasons and I think this may be why our opinions diverge a bit.

I'm a multi-year franchise guy, so over time, established "closers" change as some guys develop and others regress. I definitely DO NOT want a team using some 73 overall "closer" closing-out games when they have a former setup guy (who is like an 89 overall) that is still stuck in setup or middle relief.

What's interesting is that this doesn't always happen (in situations where they are closer in overall to one another) - and I believe closer overalls are calculated a bit differently than they are for relievers. If the CPU is taking that into account under-the-hood, it definitely shows a decent semblance of logic (with performance also playing a significant role).

yeah, I'd probably like the closer situation as is if I played more multiple seasons than my usual one and done

[ninertravel]

Re: 23 CPU lineup logic is not fixed

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here; and I think this may boil down to how we go about playing franchise. I know you often play "1 and done" seasons and I think this may be why our opinions diverge a bit.

I'm a multi-year franchise guy, so over time, established "closers" change as some guys develop and others regress. I definitely DO NOT want a team using some 73 overall "closer" closing-out games when they have a former setup guy (who is like an 89 overall) that is still stuck in setup or middle relief.

What's interesting is that this doesn't always happen (in situations where they are closer in overall to one another) - and I believe closer overalls are calculated a bit differently than they are for relievers. If the CPU is taking that into account under-the-hood, it definitely shows a decent semblance of logic (with performance also playing a significant role).

The CPU doesn't take any ratings into account with the closer rule. if you put a starter in the CP role in the rotation screen the CPU will go to that pitcher 99.9% of the time EVERY save opportunity in the 9th it doesn't care if you are a CP or RP or SP as if you are in that CP slot that is it 'go to' logic.

it really makes the CP position 100% useless and I have no idea why that role is even bothered to be in the game because of it other then the all star game voting. all pitchers should just be RP and you slot whoever you want as a CP in that position. I just edit teams so nobody is a CP at all. it isn't needed serves no purpose other then all star votes for that logic.

what needs to be a MUST option is to see the BP stamina on the rotation screen, we can't even see their stamina unless its inside a game, this would be handy so we could edit the rotation screen and see 'oh he has no energy today he can't close lets move someone else to that spot so the stupid CPU doesn't go to a gassed guy in the 9th again.

[SFCFeagin]

Re: 23 CPU lineup logic is not fixed

Controlling all teams means you should be able to control lineups & rotations. They still focus too much on the online, packs & junk I don't even look at. They have never put a lot of focus on improving offline franchise, so this is not a shocker again.

[Ragnar84]

Re: 23 CPU lineup logic is not fixed

Based on past SDS comments on franchise mode, they aren’t able to do much with the mode anymore. I might be wrong but that has resulted in them only making “logic fixes” each year. Yet the lineup and BP logic issues haven’t been fixed despite feedback every season to the devs at SDS. So if they’ve known this for years leading up to NG consoles why didn’t they scrap the old franchise mode and move everything to MTO so it was ready by 2021? Take2 did it with nba2k mynba mode when the NG consoles came out so that proves that if you have ideas and a plan it can be done. Force feeding franchise players towards MTO would be fine if they didn’t do it in a half assed-manner. Franchise is at its limit for future additions, yet it still has so many logic and tuning flaws, besides being empty and shallow. So we’re stuck in purgatory where the MTO has new features and room to add, while franchise mode only gets under the hood updates, but they won’t scrap it and focus on building on e mega franchise mode. I assume a lot of the logic errors discussed would be fixed in MTO. Their strategy of having two incomplete modes is frustrating because neither one of them fulfill the needs of a franchise player right now.


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[Caulfield]

Re: 23 CPU lineup logic is not fixe, thesjtsd

Based on past SDS comments on franchise mode, they aren’t able to do much with the mode anymore.

who ever said that is limited only by their imagination. properly funded, the potential for franchise is unlimited.
I dislike comparing one game with another but I do wish the Show franchise was as deep as NBA2K

[JoshC1977]

Re: 23 CPU lineup logic is not fixed

Their strategy of having two incomplete modes is frustrating because neither one of them fulfill the needs of a franchise player right now.

Correcting the bolded...

"neither one of them fulfill the needs for SOME franchise players right now. "

Now THAT is a true statement. The franchise community is diverse and is made up of players that take contrasting viewpoints as to what aspects of franchise modes are important.

Speaking for myself, and myself only - I honestly don't think the existing franchise mode needs all that much (tweaks yes, but not an overhaul). SDS' approach to franchise is game-driven, not menu screen-driven and they do it really well. It's a well-balanced mode that does not require a gazillion sliders, does not interfere with the storytelling with artificially-contrived elements and is not bogged-down with extraneous menu screens/options. It's easily the most immersive franchise mode out there FOR ME because the outcomes of the games organically drive the storylines. This complements MY needs as I view franchise mode as an RPG and not a universe-creation toolkit (which is NBA 2k's approach - which to me, is absolutely horrific).

I know from your past posts that you and I disagree on what makes a "good" franchise mode. But neither of our opinions are representative of the entire community - which is the ultimate point I am making here. Broad-sweeping statements about what is acceptable (or not acceptable) to the overall franchise community based on our individual biases is not acceptable.

[djflock]

Re: 23 CPU lineup logic is not fixed

[QUOTE=Ragnar84;2050736601]Based on past SDS comments on franchise mode, they aren’t able to do much with the mode anymore. I might be wrong but that has resulted in them only making “logic fixes” each year. Yet the lineup and BP logic issues haven’t been fixed despite feedback every season to the devs at SDS. So if they’ve known this for years leading up to NG consoles why didn’t they scrap the old franchise mode and move everything to MTO so it was ready by 2021? Take2 did it with nba2k mynba mode when the NG consoles came out so that proves that if you have ideas and a plan it can be done. Force feeding franchise players towards MTO would be fine if they didn’t do it in a half assed-manner. Franchise is at its limit for future additions, yet it still has so many logic and tuning flaws, besides being empty and shallow. So we’re stuck in purgatory where the MTO has new features and room to add, while franchise mode only gets under the hood updates, but they won’t scrap it and focus on building on e mega franchise mode. I assume a lot of the logic errors discussed would be fixed in MTO. Their strategy of having two incomplete modes is frustrating because neither one of them fulfill the needs of a franchise player right now.


I personally am not fighting for a whole bunch of extra features. I just want the logic/under the hood things to be corrected ... like the team using a complete bullpen and constructing some sort of reasonable facsimile to a 2023 lineup.

[Ragnar84]

Re: 23 CPU lineup logic is not fixed

https://www.sportsgamersonline.com/g...-for-next-gen/

That's how NBA 2K21 rolled out its Next Gen MYNBA mode in 2021.

The best part about MYNBA, if it's overwhelming and you don't want to play G league games, or scout, or realign the league, or change league rules, or worry about budgets and salaries, you can automate all of it.

My point is that they provide all these micromanaging features in MYNBA for people that want to control everything in their league, while giving the people who don't want to control everything in their league, the option to automate as much as they want.

IMO, that's how you satisfy franchise players, because I'd rather have too much to do than not enough.
My opinion would be different if the option to automate everything wasn't included because then you're forcing everyone to play the same way. Kinda like SDS does with the with the current franchise mode.

[Ragnar84]

Re: 23 CPU lineup logic is not fixe, thesjtsd

who ever said that is limited only by their imagination. properly funded, the potential for franchise is unlimited.
I dislike comparing one game with another but I do wish the Show franchise was as deep as NBA2K

https://youtu.be/VOkkG5dsrs8

[ninertravel]

Re: 23 CPU lineup logic is not fixed

Case in point last night the reds pitcher makes it in 5 innings 'just' but the CPU had the obsession of warming up the LR in the 5th because he was getting tired anything before the 5th ends = warm up LR (and it doesn't matter if their enegey is at 0)

so I try and be smart I sit down the LR they had warmed up and warm up a couple of other pitchers that should be used in.... that does nothing 6th innings comes yay!! the CPU puts in their LR that I sat down because it must stay in the A1 memory of being warmed up.

another bug btw which hasn't been fixed when I do the controller swap trick if the CPU has made a sub and the player is out of position a screen pops up asking that you need to replace a player because they are not a 3B men and warns of the change.. well guess what??? if you hit ignore on that screen (they started doing this screen 2 years ago) and switch your controller back to your team. the scree pops up again with the stupid warning that someone is out of position. and then the game FREEZES UP!!!!! and you can't hit X to continue because it thinks you are the CPUs team therefore no controller assigned to you anymore so you are hard locked frozen and can't hit x on continue. I have been burned by this so many times late in games after substations all because of trying to manage the stupid CPUs BP.

They need to kill that stupid warning screen about a player being out of position they brought it in 2 years ago it is a dumb choice to have brought that in. I don't care if I have a SS playing 3rd and just because he hasn't got 3rd base as a secondly position shouldn't mean that screen popping up annoying me every time and risking a hard lock I have wasted 3 hours of my life the last week on 2 games that hard locked in the 9th innings because of managing the CPU BP with that stupid screen.

[jrp1918]

Re: 23 CPU lineup logic is not fixed

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here; and I think this may boil down to how we go about playing franchise. I know you often play "1 and done" seasons and I think this may be why our opinions diverge a bit.



I'm a multi-year franchise guy, so over time, established "closers" change as some guys develop and others regress. I definitely DO NOT want a team using some 73 overall "closer" closing-out games when they have a former setup guy (who is like an 89 overall) that is still stuck in setup or middle relief.



What's interesting is that this doesn't always happen (in situations where they are closer in overall to one another) - and I believe closer overalls are calculated a bit differently than they are for relievers. If the CPU is taking that into account under-the-hood, it definitely shows a decent semblance of logic (with performance also playing a significant role).

I've always hated the designated closer position in the show. Back in the day I used to go in and change every closer to RP and the game do what it wanted.

I don't really care enough anymore to do it. But its always seemed dumb to have a stand alone closer spot.

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