The Comeback AI thread

[brunnoce]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

lol...I can see the patch creating a whole new debate (actually, around here "argument" would be the more appropriate term) on this.

yeh, my question can potentially open a big can of worms...
maybe i sshould erase it lol...

or i could just let it roll

oh, the boredom of work!

[swaldo]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

yeh, my question can potentially open a big can of worms...
maybe i sshould erase it lol...

or i could just let it roll

oh, the boredom of work!

LOL, they probably reversed comeback ON back to comeback OFF just to mess with you guys.

[brunnoce]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

LOL, they probably reversed comeback ON back to comeback OFF just to mess with you guys.

ahhahaha
thats what i think atm hahahaha..and thats why im deleting the patch ASAP!

[Chef Matt]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

ahhahaha
thats what i think atm hahahaha..and thats why im deleting the patch ASAP!

I don't know about this one. My first 3 games post patch was right back to the usual rubberband games. I turned on comeback and I was leading 4-0 in the 3rd and I saved. Gonna resume later after work and see how it turns out.

[pbz06]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

One thing I noticed, is that when the "comeback" (I'll call it that for the sake of this thread, although I firmly believe it's more of an uber aggressive CPU that kicks in at any point and results in a chaotic inning where the confidence of your pitcher melts down etc.) happens, it's more or less due to the fact that your pitcher's pitches seem to always find the middle of the plate like in a tractor beam. I've been victim of this big inning regularly, and been looking at replays extensively and sure enough when I start getting pounded, it just seems like 90% of my pitches either get too much of the plate or are way off for a Ball.

With that said, has any of you guys tried turning up your User CONTROL all the way max to +10 ? Just to see how it plays out and if it helps against the CPU?

Just a suggestion. I'm going to play some games that way (with the rest at default).

[swaldo]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

One thing I noticed, is that when the "comeback" (I'll call it that for the sake of this thread, although I firmly believe it's more of an uber aggressive CPU that kicks in at any point and results in a chaotic inning where the confidence of your pitcher melts down etc.) happens, it's more or less due to the fact that your pitcher's pitches seem to always find the middle of the plate like in a tractor beam. I've been victim of this big inning regularly, and been looking at replays extensively and sure enough when I start getting pounded, it just seems like 90% of my pitches either get too much of the plate or are way off for a Ball.

With that said, has any of you guys tried turning up your User CONTROL all the way max to +10 ? Just to see how it plays out and if it helps against the CPU?

Just a suggestion. I'm going to play some games that way (with the rest at default).

I haven't tried that on AS or above. In veteran I felt I had pinpont control so outs seemed to easy to come by. Not sure how that will play out in higher levels and I look forward to your results.

[RunN1st]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

I haven't tried that on AS or above. In veteran I felt I had pinpont control so outs seemed to easy to come by. Not sure how that will play out in higher levels and I look forward to your results.

Love the Downing avatar! Good thing he never took roids.:wink:

[pbz06]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

I haven't tried that on AS or above. In veteran I felt I had pinpont control so outs seemed to easy to come by. Not sure how that will play out in higher levels and I look forward to your results.

I'll play on AS level. I should probably play a couple games with a bad pitcher and a couple games with a good pitcher to see if I can feel differences and if these meltdowns happen with Control at 10

Probably play against the same team in each situation...and also try against a bad team and a good team.

k, i'm off to play

brb

[cubs14]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

I was not a believer in the AI comeback until my last game..

I was winning 5 - 0 in the 6th inning, had 2 guys on for the brewers, ground ball to short Theriot throws the ball into the stands.

so now 5 -2 bot 7th 2 guys on and 2 outs, fly ball to fukudome guess the ball went through him some how, 2 runs scored.

so now bottom 11 winning 8-7

first and third 1 out ground ball hit to where the 2nd baseman should be playing but for some reason he wasnt there. he was playing a step or 2 from 2nd. i understand double play position, but he was way to far over..
so instead of a double play it is 8 -8 .

now bot 12

runner on 2nd 2 outs... I throw slider over inside corner some how it is a pass ball runner goes 3rd. hall hits ground ball to short routine play, i throw to first Lee is not on the base. not a bad throw, right to him, but he is off the base. game over

very aggrivating... I dont mind losing games, but when things I have no control over happen, something is wrong with the game.

if i gave up 3 hrs or bad pitching, it would be my fault...

[pbz06]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

Well my first game wasn't encouraging, you guys would laugh, lol.

I was St. Louis (Wainright) hosting the Pirates (Karstens).

I scraped together a hit and a 2-run bomb with Pujols for the early 2-0 lead.

Stays that way basically until the top of the 8th, at this point I had a fresh reliever (Motte) and warming up 2 others.

As I feared, one of those innings happened where I just throw meatballs over the plate no matter what I do. My Confidence disappeared (literally) after the first batter knocked a laser single. I didn't even want to chance it, so I bring in Miller to face their lefty (Laroche). Ball, Ball...SMACK....DOUBLE opposite field, 2nd and 3rd now still no outs.

Sigh. Now it's still not the "comeback" thing in my mind, since these innings happen whether I'm ahead, tied, or behind. I always have that one inning that got away and it was happening once again before my eyes and I knew I couldn't do anything to stop it.

Mound visit. Confidence is somehow already at like 20%. Doesn't really matter what I throw now. If it's a breaking pitch it will be a passed ball. If I raise it a tad, it will hang and be smacked. I aim for the corner low and away with the fastball......tractor beam gets a hold of it and Moss smacks it for a laser single and ties the game.

Eventually I get two out until McClouth decides to take me deep on yet another hanging curveball (this time from Reyes).

I lose 3-2. I wasn't able to muster any real threats after the 1st inning. Once Karstens got his confidence up, it was coasting time as usual.

Sigh.

Again, my final stats and boxscore look good, but I always (and I mean always) when I lose it's because that one inning that got away and I can't do anything to stop it. It's almost always a 3-spot too. I've been talking about my 3-spot theory for the longest time in other threads, heh.

[swaldo]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

Thanks for the update PBZ, so it's back to the drawing board.

I just finished my 2nd game with opponents clutch at 99. I won this one 5-2. Pretty much sailed through it, I can't remember having the yellow release point on the meter expanded for so long. I was really pitching filthy stuff. Changeups would drop at the last second and appeared unhittable. Santana pitched 7 and gave up 2 in the 3rd inning.

There was a ball that went through my 1B glove in the 8th inning and another error in the 9th. This time I was able to close the door though. The ball that went through the glove was a tough play, he had to reach high to try and get the ball so I can let that one slide.

[AWS88]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

Just played my first game with CPU Comeback ON,HOF Difficulty, all sliders at default.

Braves vs. Marlins (I chose this matchup because in multiple games with the marlins, they ALWAYS crush my pitching after I get a lead.)

In the 4th inning I built up a 5-0 lead, then started simming my at bats.

The final line was
Braves 8-8-0
Marlins 2-9-0

In the 6th they scored 2 off of me, but didn't feel forced. They hit pitches that were left right in the middle of the plate (due to Lowe running out of energy)

After 7.1 innings of work, I took Lowe out of the game, and let my bullpen finish them off with no trouble what so ever.

I left Lowe in longer than I should, to see how they would hit off of him when he hardly had any energy left. As I said, They got a few hits, but it was nothing like I had seen with CPU Comeback OFF.

Of course, this was only one game, but pitching wise, it was probably the most fun I have had since buying The Show.

Just for the record, this was also the first win I have EVER got with Derek Lowe. For some reason, I just can NOT pitch with him.

[bigjake62505]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

I have only played around 20 games with the Pirates and they do not have any starting pitchers that are lights out everytime. What I have noticed is around the 4th-5th inning (second time through lineup) you better mix up your pitches. If not you will get rocked. I do not care who you have pitching. If you continue to throw the same pitches you used to get these guys out some body will catch you slipping. Also when you get up 0-2, 1-2 you better throw some balls to try to get these guys to chase out of the zone.

[jpup]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

oh boy, i didnt want to bring this up, but was this before or after the pacth...?

I haven't d/l'ed the patch. I've played about 80 games in my season and after a while, you just figure out how to play the AI. I still haven't figured out how to keep them from hitting the long ball as I lead the league, or close to it, in homers allowed. I was 14-12 in June and have won 4 of 5 and also won the last 3 series. I took 2 of 3 from Cleveland in Cleveland. They lead the league in hitting. It's all about pitching. It's a lot harder than in the past.

I though the rubberband was there, but I don't subscribe to that theory anymore.

[swaldo]

Re: The Comeback AI thread

Here are the stats of my 10 game clutch ratings test:

5 games played with opponent clutch ratings adjusted to 0.
5 games played with opponents clutch ratings adjusted to 99.

The conditions were:

All Star level, default sliders, auto fielding on, variable umps off, comeback OFF.

Me: American League All Stars

CPU - Detroit Tigers default roster with clutch ratings adjusted as noted above.

Ervin Santana started every game and was taken out in the 5-7th inning at the first sign of trouble. I used the same lineup against each other in the same stadium (Detroit night game with clear skies.) The same relievers were used when possible.

BLUE NUMERS BELOW ARE STATS COMPILED FROM THE 5 GAMES WITH OPPONENTS CLUTCH AT 0.

RED NUMBERS BELOW ARE STATS COMPILED FROM THE 5 GAMES WITH OPPONENTS CLUTCH AT 99.

Game 1: Won 10-1 LOST 4-3
Game 2: Won 5-2 WON 5-2
Game 3: Won 7-0 WON 7-1
Game 4: Won 7-2 WON 7-1
Game 5: Won 8-7 LOST 6-3

Total Runs: 37-12 25-14

HERE IS MY PITCHING STATS AND DETROIT'S OFFENSIVE NUMBERS AGAINST MY PITCHING...

ERA: 2.00 2.45
OPP BATTING AVERAGE: .251 .251
OPP SLUGGING %: .297 .371

IP: 45 44
At Bats: 175 175
Hits: 44 44
Runs: 12 14
Earned Runs: 10 12
BB: 13 5
SO: 32 38
2B: 5 7
3B: 0 1
HR: 1 4
GIDP: 7 4
HBP: 1 1
SB: 1 1
ERRORS: 5 6

BATTING AVG: RUNNERS IN SCORING POSITION: .193 .222
AB RISP: 31 36
HITS: 6 8
BB: 7 (probably 3-4 were intentional) 2
SO: 7 5
GIDP: 2 3

TOTAL MEN LEFT ON BASE: 39 34

In conclusion it is my opinion that clutch ratings are not the cause of the "comeback" issue. There doesn't seem to be a big difference overall whether the players have low or high clutch ratings. My guess is the clutch rating only works in limited situations. Ironically I had the exact same amount of at bats and hits but with clutch 99 there were bigger hits - 4 HR's as compared to 1 with clutch zero. In the 5th (clutch 99) game my starter Santana went down injured in the 3rd inning. I had to use a couple middle relievers (which I hadn't used at all during the other games) and they got banged up over 3 innings while I was adjusting to their stuff.

That's partly why the slugging % was bigger with clutch at 99. I wish I would've turned off injuries because the stats probably would've been closer overall if Santana had pitched those 3 innings. I was really locked in with him, serving up more strike outs and less base on balls with clutch 99 which was surprising.

My team also scored 12 fewer runs and lost 2 (clutch 99) games for whatever reason but it is a small sample. Overall the games felt pretty much the same, when I was in a jam I didn't have that "sweaty palm" feeling because hitters had 99 clutch. I just pitched my game and got out of most problems just as I did with clutch at zero.

After the first 5 games I broke the stats down when leading, tied and trailing in a previous post. However, after looking at the overall numbers I'm not sure if it's necessary to do that again.