Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

[aga11ah]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

I've had 2 doubles go over the OF's head in all the games i've played.

when it happens I just sit there with a OMFG face in total shock. it really feels like a miracle took place when the OF'ers dont catch it.

[uraz3r0]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

This thread has been something I've noticed and been complaining about since '08. They've actually made it better I think, but now im getting such good hit variety, that I don't mind if they leave it simply because im getting realistic results anyway.

[baseball66]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

How many doubles are actually hit over outfielders heads in a real Mlb game on avg.? I would guess not that many, maybe 1 every few games, then some you might see a couple.

[jmik58]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

The only adjustments I make are for me as you can't for the CPU. I move my third baseman over to the left and I play my outfielders at different depths.

Imo defensive adjustments are not slider material. Freeing up the current defensive alignment system where you can highlight and physically move fielders(not pre-set alignments) and making it available outside of the game so you can preset it, is more then ample.

I think that would be a great idea/addition to be able to highlight and move the fielders. Any type of option to adjust the fielder depth would be sufficient.

Also, I'm seeing comments from some who are saying they see great hit variety and think that maybe the number of hits over outfielder's heads isn't something that happens that often in real life.

I have to agree completely that I see a great variety of hit variety. And I know that not that many balls are hit over the head of outfielders.

However, the bigger point is that WHEN a ball is hit hard into the gap or over the head of a fielder that is aligned properly (depth), the fielder's in The Show are able to catch a ball that would not be caught in real life.

The hit variety in The Show is fantastic. Meaning that you see almost every type of hit in the game that you see in real life. But, what good is it to have variety that is lifelike, if you don't get the same results of that same hit?

And keep in mind the main point here. We can tell from looking that the depth of outfielders is too deep in Normal and Shallow. And the devs have confirmed that this is true.

So for the sake of realism, how about a change via a patch for this year's game. Or at least think about it for next year's game.

I don't want to continue repeating myself, but I get the feeling that too many don't understand how misalignment completely changes the dynamics of gameplay.

If EA Sports saw that offenses were able to pass the ball deep too easily and they adjusted the alignment of Safeties to be deeper than in real life to compensate, would no one care? And then we wouldn't see realistic deep ball completions, while the underneath routes would be impossible to stop.

People have a fit if someone's wrist band isn't in the game, but this IS the game.

[Cozar]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

Here's my thoughts from playing RTTS CF:

1. At my starting speed (65) it was way to easy to run to the back wall and catch deep hit gappers.

2. Shallow depth is so far back it's useless to prevent a run scoring from third (I've only actually been told to play shallow once, though, so my sample size is small).

3. Moving fielders closer to "normal" depth would all but eliminate the ability of baserunners to go 1st to 3rd (and might unrealistically increase the number of outfield assists at home plate).

Based upon these observations, I think while depth might be a problem, outfielder speed contributes to the problem. I suspect that the problem might be the size of the player pixels. I feel like the outfielders are too large in proportion to the size of the outfield. As a result, their stride length is too long and they cover ground too quickly.

[Jdurg]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

Funny. I just got done playing a RttS game out in Colorado, and Joey Votto was up to bat. He RIPPED one to right center field and Brad Hawpe took a bad route to the ball and it ended up going right over his head as he tried to reach up to grab it. Ball rolled to the wall where the center fielder picked it up but Votto got into 3rd with a Stand-Up Triple. That was great to see. Just funny that it happened shortly after I got done reading this thread.

[FluffyTonka]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

How many doubles are actually hit over outfielders heads in a real Mlb game on avg.? I would guess not that many, maybe 1 every few games, then some you might see a couple.

I'm not sure about the MLB ... But in my A grade game last night, there were 5 total for both teams.

It was a cool dry night, so the ball was exploding off the bat, but still ...

[jmik58]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

Here's my thoughts from playing RTTS CF:

1. At my starting speed (65) it was way to easy to run to the back wall and catch deep hit gappers.

2. Shallow depth is so far back it's useless to prevent a run scoring from third (I've only actually been told to play shallow once, though, so my sample size is small).

3. Moving fielders closer to "normal" depth would all but eliminate the ability of baserunners to go 1st to 3rd (and might unrealistically increase the number of outfield assists at home plate).

Based upon these observations, I think while depth might be a problem, outfielder speed contributes to the problem. I suspect that the problem might be the size of the player pixels. I feel like the outfielders are too large in proportion to the size of the outfield. As a result, their stride length is too long and they cover ground too quickly.

Interestingly enough, I've wondered about your last point in that it seemed at times that players were too large in proportion to the outfield. But I can't prove this. What I show, however, is that the players are playing too deep. If you haven't seen it, look through the first couple pages of this thread for the screen shots showing this.

Regarding the statement that's in bold above...

If having players stand in their appropriate places causes too many runners to be thrown out on 1st to 3rds, and at home...then the problem is with runner speed, fielder speed, or fielder arm strength. Those should be compensated with sliders. Don't mess with alignment!

There is absolutely no reason that a player's alignment should be altered to help gameplay. Alignment should NEVER be compromised.

It wouldn't be accepted in any sports game and shouldn't be in this one.

So if baserunners are stealing bases too easily in The Show, an acceptable adjustment would be to make the base paths 100 feet instead of 90??? No way would that happen!

But that's basically what I keep hearing regarding the thought process and philosophy behind defending the status quo.

As for the RTTS comments above. Keep in mind that when in the minors you are playing against players who are lacking in speed so you will see more doubles. But again, the point isn't that there are a lack of doubles. The point is that there are hits that should not be caught by an outfielder in a normal alignment, because the "normal" alignment is too deep for what is realistic.

[JT30]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

Baserunner speed, Arm Strength, Fielder Speed and the batted ball speed are not balanced correctly in this game.

Balls reach the OF way too fastl. I hope the patch can correct batted ball speed.. or at least increase ball/surface friction.

[jmik58]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

Baserunner speed, Arm Strength, Fielder Speed and the batted ball speed are not balanced correctly in this game.

Balls reach the OF way too fastl. I hope the patch can correct batted ball speed.. or at least increase ball/surface friction.

It's interesting that you notice the ball getting to the outfielders too fast, especially when the outfielders are playing deeper than they should be in Normal and Shallow. In other words, the fielders are too deep AND the ball is still getting their too fast.

I think we need to see how the game plays when the outfielders are lined up in the appropriate places (depth).

From there, then we can tell how to adjust arm strength, fielder speed, fielder reaction speed, batted ball speed, baserunner speed, etc.

You bring up another great point about ball friction. It does seem at times that the field is made out of concrete or asphalt and the ball just skates.

However, that is something that can be adjusted with a slider if someone doesn't like it. You can't do that with alignment. And I think we/the devs should focus on fixing alignment as it's one of the basic building blocks of accurate gameplay.

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

I haven't read every post in the thread, but I really appreciate you finding the heart of the matter, so everyone isn;t wasting time with the OF speed slider as if were the fix.

I do notice from 35 games played that there is NO penalty for having slow/poor OF'ers. In real MLB Adam Dunn costs his team as many fielding runs and he provides at the plate. It's one of the breakthroughs of UZR and WAR values.

But, on MLB10, Jack Cust and Jason Kubel will play similarly to Ichiro and Gutierrez in terms of the balls they get to. I have Pierre in LF and TCQ in RF, and they both get to the same balls. MOF, in 35 games, I haven't had any ball that stayed in the park NOT be caught by TCQ. Heck, in MLB10 Jermaine Dye wouldn't even be a liability, and he has been the worst AL OF in terms of UZR in the last 3 years.

It is my strong preference for teams in video games to be heavily penalized for putting "piano draggers" in the OF just to have their bat in the lineup. In the NL, this is typically the NL's version of the DH, commonly referred to as the "left fielder". If you choose to play with a "defense first" type team like the Mariners, etc you should have a big advantage in the field. On MLB10 you do not.

Lots og guys make the running overthe shoulder catch at the track on MLB10, I have yet to see a guy play one over their head, bouncing and then deflecting off the wall. Even Garrett Anderson could run one down in MLB10, and Brian Giles, and ...

The spacing was similar in HIgh Heat. I remember the OF would play a certain distance from the wall ... so when you played at the Polo Grounds with their unique CF wall, the CF would stand 400 feet from home plate and give up singles in front of him on routine fly balls all day long. It is likely something similar her, where there is not enough disparity between deep, normal, and shallow.

Very good work.

[ParisB]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

Guys, I understand the problem(s), but putting Fielder Speed at 0 fixes a lot of the complaints in terms of outfielders reaching balls.

I see PLENTY of looping gappers fall in for doubles or triples, and it's even more noticeable with slow fielders. Ichiro's speed stands out more etc.

The ball speed is greatly improved in realism with Solid Hits at 0...there's an issue with the game being too forgiving with its contact zone for squaring up a ball which results in way too many lasers and rocket singles that squirt around on the grass.

Reducing Solid Hits to 0 has given me a much more wider variety of hits, dribblers, choppers, and hits that seem to have different kinds of rotations on the ball.

[jim416]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

Guys, I understand the problem(s), but putting Fielder Speed at 0 fixes a lot of the complaints in terms of outfielders reaching balls.

True, very true. Putting the slider to "0" does not mean they won't get to anything as the sliders are more subtle, but this is an easy fix. This also aids those runners going from first to third as you'll see them making it, or much closer plays at least. I've not seen the problem with first to third like some have said, but the above is a great fix for the perceived problem. Had a ball hit over my left fielders head yesterday. Let me find the vid as I saved it and I"ll post it. It DOES happen.

The sliders are there for a reason. One slider adjustment may not have the same result for every gamer as we are all different when it comes to the controller. Take some time to experiment and don't necessarily look for someone else to solve a problem in your game as their fix just might not fit you.

[NiteLordz]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

I am all for realism, and the alignment depth, however, i don't see it happening this year. i just finished a game of boston vs kansas city, and i hit four doubles in the game. 3 to the left center gap, and one down the line.

i play with default sliders on all star, the only adjustments i have made are for pitch speed ( 8 ) and pickoffs ( 0 ).

here is a movie maker of two of the doubles i hit

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the third double, was a result of the computer taking a bad line to the ball ( never seen this one happen before )

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[ParisB]

Re: Fixing God-like Outfielder Ability

Nice video NiteLordz. I see outfielders take bad routes too, it's actually great. I had one the other day in Arlington where i shot a low liner in that right center gap. The center fielder went to try and cut it off before it went to the wall so he can hold me to a single, but he missed it because the angle wasn't there and he was a hair too slow. The right fielder backed it up correctly and was heading towards the wall anyway.

I think Fielder Speed at 0 and Solid Hits at 0 gives me a good balance and feels right in terms of gameplay and results (along with my other sliders).

Of course, the alignment/depth issues are there, but those concerns can be alleviated with some slider tweaks.

We all want and expect the perfect game, but realistically we are playing a video game so we just have to keep that in mind every time we see something "funny" that our first reaction is to complain about.