Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

[Perfect Zero]

Re: Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

I like how you're using BS sabremetrics as your reasoning behind that. There's something called actually watching a game. Besides, even people who put faith into that sabremetrics crap say that you can't get an "accurate" reading from UZR unless you use three years worth of data. Just throwing that out there.

Sabrmetrics are just as valid as stats like batting average and slugging percentage, and it's a heck of a lot better than that popularity contest known as the "Gold Glove" award. Heck, even Michael Young has a Gold Glove at shortstop and he has HORRID defense. That's why he isn't even close to playing third or short.

Besides, if you want to go by a longer stretch, Jeter has a lifetime total of -42.4 UZR. Wanna average that out? It goes to -4.71. Wanna get past Jeter at short? Either hit it to the left or right of him, or get him into a situation where he has to make a split decision.

Watching a player can say something about him, but any given player at short might see three to four plays that directly affect them per game. Sabrmetrics takes into account what you don't see throughout the season, and what you may miss through tinted glasses.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

I noticed Rick Ankiel was top three in homers for the first few months with the Nationals. I know that's not possible. Watching him in a Braves' uniform last year, the guy could barely hit .200 and had little power.

I agree with this: Ankiel in the game has a high power rating which I don't really get.

[thegreatusurper512]

Re: Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

LOL someone making fun of sabermetrics. Glad I found someone not to listen to.

[Doormat]

Re: Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

Denard Span lol

[Black59Razr]

Re: Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

Ya, Brett Gardner is a beast. As stated before in other posts, I love Bud Norris. I get about 7 innings, 5 hits, 2 runs, 0 walks, and 8 strikeouts everytime. Josh Fields is also a stud platoon player vLHP.

[fullmetal2405]

Re: Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

Sabrmetrics are just as valid as stats like batting average and slugging percentage, and it's a heck of a lot better than that popularity contest known as the "Gold Glove" award. Heck, even Michael Young has a Gold Glove at shortstop and he has HORRID defense. That's why he isn't even close to playing third or short.

Besides, if you want to go by a longer stretch, Jeter has a lifetime total of -42.4 UZR. Wanna average that out? It goes to -4.71. Wanna get past Jeter at short? Either hit it to the left or right of him, or get him into a situation where he has to make a split decision.

Watching a player can say something about him, but any given player at short might see three to four plays that directly affect them per game. Sabrmetrics takes into account what you don't see throughout the season, and what you may miss through tinted glasses.

I will give you the lifetime UZR, which negates my argument of looking at multiple years. Doesn't mean I put a slight bit of faith into sabre, though. The only Sabremetric stat I think has any value whatsoever is WHIP. Everything else? Utter nonsense to me. Sabremetrics are turning a sport into a numbers game. Looking at a list of numbers tells you a lot less than watching a game does.

As for Jeter specifically: Is he the best shortstop in the game? No. Should he have won a gold glove last year? No. Is he the worst shortstop in the league? No. He has indeed lost quite a bit of range. I'll agree he can't make the plays to his left very well these days, and he's lost a bit to his right, but not much. Going back a few years I don't think anyone was better at going to their right. Again, he's lost it a bit as he's gotten older.

And to the person who decided not to listen to me because I hate sabremetrics? Works for me.

Really not much more to say about this. I'll never change anyone else's opinion about sabre, and no one else will change mine.

And back on topic:

Denard Span, yes I hadn't noticed him until he came up to bat just now with a +.600 BA and 3 HRs. And I haven't yet seen Ankiel put up big power numbers but I did notice in a exhibition game that his ratings seemed a bit inflated.

[RowdyBusch]

Re: Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

Granted Jeter isn't as good as he was, he's still Derek F'n Jeter.

If you had the opportunity to have Jeter on your team, despite whatever buffalosabremetics says, and you say "I don't want him. He sucks." Get your head checked.

[xjoey420x]

Re: Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

i would not want jeter on my team his defense has never been anything more then just average. in his prime i would of took him for his bat but at this point in his career he is just not that good anymore at the best an average player.

[thegreatusurper512]

Re: Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

Granted Jeter isn't as good as he was, he's still Derek F'n Jeter.

If you had the opportunity to have Jeter on your team, despite whatever buffalosabremetics says, and you say "I don't want him. He sucks." Get your head checked.

"I don't want him. He sucks." Well, actually, he's just an average shortstop that has been promoted by confirmation bias, considering all of his postseason (saber) statistics are worse than the players that he is loved over. He was just around a bunch of other good players at the right time and his team won multiple championships. The guy is worth no more than what Marco Scutaro makes.

[Nick23]

Re: Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

"I don't want him. He sucks." Well, actually, he's just an average shortstop that has been promoted by confirmation bias, considering all of his postseason (saber) statistics are worse than the players that he is loved over. He was just around a bunch of other good players at the right time and his team won multiple championships. The guy is worth no more than what Marco Scutaro makes.

His 2935 hits say otherwise...

[thegreatusurper512]

Re: Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

Citing a cumulative stat that is large because you hit leadoff for years and no matter how bad you were you wouldn't get demoted? No thanks. The guy isn't that great at getting on base and has no power. Singles hitters that play no defense are worthless in my opinion. Jeter is one of those guys who had a team that won in spite of him, not because of him.

[DGuinta1]

Re: Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

Maybe they are having career couple of years.

[Sunjah_Khan]

Re: Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

i would not want jeter on my team his defense has never been anything more then just average. in his prime i would of took him for his bat but at this point in his career he is just not that good anymore at the best an average player.

Jeter is a great player. No Yankee fan, but to have the most hits ever as a Yankee = great. Yes, he is declining, but all of them do. To say he was never a good or great defender is just wrong. I hate the NYY, but you have to give the guy credit for how incredible he is/was.

By the way, please don't tell me that IRL is "in-real-life" and the poster was just too lazy to actually spell it. Please. If this country is ever invaded, people will probably scream GA,IDWTFRN,SYSL from their lazy-boy (it stands for "Go away, I don't want to fight right now, so you should leave").

Unbelievable...

[Perfect Zero]

Re: Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

Guys, baseball is a numbers game. That's why we look at batting average, walks and hits per innings pitched, earned run average, slugging percentage, on base percentage, need I go on? Sabrmetrics is a way to stop looking at the game as random happenstance and to actually look at the larger picture.

I got a lot of flak from Rangers fans around me when I suggested that Young be benched for Elvis Andrus. I got things from "Michael is a team player" to "Michael moved to shortstop after playing so well at second" and everything in between. The next year, Andrus shows up and becomes the human highlight machine, showing Rangers fans that there is such thing as defense at the six position.

I got flak from people when I suggested that Young be benched for the possibility of Adrian Beltre. "Beltre only plays well when his contract is up" and "Michael is the ultimate teammate" came coming toward me. So far this year, Beltre has put a plug at third that has been missing since the likes of Dean Palmer (and even that's stretching it).

When you look away from stats like the ones from sabrmetrics, you shut a large door that could help your team go a long way. With great defense from Andrus and Beltre, balls are less likely to dribble out into the outfield and pitchers are going to have fewer pitches to pitch. When you take out sabrmetrics, you don't realize that Beltre has had plenty of years where he's hit very hard outs and has played in places (i.e. Safeco Field) where he is not well suited.

In the game, Young and Jeter need to have their defense turned down; Declining players playing just past or way past their prime.

[RowdyBusch]

Re: Players that are not good IRL but good in the game?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Jeter is the best SS in the game right now.

Also, to the poster who said his hits are inflated by him batting leadoff.. Jeter has only led off about 6 years of his 16 year career...